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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Overgassed! (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 8/4/2016 2:33:08 AM EDT
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I put this together for a home defense gun.
It has proven to be unreliable in it's current state. I want this gun to be run 100% suppressed. Rifle: BCM complete lower, H2 buffer, standard spring. BCM 11.5" lightweight complete upper. (FSB shaved) Specwar K 5.56 Less than 500 rounds and it's choked twice. Would an H3 buffer cure it? Stiffer spring? A5 buffer system? A buddy of mine shooting it, pretty slowly, last weekend. 
The rifle choking in slow motion.
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what ammo?
it looks a little under gassed due to ejection pattern but I am only guessing as the video showed only a couple rounds being ejected. if you are using decent ammo, then try buffers to solve it, do you have a heavier buffer to try or a standard carbine buffer to swap in? maybe an O-ring extractor upgrade? |
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Quoted:
what ammo? it looks a little under gassed due to ejection pattern but I am only guessing as the video showed only a couple rounds being ejected. if you are using decent ammo, then try buffers to solve it, do you have a heavier buffer to try or a standard carbine buffer to swap in? maybe an O-ring extractor upgrade? AE XM193 90 round packs with the stripper clips. It ejects 5.56 pressure ammo at nearly 1 o'clock. |
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Increasing the spring stiffness does not slow the cyclic rate to any notable degree.
You could try going with a somewhat heavier buffer but the real problem, and solution, is excessive gas. You need a smaller gas port on the barrel, that one is obviously excessive. |
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Increasing the spring stiffness does not slow the cyclic rate to any notable degree. You could try going with a somewhat heavier buffer but the real problem, and solution, is excessive gas. You need a smaller gas port on the barrel, that one is obviously excessive. Well there really isn't a fix for that. Can't really make a large hole smaller. Perhaps a bolt carrier that vents more gas? LMT enhanced? If I remember correctly, the gas port measured at .071" on my calipers. Not the most ideal way to measure, I know. |
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I'd guess a Sprinco blue spring with your current H2 would fix the issue.
Maybe a Sprinco blue spring and an H3 if the spring alone didn't do the trick. Worst case, a Sprinco red spring with your current H2. Couldn't imagine you needing a Sprinco red and H3 with a factory 11.5" BCM barrel and can. |
| MicroMoa Govna Gas block which has a nice adjustable sliding plate for adjusting gas settings. You can get blank plates and drill them out as needed for the gas port size reduction you want. The SLR Rifleworks adjustable gas block is nice but requires a tool to adjust your gas settings. |
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Well there really isn't a fix for that. Can't really make a large hole smaller. Perhaps a bolt carrier that vents more gas? LMT enhanced? If I remember correctly, the gas port measured at .071" on my calipers. Not the most ideal way to measure, I know. Quoted:
Quoted:
Increasing the spring stiffness does not slow the cyclic rate to any notable degree. You could try going with a somewhat heavier buffer but the real problem, and solution, is excessive gas. You need a smaller gas port on the barrel, that one is obviously excessive. Well there really isn't a fix for that. Can't really make a large hole smaller. Perhaps a bolt carrier that vents more gas? LMT enhanced? If I remember correctly, the gas port measured at .071" on my calipers. Not the most ideal way to measure, I know. Adjustable gas block does make the port smaller inside the block, constricting the gas before entering the gas tube. Try that. Get one that is easily accessed through your rail, as it seems your setup is especially sensitive, being undergassed with some ammo and overgassed with full power 5.56. That way you can tune it for the ammo you are shooting. Suppressor will demand that you turn the gas block down. I doubt you can do all this with buffer weight changes. |
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Quoted:
Well there really isn't a fix for that. Can't really make a large hole smaller. Perhaps a bolt carrier that vents more gas? LMT enhanced? If I remember correctly, the gas port measured at .071" on my calipers. Not the most ideal way to measure, I know. Quoted:
Quoted:
Increasing the spring stiffness does not slow the cyclic rate to any notable degree. You could try going with a somewhat heavier buffer but the real problem, and solution, is excessive gas. You need a smaller gas port on the barrel, that one is obviously excessive. Well there really isn't a fix for that. Can't really make a large hole smaller. Perhaps a bolt carrier that vents more gas? LMT enhanced? If I remember correctly, the gas port measured at .071" on my calipers. Not the most ideal way to measure, I know. you just need to restrict the gas; several ways to do that. You can have the barrel welded and redrilled by someone like ADCO, you can install and adjustable gas block or drill/tap and use a set screw on the existing one you have, or just replace the gas tube with one of these |
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Swapping the gas block is not an option.
I thought about drilling and tapping for a set screw in the shaved FSB. The carriers that bleed extra gas are pricey, but it seems to be the best option if I don't want to spend a bunch on different springs and buffers. I've also thought about swapping out the receiver extension for the A5 system. |
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AE XM193 90 round packs with the stripper clips. It ejects 5.56 pressure ammo at nearly 1 o'clock. Quoted:
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what ammo? it looks a little under gassed due to ejection pattern but I am only guessing as the video showed only a couple rounds being ejected. if you are using decent ammo, then try buffers to solve it, do you have a heavier buffer to try or a standard carbine buffer to swap in? maybe an O-ring extractor upgrade? AE XM193 90 round packs with the stripper clips. It ejects 5.56 pressure ammo at nearly 1 o'clock. There is a craze to blame ''over gassed'' on everything and belief that heavy buffers fix all problems  .
Rather than falling for the craze, maybe use a standard buffer or lite buffer for the gun and see if it works properly with the intended parts first. Under gassed or the carrier could very well be the issue. |
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There is a craze to blame ''over gassed'' on everything and belief that heavy buffers fix all problems .
Rather than falling for the craze, maybe use a standard buffer or lite buffer for the gun and see if it works properly with the intended parts first. Under gassed or the carrier could very well be the issue. Quoted:
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what ammo? it looks a little under gassed due to ejection pattern but I am only guessing as the video showed only a couple rounds being ejected. if you are using decent ammo, then try buffers to solve it, do you have a heavier buffer to try or a standard carbine buffer to swap in? maybe an O-ring extractor upgrade? AE XM193 90 round packs with the stripper clips. It ejects 5.56 pressure ammo at nearly 1 o'clock. There is a craze to blame ''over gassed'' on everything and belief that heavy buffers fix all problems .
Rather than falling for the craze, maybe use a standard buffer or lite buffer for the gun and see if it works properly with the intended parts first. Under gassed or the carrier could very well be the issue. Honestly, I would try this first. But BCM isn't exactly known to be undergassed. |
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IMO a carbine buffer would exacerbate the issue, that said I do agree that it could be anything really not necessarily overgassing. But I think that's the issue here.
There's plenty of evidence for heavier buffers being beneficial, Mike Pannone wrote a great article about his time with the M4 and objective evidence about his findings. Ive had a lot of luck replicating his methods across multiple rifles to increase reliability of the system. OP you can get the heaviest buffer you can find then swap weights between it and a carbine to find that sweet spot. If this is happening with an H2 I would definitely go up in weight if it were me. I don't think BCM ports are as small as people say, though I've never mic'd one (A2 FSB's for me). All I know is that my 11.5 and 14.5 middy both run Tula with an H buffer. There's a guy, Dave_M, who had a BCM SBR with a can that was crazy overgassed though it wasn't malfing. He's on a few boards there's a thread floating around about it. |
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Try an O-ring on the extractor first. It looked to me like the case slipped off the extractor. That is probably a symptom of excessive bolt speed/early extraction, but if the O-ring fixes it, so what?
An O-ring is a super cheap, super simple 1st step. I wouldn't mess with springs and buffers until I'd at least tried that. |
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Well there really isn't a fix for that. Can't really make a large hole smaller. Perhaps a bolt carrier that vents more gas? LMT enhanced? If I remember correctly, the gas port measured at .071" on my calipers. Not the most ideal way to measure, I know. Quoted:
Quoted:
Increasing the spring stiffness does not slow the cyclic rate to any notable degree. You could try going with a somewhat heavier buffer but the real problem, and solution, is excessive gas. You need a smaller gas port on the barrel, that one is obviously excessive. Well there really isn't a fix for that. Can't really make a large hole smaller. Perhaps a bolt carrier that vents more gas? LMT enhanced? If I remember correctly, the gas port measured at .071" on my calipers. Not the most ideal way to measure, I know. You need a set of pin gauges to properly measure the gas port. .071" is big for a gun that you intend to run suppressed all the time. Black River Tactical makes a gas port insert that reduces gas port size. http://www.blackrivertactical.com/concrete5/customtune-gas-port/ You could try an H3 buffer or one of the very heavy buffers from Slash, but my experience with one of them is you're just adding a bigger reciprocating mass to the equation with little effect on the real problem. |
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Quoted: There is a craze to blame ''over gassed'' on everything and belief that heavy buffers fix all problems .Rather than falling for the craze, maybe use a standard buffer or lite buffer for the gun and see if it works properly with the intended parts first. Under gassed or the carrier could very well be the issue. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: what ammo? it looks a little under gassed due to ejection pattern but I am only guessing as the video showed only a couple rounds being ejected. if you are using decent ammo, then try buffers to solve it, do you have a heavier buffer to try or a standard carbine buffer to swap in? maybe an O-ring extractor upgrade? AE XM193 90 round packs with the stripper clips. It ejects 5.56 pressure ammo at nearly 1 o'clock. There is a craze to blame ''over gassed'' on everything and belief that heavy buffers fix all problems .Rather than falling for the craze, maybe use a standard buffer or lite buffer for the gun and see if it works properly with the intended parts first. Under gassed or the carrier could very well be the issue. |
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In case you decide to shop for a gas block, let me save you some time:
http://slrrifleworks.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=124 Funny thing is Amazon sells these. |
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Quoted: MicroMoa Govna Gas block which has a nice adjustable sliding plate for adjusting gas settings. You can get blank plates and drill them out as needed for the gas port size reduction you want. The SLR Rifleworks adjustable gas block is nice but requires a tool to adjust your gas settings. |
| I would consider an adjustable gas block. That way you can adapt your pressure when you do not have your suppressor on. The new Bleed-off system by Superlative Arms was quieter than the restrictive adjustment with a suppressor on with the piston kit. I have not tested it with the DI yet but suspect it will prove to be quieter also. It is not that big of a deal to remove your shaved gas block and replace it. |
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For those of you acting like heavier buffers and stiffer springs don't fix overgassing issues, maybe you should read through the very popular Mk18/CQBR thread around here. DD's commercial 10.3" barrels (which many people have in their Mk18s/CQBRs) ship with large ports to help overcompensate for the lack of dwell time in a shorter barrel, and help with reliability across a wide range of ammo in that setup. When you add a can to that setup, and with 5.56 pressure ammo in particular, they can then become very overgassed. Know how many people address that issue? By simply adding a Sprinco Blue or Red Spring, and an H2 or H3 buffer...and bam, problem solved.
OP, I will say again, one of the formulas listed above will fix your issue. ETA - I'd say a Blue spring with an H3 is all you'd need. |
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In order: Adjustable gas block WAR upper adjustable gas key / carrier Heavier buffer / springs This would be my suggestion. Also I forget the maker but it was just posted recently a gas block that is adjustable and bleedable maybe someone can post info about it. |
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OP has already said an adjustable GB is not an option. Though I'd agree, it is a great route to go.
I own 3 DD 10.3s with the larger ports that can get real gassy with a can and 5.56 ammo. I have a MicroMOA Govnah adjustable GB on one, and it's arguably my all time favorite AR to shoot. I run a Sprinco Blue with H3 buffer in the other two, and they are noticeably softer shooting and smoother cycling than they first were with the original setup of a standard spring and H2 buffer. |
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My first thing would be the gas block. Better to stop the issue at the source in a way that you don't have to swap parts. A block like the Odin adjustable is an easy to adjust one, and it has a detent for 'clicks', so you could know how many clicks off to set it for unsurpressed. But ya, this way you don't choke it when unsurpressed or change ammo. Also, smoothen out recoil a bit and save excessive wear on parts.
Special springs are the last thing I would do. Don't even much like the buffer swap. The extractor spring upgrades people mention aren't really fixing the problem. It's more of a crutch to mask problems. |
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even in slo-mo it looks like that BCG is moving so fast it's bouncing off the back of the buffer tube and causing your problems.
Meaning: you're right, it's overgassed. It's cycling back too fast. A heavier buffer means more weight to push back which would increase dwell time but I don't see it slowing this down enough to fix your issue. As others have said, the gas is the problem. Treat the gas, not the other pieces. But, I can sympathize and understand that you can't shrink a gas port and it's not as easy to change gas blocks. I would try a stiffer buffer spring as they're relatively cheap, and if you don't want to change the gasblock then I would consider something like the Gemtech suppressed BCG my 16" suppressed Recce was getting a lot of bolt bounce and causing malfunctions with an H buffer. Put a sprinco 'red' in there and it functions unsuppressed and suppressed now. |
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even in slo-mo it looks like that BCG is moving so fast it's bouncing off the back of the buffer tube and causing your problems. Meaning: you're right, it's overgassed. It's cycling back too fast. A heavier buffer means more weight to push back which would increase dwell time but I don't see it slowing this down enough to fix your issue. As others have said, the gas is the problem. Treat the gas, not the other pieces. But, I can sympathize and understand that you can't shrink a gas port and it's not as easy to change gas blocks. I would try a stiffer buffer spring as they're relatively cheap, and if you don't want to change the gasblock then I would consider something like the Gemtech suppressed BCG my 16" suppressed Recce was getting a lot of bolt bounce and causing malfunctions with an H buffer. Put a sprinco 'red' in there and it functions unsuppressed and suppressed now. Stiffer springs and heavier buffers aren't just bandaids. They flat out fix overgassing. There's always people around Arfcom with no personal experience on certain topics that just love to have flat out wrong opinions about them though. 
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Stiffer springs and heavier buffers aren't just bandaids. They flat out fix overgassing. There's always people around Arfcom with no personal experience on certain topics that just love to have flat out wrong opinions about them though. Quoted:
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even in slo-mo it looks like that BCG is moving so fast it's bouncing off the back of the buffer tube and causing your problems. Meaning: you're right, it's overgassed. It's cycling back too fast. A heavier buffer means more weight to push back which would increase dwell time but I don't see it slowing this down enough to fix your issue. As others have said, the gas is the problem. Treat the gas, not the other pieces. But, I can sympathize and understand that you can't shrink a gas port and it's not as easy to change gas blocks. I would try a stiffer buffer spring as they're relatively cheap, and if you don't want to change the gasblock then I would consider something like the Gemtech suppressed BCG my 16" suppressed Recce was getting a lot of bolt bounce and causing malfunctions with an H buffer. Put a sprinco 'red' in there and it functions unsuppressed and suppressed now. Stiffer springs and heavier buffers aren't just bandaids. They flat out fix overgassing. There's always people around Arfcom with no personal experience on certain topics that just love to have flat out wrong opinions about them though. A whole bunch of whom have posted in this thread. How can you watch that slow-mo video and suggest that the rifle isn't overgassed when suppressed? The suppressor's function is SUPPOSED to overgas the gun! I've toyed with the idea of chopping a 6920 barrel down to 11.5" and leaving the gas port. But that BCM upper fell in my lap on a trade. I chopped the FSB and added the KMR and suppressor mount. It's a slick little rifle. So I think I'll pick up an H3 buffer and one of those Springco springs. We'll see how that goes. The next step would be the LMT enhanced carrier. |
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A whole bunch of whom have posted in this thread. How can you watch that slow-mo video and suggest that the rifle isn't overgassed when suppressed? The suppressor's function is SUPPOSED to overgas the gun! I've toyed with the idea of chopping a 6920 barrel down to 11.5" and leaving the gas port. But that BCM upper fell in my lap on a trade. I chopped the FSB and added the KMR and suppressor mount. It's a slick little rifle. So I think I'll pick up an H3 buffer and one of those Springco springs. We'll see how that goes. The next step would be the LMT enhanced carrier. Quoted:
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even in slo-mo it looks like that BCG is moving so fast it's bouncing off the back of the buffer tube and causing your problems. Meaning: you're right, it's overgassed. It's cycling back too fast. A heavier buffer means more weight to push back which would increase dwell time but I don't see it slowing this down enough to fix your issue. As others have said, the gas is the problem. Treat the gas, not the other pieces. But, I can sympathize and understand that you can't shrink a gas port and it's not as easy to change gas blocks. I would try a stiffer buffer spring as they're relatively cheap, and if you don't want to change the gasblock then I would consider something like the Gemtech suppressed BCG my 16" suppressed Recce was getting a lot of bolt bounce and causing malfunctions with an H buffer. Put a sprinco 'red' in there and it functions unsuppressed and suppressed now. Stiffer springs and heavier buffers aren't just bandaids. They flat out fix overgassing. There's always people around Arfcom with no personal experience on certain topics that just love to have flat out wrong opinions about them though. A whole bunch of whom have posted in this thread. How can you watch that slow-mo video and suggest that the rifle isn't overgassed when suppressed? The suppressor's function is SUPPOSED to overgas the gun! I've toyed with the idea of chopping a 6920 barrel down to 11.5" and leaving the gas port. But that BCM upper fell in my lap on a trade. I chopped the FSB and added the KMR and suppressor mount. It's a slick little rifle. So I think I'll pick up an H3 buffer and one of those Springco springs. We'll see how that goes. The next step would be the LMT enhanced carrier. You can't watch that video and not know that rifle is overgassed. That's another obvious point. Know how many suppressed 5.56 ARs I've personally seen eject and cycle like that before they finally got tamed with an adjustable GB, or stiffer spring/heavier buffer? Literally dozens. A combination of a Sprinco Blue or Red with an H2 or H3 will without question fix your issue. |
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You may eventually come to the realization that hardly anybody sells a short barrel with a gas port diameter optimized for suppressors. Sad really. Yep. And the ones that just somewhat are, they can be finicky with non 5.56 pressure ammo without a can. Hence why most companies tend to keep the ports larger so they can function with any ammo with or without a can. They just figure the enduser can adjust accordingly if they want to run it dedicated suppressed. An adjustable gas block is obviously the best of both worlds. I like to know my rifles will cycle anything I feed it with or without a can. |
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You may eventually come to the realization that hardly anybody sells a short barrel with a gas port diameter optimized for suppressors. Sad really. Or even quality, standard pressure 5.56 ammunition. It's all set up for steel cased Wolf/Tula .223. The barrel was most likely overgassed even before adding the suppressor, which is always annoying to me. |
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http://suparms.com/collections/adjustable-gas-blocks-direct-impingement/products/750-adjustable-low-pro-clamp-on-gas-block-melonite-finish From this thread: I've got one ordered. I like the fact you can either restrict the gas going into the gas tube or bleed it forward. Less crap fouling up the receiver, less noise, and less wear and tear on parts.  SpringCo blue/red along with a H2/H3 buffer will also work but I like the idea of being able to finely tune where the gas is going. |
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Then I'd have to buy a 9" KMR to replace the 10" KMR. The original ones are hard to find.  Quoted:
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Cut barrel to 10.5 inches. Problem solved. Then I'd have to buy a 9" KMR to replace the 10" KMR. The original ones are hard to find. Yeah. Wish I grabbed an 11.5" BCM BFH upper with the original 10" magnesium KMR when I had the chance. |
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Yeah. Wish I grabbed an 11.5" BCM BFH upper with the original 10" magnesium KMR when I had the chance. Quoted:
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Cut barrel to 10.5 inches. Problem solved. Then I'd have to buy a 9" KMR to replace the 10" KMR. The original ones are hard to find. Yeah. Wish I grabbed an 11.5" BCM BFH upper with the original 10" magnesium KMR when I had the chance. It's ridiculously light weight with out the can! |
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It's ridiculously light weight with out the can! Quoted:
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Cut barrel to 10.5 inches. Problem solved. Then I'd have to buy a 9" KMR to replace the 10" KMR. The original ones are hard to find. Yeah. Wish I grabbed an 11.5" BCM BFH upper with the original 10" magnesium KMR when I had the chance. It's ridiculously light weight with out the can! I bet. My all factory BCM BFH 14.5" setup with their original magnesium 13" KMR plus AAC Mini 4 can and a heavier optic on top is even insanely light: 
Still my favorite 14.5" I've ever owned. That's an old pic, but the only changes on it since then is I swapped the Mark 6 on top for a VCOG. |
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Stiffer springs and heavier buffers aren't just bandaids. They flat out fix overgassing. There's always people around Arfcom with no personal experience on certain topics that just love to have flat out wrong opinions about them though. Quoted:
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even in slo-mo it looks like that BCG is moving so fast it's bouncing off the back of the buffer tube and causing your problems. Meaning: you're right, it's overgassed. It's cycling back too fast. A heavier buffer means more weight to push back which would increase dwell time but I don't see it slowing this down enough to fix your issue. As others have said, the gas is the problem. Treat the gas, not the other pieces. But, I can sympathize and understand that you can't shrink a gas port and it's not as easy to change gas blocks. I would try a stiffer buffer spring as they're relatively cheap, and if you don't want to change the gasblock then I would consider something like the Gemtech suppressed BCG my 16" suppressed Recce was getting a lot of bolt bounce and causing malfunctions with an H buffer. Put a sprinco 'red' in there and it functions unsuppressed and suppressed now. Stiffer springs and heavier buffers aren't just bandaids. They flat out fix overgassing. There's always people around Arfcom with no personal experience on certain topics that just love to have flat out wrong opinions about them though. I still disagree. If the gun is overgassed, increasing the cyclic mass or putting a stiffer buffer spring in there treat the symptoms of being overgassed, but they don't treat the main source of the problem. It's like this: my car makes an annoying whining sound over 60mph. This is caused by a roof rack. Instead of addressing the roof rack directly to fix the problem I simply turn my stereo up really loud, and now I don't hear the noise anymore. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to say that heavier buffers and stiffer springs aren't going to fix the OPs problems, i'm just pointing out that his problem is overgassing and addressing that directly may be the best solution. But in lieu of that, I think a stiffer buffer spring is going to show a bigger difference than just an h2 or h3 buffer. |
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Quoted: I still disagree. If the gun is overgassed, increasing the cyclic mass or putting a stiffer buffer spring in there treat the symptoms of being overgassed, but they don't treat the main source of the problem. It's like this: my car makes an annoying whining sound over 60mph. This is caused by a roof rack. Instead of addressing the roof rack directly to fix the problem I simply turn my stereo up really loud, and now I don't hear the noise anymore. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to say that heavier buffers and stiffer springs aren't going to fix the OPs problems, i'm just pointing out that his problem is overgassing and addressing that directly may be the best solution. But in lieu of that, I think a stiffer buffer spring is going to show a bigger difference than just an h2 or h3 buffer. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: even in slo-mo it looks like that BCG is moving so fast it's bouncing off the back of the buffer tube and causing your problems. Meaning: you're right, it's overgassed. It's cycling back too fast. A heavier buffer means more weight to push back which would increase dwell time but I don't see it slowing this down enough to fix your issue. As others have said, the gas is the problem. Treat the gas, not the other pieces. But, I can sympathize and understand that you can't shrink a gas port and it's not as easy to change gas blocks. I would try a stiffer buffer spring as they're relatively cheap, and if you don't want to change the gasblock then I would consider something like the Gemtech suppressed BCG my 16" suppressed Recce was getting a lot of bolt bounce and causing malfunctions with an H buffer. Put a sprinco 'red' in there and it functions unsuppressed and suppressed now. Stiffer springs and heavier buffers aren't just bandaids. They flat out fix overgassing. There's always people around Arfcom with no personal experience on certain topics that just love to have flat out wrong opinions about them though. I still disagree. If the gun is overgassed, increasing the cyclic mass or putting a stiffer buffer spring in there treat the symptoms of being overgassed, but they don't treat the main source of the problem. It's like this: my car makes an annoying whining sound over 60mph. This is caused by a roof rack. Instead of addressing the roof rack directly to fix the problem I simply turn my stereo up really loud, and now I don't hear the noise anymore. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to say that heavier buffers and stiffer springs aren't going to fix the OPs problems, i'm just pointing out that his problem is overgassing and addressing that directly may be the best solution. But in lieu of that, I think a stiffer buffer spring is going to show a bigger difference than just an h2 or h3 buffer. #2 is enough gas (say the port size is around the same size as the one with the barrel in OP) to reliably cycle an h3 but be overgassed with a carbine buffer. The gun isn't completely overgassed, it's just overgassed for the amount of reciprocating weight. All other things being equal, the gun in scenario 2 will be more reliable, especially when dirty |
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Here's what I think he's getting at. 2 scenarios. #1 is an adjustable gas block or a gas port the right size to reliably cycle a normal spring and carbine buffer. #2 is enough gas (say the port size is around the same size as the one with the barrel in OP) to reliably cycle an h3 but be overgassed with a carbine buffer. The gun isn't completely overgassed, it's just overgassed for the amount of reciprocating weight. All other things being equal, the gun in scenario 2 will be more reliable, especially when dirty Quoted:
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even in slo-mo it looks like that BCG is moving so fast it's bouncing off the back of the buffer tube and causing your problems. Meaning: you're right, it's overgassed. It's cycling back too fast. A heavier buffer means more weight to push back which would increase dwell time but I don't see it slowing this down enough to fix your issue. As others have said, the gas is the problem. Treat the gas, not the other pieces. But, I can sympathize and understand that you can't shrink a gas port and it's not as easy to change gas blocks. I would try a stiffer buffer spring as they're relatively cheap, and if you don't want to change the gasblock then I would consider something like the Gemtech suppressed BCG my 16" suppressed Recce was getting a lot of bolt bounce and causing malfunctions with an H buffer. Put a sprinco 'red' in there and it functions unsuppressed and suppressed now. Stiffer springs and heavier buffers aren't just bandaids. They flat out fix overgassing. There's always people around Arfcom with no personal experience on certain topics that just love to have flat out wrong opinions about them though. I still disagree. If the gun is overgassed, increasing the cyclic mass or putting a stiffer buffer spring in there treat the symptoms of being overgassed, but they don't treat the main source of the problem. It's like this: my car makes an annoying whining sound over 60mph. This is caused by a roof rack. Instead of addressing the roof rack directly to fix the problem I simply turn my stereo up really loud, and now I don't hear the noise anymore. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to say that heavier buffers and stiffer springs aren't going to fix the OPs problems, i'm just pointing out that his problem is overgassing and addressing that directly may be the best solution. But in lieu of that, I think a stiffer buffer spring is going to show a bigger difference than just an h2 or h3 buffer. And suppressed guns get filthy. |
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Here's what I think he's getting at. 2 scenarios. #1 is an adjustable gas block or a gas port the right size to reliably cycle a normal spring and carbine buffer. #2 is enough gas (say the port size is around the same size as the one with the barrel in OP) to reliably cycle an h3 but be overgassed with a carbine buffer. The gun isn't completely overgassed, it's just overgassed for the amount of reciprocating weight. All other things being equal, the gun in scenario 2 will be more reliable, especially when dirty Quoted:
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even in slo-mo it looks like that BCG is moving so fast it's bouncing off the back of the buffer tube and causing your problems. Meaning: you're right, it's overgassed. It's cycling back too fast. A heavier buffer means more weight to push back which would increase dwell time but I don't see it slowing this down enough to fix your issue. As others have said, the gas is the problem. Treat the gas, not the other pieces. But, I can sympathize and understand that you can't shrink a gas port and it's not as easy to change gas blocks. I would try a stiffer buffer spring as they're relatively cheap, and if you don't want to change the gasblock then I would consider something like the Gemtech suppressed BCG my 16" suppressed Recce was getting a lot of bolt bounce and causing malfunctions with an H buffer. Put a sprinco 'red' in there and it functions unsuppressed and suppressed now. Stiffer springs and heavier buffers aren't just bandaids. They flat out fix overgassing. There's always people around Arfcom with no personal experience on certain topics that just love to have flat out wrong opinions about them though. I still disagree. If the gun is overgassed, increasing the cyclic mass or putting a stiffer buffer spring in there treat the symptoms of being overgassed, but they don't treat the main source of the problem. It's like this: my car makes an annoying whining sound over 60mph. This is caused by a roof rack. Instead of addressing the roof rack directly to fix the problem I simply turn my stereo up really loud, and now I don't hear the noise anymore. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to say that heavier buffers and stiffer springs aren't going to fix the OPs problems, i'm just pointing out that his problem is overgassing and addressing that directly may be the best solution. But in lieu of that, I think a stiffer buffer spring is going to show a bigger difference than just an h2 or h3 buffer. Yep. sevin, your last response is all over the place. You start by saying you disagree, but then end with agreeing that my recommendation will fix his problem. Despite that, I understand where you're coming from, but I already acknowledged your point. I too said an adjustable GB would be his best all around option to fully address the issue. OP has said getting a new GB is not an option though, so that's out the window. I've watched his videos, I've seen exactly this dozens of times. He just needs something to help slow the cyclic rate of the rifle. A stiffer spring and heavier buffer will without question 100 percent do that, and yield the rifle fully reliable moving forward (within reason, of course). Does it address the excessive gas port? No. Obviously not. But it will slow the cyclic rate creating less perceived recoil, and yielding a more reliable rifle. And my reason for saying a fix like this is not just a bandaid is because it will be a permanent fix. Sprinco springs have near infinite cycle lifes, and the buffer will sure be along for that ride as well. Not quite sure what you disagree with. I've also discussed the benefits of addressing the gas itself with an adjustable GB. The OP doesn't want to do that, and frankly, he doesn't have to. As I've also pointed out here, I too have 3 ARs that were originally overgassed with a can and milspec ammo. Only one of them now has an adjustable GB. The other two now have Sprinco Blue springs with H3s. They have all now run 100 percent like tops over cases and cases of ammo. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Overgassed! (Page 1 of 3)
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