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Posted: 10/7/2017 7:58:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Bottom Line:
Should I buy the Franklin BFS III vs Fostech Echo II ???? Thanks in advance. |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 10:01:41 PM EDT
[#2]
I went with the BFS III because it was cheaper.
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Posted: 10/7/2017 11:33:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Unless you are running a blowback AR (9mm AR), I feel the Franklin Armory BFS III is the better choice, cheaper, no reports of breakage, it WORKS!
But if you need to run a blowback AR which requires a heavy (slower) carrier the Fostech Echo II is probably your only choice or you will be out running the carrier. But the Echo has several reports of breakage and is quite a bit higher priced than what you can purchase the BFS III for. |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 11:49:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless you are running a blowback AR (9mm AR), I feel the Franklin Armory BFS III is the better choice, cheaper, no reports of breakage, it WORKS! But if you need to run a blowback AR which requires a heavy (slower) carrier the Fostech Echo II is probably your only choice or you will be out running the carrier. But the Echo has several reports of breakage and is quite a bit higher priced than what you can purchase the BFS III for. Echo with aftermarket springs>BFS3>>>>>>stock echo |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 12:14:23 AM EDT
[#5]
I ran my DPMS 22 upper yesterday with CCI mini mag and ran several mags flawlessly. Going back tomorrow to run some more!!!
I got my middy AR to hammer follow for the first time in 300+ rounds. Switched to the extra power spring (from the medium) and haven't had any since. My original plan was to get a 16 carbine upper and lightweight BCG as a dedicated set up...but it has ran so well in my 16 middy so far I may just save the $ for ammo. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 12:20:40 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bottom Line: Should I buy the Franklin BFS III vs Fostech Echo II ???? Thanks in advance. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 12:30:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Parts breakage is overblown. Since the Echo was released there have been several photos of parts breakage in the unit. It appears they are constructing them using MIM parts. I've yet to see a single photo of a broken Franklin Armory BFS III. There is the right way to construct things and there is the cheap way. ; 
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Posted: 10/8/2017 1:27:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Long creep before the break. Guesstimating about 5lb pull. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 6:23:33 PM EDT
[#9]
200 rounds of 22 today at the range. Even the federal value pack was running smooth today. I have been having more fun with this and my 22 upper. A mag dump in the AR is fun don't get me wrong....but the 22 I am getting rounds off so fast and staying on target just mag after mag. I ordered a 50 round 22 drum today, can't wait!
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Posted: 10/8/2017 6:36:02 PM EDT
[#10]
What are the pull weights on the BFS3?
Also can I install a Taylor tactical trigger adjustment screw kit to remove some of the take up out of the trigger and not have issues? Also did they raise their price recently. Last I remember they were like $379 and now they are $429. $50 increase and no difference in parts or generation change? I'm asking questions as I have a fostech echo and I'm debating on getting another or getting a bfs3. I'm wanting to build something that can fire really fast. The echo leaves something to be desired. Has anyone here installed one of these in an ar10 308? I have an ar10 and I'm thinking about slapping one in it or just purchasing the HK version as I have a century c308. Last question, what seems to be the optimal setup to run 100% reliable in a 16 or 20 inch barrel? Does it run faster if I put in a light weight bolt carrier group? |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 6:55:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Last question, what seems to be the optimal setup to run 100% reliable in a 16 or 20 inch barrel? Does it run faster if I put in a light weight bolt carrier group? I ran a Smith Enterprises aluminum carrier in one of my M-16's and it was INSANE!!! On my BFS III I'm currently running a 6.25 ounce carrier and a Wolff XP action spring, this is on a Mid-Length gas system and as much as I've tried I can't outrun the carrier. It runs perfect. If I was starting over today I would probably go with the 2A ARMAMENT Titanium/Aluminum hybrid carrier at 3.90 ounces, I don't think even Jerry Miculek could out run that light of carrier. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 7:29:56 PM EDT
[#12]
I looked at the 2a armament bolt carrier group and it says 5.95 ounces assembled @ $439. I looked at the aim surplus carrier and its 8.9 ounces @ $109. A colt m16 bolt carrier group is 11.5 ounces.
The 2a is pricey so if I opted for the aim carrier and should I run a buffer weight with all the weights removed and let that thing rip insanely fast? Does anyone have answers to my other questions I put in my previous post? I'm still curious about installing in an ar10 and putting in a take up adjustment screw kit that removes the slack in the trigger. I think it might make it faster since I'm pulling and releasing in a shorter distance. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 7:51:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I looked at the 2a armament bolt carrier group and it says 5.95 ounces assembled @ $439. I looked at the aim surplus carrier and its 8.9 ounces @ $109. A colt m16 bolt carrier group is 11.5 ounces. The 2a is pricey so if I opted for the aim carrier and should I run a buffer weight with all the weights removed and let that thing rip insanely fast? Does anyone have answers to my other questions I put in my previous post? I'm still curious about installing in an ar10 and putting in a take up adjustment screw kit that removes the slack in the trigger. I think it might make it faster since I'm pulling and releasing in a shorter distance. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 8:15:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never shot a 308 AR but that sounds extremely unpleasant. What's unpleasant is when your running a standard A2 flash hider with a standard A2 butt stock. That f**ker kicked like a mule and after 40 rounds my shoulder felt like mashed hamburger meat. I replaced the stock with a luth AR stock, installed an SD tactical muzzle brake and put in a different trigger kit and it was like a roaring lion going down to a purring kitten. Complete night and day difference. The century c308 is easy to shoot because of the roller lock system and the chevron muzzle brake. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 9:17:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are the pull weights on the BFS3? Also can I install a Taylor tactical trigger adjustment screw kit to remove some of the take up out of the trigger and not have issues? Also did they raise their price recently. Last I remember they were like $379 and now they are $429. $50 increase and no difference in parts or generation change? I'm asking questions as I have a fostech echo and I'm debating on getting another or getting a bfs3. I'm wanting to build something that can fire really fast. The echo leaves something to be desired. Has anyone here installed one of these in an ar10 308? I have an ar10 and I'm thinking about slapping one in it or just purchasing the HK version as I have a century c308. Last question, what seems to be the optimal setup to run 100% reliable in a 16 or 20 inch barrel? Does it run faster if I put in a light weight bolt carrier group? For me, with carbine or mid-length gas systems, I had the best results running an AIM Surplus LW carrier. With my rifle length upper, it ran great with a M16 cut carrier. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 9:53:09 PM EDT
[#16]
I paid $339.00 shipped on eBay. An East Coast pawn shop had it NIB.
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Posted: 10/9/2017 8:16:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I paid $339.00 shipped on eBay. An East Coast pawn shop had it NIB. |
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Posted: 10/9/2017 12:08:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Yes, there's a 2 month wait now.
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Posted: 10/9/2017 1:12:00 PM EDT
[#19]
The price was 379 or 389 the day after the shooting on their site.
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Posted: 10/9/2017 5:16:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Mine was $367 on EBay immediately after the shooting. A few days earlier there were some listed at $329 free ship. I was considering trying a Fostech instead of another BFS3 when I saw those. All of mine have been in the $375 range but I know members here have found some really good deals on them at times. I just prefer EBay since I know they are in stock and will ship fast.
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Posted: 10/9/2017 8:46:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine was $367 on EBay immediately after the shooting. A few days earlier there were some listed at $329 free ship. I was considering trying a Fostech instead of another BFS3 when I saw those. All of mine have been in the $375 range but I know members here have found some really good deals on them at times. I just prefer EBay since I know they are in stock and will ship fast. |
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Posted: 10/9/2017 9:08:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The e-bay starting bids are $450 now, and buy now prices are $5-600. 
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Posted: 10/9/2017 10:31:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The price was 379 or 389 the day after the shooting on their site. I want to order one but it's almost hard to support a company who is gouging the customers to take advantage of the situation but I almost have no choice. Fostech or FA and I already have a fostech so it may be FA time now. Ugh.......it's like cheaper than dirt all over again. |
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Posted: 10/10/2017 2:11:36 AM EDT
[#24]
Don't know if it's been asked but Google didn't yield an answer. Did you ever get back a final approval letter after making the "nuanced" changes the ATF required?
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Posted: 10/10/2017 7:10:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Yay this last one installed smooth as silk and works correctly with zero fiddling in a new Spikes lower!!! I see they have changed the packaging since my last order and now is a blister pack instead of a box.
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Posted: 10/11/2017 12:38:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yay this last one installed smooth as silk and works correctly with zero fiddling in a new Spikes lower!!! I see they have changed the packaging since my last order and now is a blister pack instead of a box. I got the blister pack version. The paperwork says it includes a tube of lube, but nothing in the package. |
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Posted: 10/11/2017 8:35:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I knew I wasn't wrong, it was raised recently. It used to be high and then they lowered it. Its the free market at work. At least they only raised it to the original price and not some outrageous amount. Honestly I can understand them raising it to the original price. They have a lot to lose and possibly little time to make a profit on their product. Nothing more than supply and demand at work. The shooting happened and then bam they raised the price $50 each unit and now they are getting hammered with orders. About a month ago it was $379 and I was going to order it then but I procrastinated. I want to order one but it's almost hard to support a company who is gouging the customers to take advantage of the situation but I almost have no choice. Fostech or FA and I already have a fostech so it may be FA time now. Ugh.......it's like cheaper than dirt all over again. |
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Posted: 10/11/2017 11:14:52 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't know if it's been asked but Google didn't yield an answer. Did you ever get back a final approval letter after making the "nuanced" changes the ATF required? 
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Posted: 10/11/2017 11:52:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did your trigger come with lube? I got the blister pack version. The paperwork says it includes a tube of lube, but nothing in the package. |
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Posted: 10/11/2017 5:47:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Just got an email from the vender on EBay I purchased from. EBay is not allowing these to be sold now so look elsewhere while you can still get them.
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Posted: 10/11/2017 9:21:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes it came with lube although I have several tubes still from previous purchases. One trigger I used Mobil One (my goto gun lube) because it was very gritty from the factory. I took it apart, cleaned it, reassembled, oiled with Mobil one, worked the parts back and forth many times and it smoothed up and works great. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did your trigger come with lube? I got the blister pack version. The paperwork says it includes a tube of lube, but nothing in the package. On a side note....I got a faxon lightweight carrier today. I have not had hammer follow using the high power spring....but I also didnt like having to use it....maybe its just me but it made my recoil feel sharper. So next range trip I will test the faxon with medium spring and carbine buffer. Also got a 60 round Magpul drum so I can really put it to the test. |
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Posted: 10/11/2017 9:23:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My understanding is they have one atf approval letter for the old gen II design but nothing for the new design. The letter they do have they will not release. I have no idea why FA will not release it. The only released ATF letter is for the fostech echo but even that letter is not for new echo design with the hammer lock. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't know if it's been asked but Google didn't yield an answer. Did you ever get back a final approval letter after making the "nuanced" changes the ATF required? |
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Posted: 10/11/2017 11:12:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine was blister pack. No lube. On a side note....I got a faxon lightweight carrier today. I have not had hammer follow using the high power spring....but I also didnt like having to use it....maybe its just me but it made my recoil feel sharper. So next range trip I will test the faxon with medium spring and carbine buffer. Also got a 60 round Magpul drum so I can really put it to the test. I have a A5 buffer system, so I need rifle length springs. I'm not sure if the included springs will work properly, but again, I haven't tried. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 11:39:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone is banking on the precedence set by the first letter. Kind of like with pistol braces....one company got the letter....many other companies have same type product but no specific letter. Example would be the shockwave. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 11:46:59 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just got an email from the vender on EBay I purchased from. EBay is not allowing these to be sold now so look elsewhere while you can still get them. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 5:34:52 PM EDT
[#36]
So, while not absolutely necessary, the consensus is to run the BFS with a LW carrier? Rounds per minute actually improve as well I presume? Anyone actually measured full weight carrier vs the light weight rpm's? Looks like HB Guns youtube video that the sbr was running like a champ with a standard setup. On the fence whether to buy a new BCG up front or try it out first. May go in a 10.5" setup or the 16 midlength. Probably will buy a second for both options when they come back down in pricing.
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Posted: 10/12/2017 5:48:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, while not absolutely necessary, the consensus is to run the BFS with a LW carrier? Rounds per minute actually improve as well I presume? Anyone actually measured full weight carrier vs the light weight rpm's? Looks like HB Guns youtube video that the sbr was running like a champ with a standard setup. On the fence whether to buy a new BCG up front or try it out first. May go in a 10.5" setup or the 16 midlength. Probably will buy a second for both options when they come back down in pricing. For me, I had the best success with a LW (AIM) BCG with carbine and middy uppers. With rifle length, standard M16 did great. This was all with a carbine stock/buffer setup. IIRC, the BFS3 is supposed to run really well with an A2 stock/buffer setup. I never tried mine with one. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 6:01:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, while not absolutely necessary, the consensus is to run the BFS with a LW carrier? Rounds per minute actually improve as well I presume? Anyone actually measured full weight carrier vs the light weight rpm's? Looks like HB Guns youtube video that the sbr was running like a champ with a standard setup. On the fence whether to buy a new BCG up front or try it out first. May go in a 10.5" setup or the 16 midlength. Probably will buy a second for both options when they come back down in pricing. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 8:52:38 AM EDT
[#39]
After thinking about it and reading comparisons vs the Echo, I went ahead and ordered a BFS Gen 3.
I noticed some people seem to be fine and need no changes to their rifle and other people have to tune their rifles. Do you guys think I will have to make any changes totune my setup? That way I can get the parts on order and the upper functioning correctly before the bfs trigger show up. Setup: XM177 Style Upper 11.5" Ballistic Advantage Nitride Barrel A2 FSB (non adjustable) with 0.073" gas port Toolcraft BCG: 9.5oz Carrier, 11.5oz total weight 3.0oz Carbine Buffer AAC 762SDN6 Silencer (when suppressed) |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 10:35:14 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After thinking about it and reading comparisons vs the Echo, I went ahead and ordered a BFS Gen 3. I noticed some people seem to be fine and need no changes to their rifle and other people have to tune their rifles. Do you guys think I will have to make any changes totune my setup? That way I can get the parts on order and the upper functioning correctly before the bfs trigger show up. Setup: XM177 Style Upper 11.5" Ballistic Advantage Nitride Barrel A2 FSB (non adjustable) with 0.073" gas port Toolcraft BCG: 9.5oz Carrier, 11.5oz total weight 3.0oz Carbine Buffer AAC 762SDN6 Silencer (when suppressed) |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 3:11:39 PM EDT
[#41]
I'll throw in my 2 cents on why I decided to order another BFS3 instead of trying out the new Fostech as I was intending. After reading the Fostech thread it seems several are having clearance issues with the BCG still even though the newer version is not suppose to need a bolt with the additional machining. If memory serves correct the original version actually included a new BCG that had that machining done. Also the fact that I like to run 22lr using original Ceiner conversions kits that are running near flawlessly with the BFS3 just made the decision a no brainer for me. Not to mention considerably lower price at least before this last madman incident. The only issue I currently have is with my 9mm guns and hammer follow and that is just an issue of tuning with the right recoil spring i'm certain. Just have not worked with these guns since the first couple of range sessions last year. 5.56 and 22lr are problem free! I'm actually shocked how well the conversion kits are running just using Federal bulk pack ammo and CMMG 25 round mags. I might have one ftf or fte in 10 mags of ammo.
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Posted: 10/13/2017 3:14:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would say yes. I forsee a LW carrier in your future (I'm actually surprised it didn't already have a H1/H2/H3 in it). I understand that the LW carrier is to increase the overall cyclic rate - reducing hammer follow. Would you suggest that I migrate to an adjustable gas block? Right now I have an A2 FSB with wide open 0.073" barrel port. I'm worried that a LW carrier with non-adj gas will batter the gun to death when shooting suppressed. Or is this fear unfounded? I think about the only option to keep the standard FSB look and have adjustability is JPs Adjustable front Sight Base. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 5:34:13 PM EDT
[#43]
I've ran unregulated Lightweight carriers for quite a few years, there are other options for reducing gas.
Adjustable carrier keys Adjustable gas tubes |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 9:58:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would say yes. I forsee a LW carrier in your future Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
After thinking about it and reading comparisons vs the Echo, I went ahead and ordered a BFS Gen 3. I noticed some people seem to be fine and need no changes to their rifle and other people have to tune their rifles. Do you guys think I will have to make any changes totune my setup? That way I can get the parts on order and the upper functioning correctly before the bfs trigger show up. Setup: XM177 Style Upper 11.5" Ballistic Advantage Nitride Barrel A2 FSB (non adjustable) with 0.073" gas port Toolcraft BCG: 9.5oz Carrier, 11.5oz total weight 3.0oz Carbine Buffer AAC 762SDN6 Silencer (when suppressed) |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 10:03:36 PM EDT
[#45]
I have an echo on the way...but I feel like I will wish I just got another bfsiii.
I didn't need the lightweight carrier, but I just didn't like having to use the high power spring...I didn't like how hard I had to pull to charge it....and recoil felt :/ sharp and weird. The faxon is sexy though....and I ditched the sticker 
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Posted: 10/14/2017 1:23:21 PM EDT
[#46]
What's the difference between the blue and white hammer springs? Supposedly one is stronger? Has anyone tried both?
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Posted: 10/14/2017 2:45:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the difference between the blue and white hammer springs? Supposedly one is stronger? Has anyone tried both? |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 9:19:00 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even with that lightweight standard carbine buffer? (I'm actually surprised it didn't already have a H1/H2/H3 in it). I understand that the LW carrier is to increase the overall cyclic rate - reducing hammer follow. Would you suggest that I migrate to an adjustable gas block? Right now I have an A2 FSB with wide open 0.073" barrel port. I'm worried that a LW carrier with non-adj gas will batter the gun to death when shooting suppressed. Or is this fear unfounded? I think about the only option to keep the standard FSB look and have adjustability is JPs Adjustable front Sight Base. |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 10:36:12 PM EDT
[#49]
What buffer springs do these come with? I thought they came with one stiffer spring but the one I saw appeared to have 2 buffer springs.
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Posted: 10/15/2017 9:57:18 AM EDT
[#50]
As for action springs, I highly recommend "Sprinco" brand. Over in varying weights and supposedly incredibly long lasting. I've had great luck with them in a variety of uses.
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