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Posted: 6/28/2016 10:07:09 PM EDT
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I was looking at getting one of these to save some cash on ammo and still be able to use the same rifle configuration. I have read quite a bit about them but have questions about how they hold up over time.
Is there any negative effects on the rifle/barrel over years of use? Assuming I shoot .223/5.56 after each session will the gas tube remain clear? How is accuracy without having to re-zero my red dot? Is there another brand to consider besides CMMG? |
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There is a lot of information in the rimfire and pistol caliber section here on ARF.com. I used a 22 conversion a lot for several years back in the mid 90's. The CMMG kits are GTG and if you have a problem CMMG has good customer service. The main problem with using a 22 conversion is the filth of shooting rimfire ammo.
The blow back action of 22 rimfires and pistol caliber carbines is hard on trigger and hammer pins. I have shot 10's of thousands of 22 rimfire in my dedicated 22 LR AR-15's and my 223/5.56 barrels and never have had a problem with the hammer or trigger pins. I eventually moved to dedicated upper and lowers for shooting rimfire 22's because I was shooting way more rimfire than centerfire. Be forewarned that 22 rimfire AR's are very addicting, I currently have four plus a couple of conversion kits. The conversions won't provide the same level of accuracy as a dedicated 1:16 twist rimfire barrel. Any of the 223/5.56 barrels will produce fliers with rimfire ammo which ruins your groups if your shooting paper targets. The 1:7 twist 223/5.56 barrels are generally the least accurate with 22 LR. I used to shoot a lot of 22 LR ammo in 1:9 twist chrome moly barrels. The groups were plenty good for shooting CQB drills or steel plates out to 100 yards. Shooting at paper targets at 50 yards would always produce a couple fliers in a 10 shot group. My 1:9 twist barrels would shoot Federal 36 grain HP bulk into 1-1.5" groups at 50 yards because of the fliers. If you got lucky you could get a .75" group maybe a little less. I was issued a M-16 A-1 with a Colt 1:12 chrome lined barrel that really shot Aguila Super Extra 40 grain HV plated bullets consistently. That particular barrel and ammo was almost as good as my dedicated DPMS 1:16 twist M-4 style barrel. YMMV |
| As mentioned above, the CGGM .22 LR conversion is good for CQB drills and ringing steel out to about 100 yards, then the trajectory really drops off. Your red dot will probably need adjustment between .22 LR and 5.56 simply because of the huge difference in velocity. I built a dedicated .22 LR upper with a CMMG barrel, and it is an absolute tack driver. The 1:16 twist barrel makes a huge difference. |
| I have a Tactical Solutions SBX. Had a few FTF's initially, but after 25 rounds, everything shot well. Federal Lightnings, Wally World copper coated and Auto Match. I did not shoot specifically for groups, but accurate enough for training with a 1-4x Millet DMR scope. I really like the setup. |
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Quoted:
There is a lot of information in the rimfire and pistol caliber section here on ARF.com. I used a 22 conversion a lot for several years back in the mid 90's. The CMMG kits are GTG and if you have a problem CMMG has good customer service. The main problem with using a 22 conversion is the filth of shooting rimfire ammo. The blow back action of 22 rimfires and pistol caliber carbines is hard on trigger and hammer pins. I have shot 10's of thousands of 22 rimfire in my dedicated 22 LR AR-15's and my 223/5.56 barrels and never have had a problem with the hammer or trigger pins. I eventually moved to dedicated upper and lowers for shooting rimfire 22's because I was shooting way more rimfire than centerfire. Be forewarned that 22 rimfire AR's are very addicting, I currently have four plus a couple of conversion kits. The conversions won't provide the same level of accuracy as a dedicated 1:16 twist rimfire barrel. Any of the 223/5.56 barrels will produce fliers with rimfire ammo which ruins your groups if your shooting paper targets. The 1:7 twist 223/5.56 barrels are generally the least accurate with 22 LR. I used to shoot a lot of 22 LR ammo in 1:9 twist chrome moly barrels. The groups were plenty good for shooting CQB drills or steel plates out to 100 yards. Shooting at paper targets at 50 yards would always produce a couple fliers in a 10 shot group. My 1:9 twist barrels would shoot Federal 36 grain HP bulk into 1-1.5" groups at 50 yards because of the fliers. If you got lucky you could get a .75" group maybe a little less. I was issued a M-16 A-1 with a Colt 1:12 chrome lined barrel that really shot Aguila Super Extra 40 grain HV plated bullets consistently. That particular barrel and ammo was almost as good as my dedicated DPMS 1:16 twist M-4 style barrel. YMMV Pretty concise write-up here. |
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Quoted:
The blow back action of 22 rimfires and pistol caliber carbines is hard on trigger and hammer pins. I always hear this story when talking about 22 conversion... I'm wondering if it's even true... do you have any more info about this issue? I dont get how a dedicated 22 rifle like the S&W MP22 could be less prone to failure since the FCG is pretty much identical to a full power AR15 (doesnt it?) |
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I know a few years ago people were using KNS hammer and trigger pins on their blow back builds. I think the hammer pins are more likely to break but I have yet to have any pins break on any of my AR-15's. Whether a low quality pin is the culprit and is aggravated by the blow back action I can't say. I always keep spare hammer and trigger pins plus other small parts for the AR-15.
My old PD ran Colt 9 MM sub guns with WW 115 grain +P+ ammo and I don't remember hearing of broken hammer pins. It may have happened but never when I was around. You'd think if their was a serious problem it would show up on these heavily used sub guns. The OP wanted to know of any issues, to me get a couple of spare pins and start blasting. I did find I broke firing pins regularly but once I started using RRA NM FCG I rarely experienced broken firing pins. I have spare firing pins,extractors, and assorted springs on hand for my 22 conversion kits and dedicated 22 uppers. I recently disassembled one of my older lowers which had been used extensively with 22 conversions and dedicated rimfire uppers. I was shocked by the amount of crud which had built up over the years. I regularly clean my AR-15's but I hadn't removed the hammer or trigger since I bought the lower. The amount of crud and filth was worse than any AR-15 I had ever seen which had been used with centerfire ammo. This was the main reason I went to dedicated AR-15's for rimfire, I just didn't want that crud in a rifle I might need for self defense, SHTF or in a hunting situation. Shooting rimfire 22's is a great training aid and tons of fun but they are very dirty. |
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Quoted:
There is a lot of information in the rimfire and pistol caliber section here on ARF.com. I used a 22 conversion a lot for several years back in the mid 90's. The CMMG kits are GTG and if you have a problem CMMG has good customer service. The main problem with using a 22 conversion is the filth of shooting rimfire ammo. The blow back action of 22 rimfires and pistol caliber carbines is hard on trigger and hammer pins. I have shot 10's of thousands of 22 rimfire in my dedicated 22 LR AR-15's and my 223/5.56 barrels and never have had a problem with the hammer or trigger pins. I eventually moved to dedicated upper and lowers for shooting rimfire 22's because I was shooting way more rimfire than centerfire. Be forewarned that 22 rimfire AR's are very addicting, I currently have four plus a couple of conversion kits. The conversions won't provide the same level of accuracy as a dedicated 1:16 twist rimfire barrel. Any of the 223/5.56 barrels will produce fliers with rimfire ammo which ruins your groups if your shooting paper targets. The 1:7 twist 223/5.56 barrels are generally the least accurate with 22 LR. I used to shoot a lot of 22 LR ammo in 1:9 twist chrome moly barrels. The groups were plenty good for shooting CQB drills or steel plates out to 100 yards. Shooting at paper targets at 50 yards would always produce a couple fliers in a 10 shot group. My 1:9 twist barrels would shoot Federal 36 grain HP bulk into 1-1.5" groups at 50 yards because of the fliers. If you got lucky you could get a .75" group maybe a little less. I was issued a M-16 A-1 with a Colt 1:12 chrome lined barrel that really shot Aguila Super Extra 40 grain HV plated bullets consistently. That particular barrel and ammo was almost as good as my dedicated DPMS 1:16 twist M-4 style barrel. YMMV Thanks! I have a 1:7 barrel but I'm not looking for precision shooting especially with the .22. Just looking for some cheaper fun. |
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Quoted:
As mentioned above, the CGGM .22 LR conversion is good for CQB drills and ringing steel out to about 100 yards, then the trajectory really drops off. Your red dot will probably need adjustment between .22 LR and 5.56 simply because of the huge difference in velocity. I built a dedicated .22 LR upper with a CMMG barrel, and it is an absolute tack driver. The 1:16 twist barrel makes a huge difference. Thanks! That is my goal I think is to eventually put together an upper with the CMMG barrel. |
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Quoted:
I know a few years ago people were using KNS hammer and trigger pins on their blow back builds. I think the hammer pins are more likely to break but I have yet to have any pins break on any of my AR-15's. Whether a low quality pin is the culprit and is aggravated by the blow back action I can't say. I always keep spare hammer and trigger pins plus other small parts for the AR-15. My old PD ran Colt 9 MM sub guns with WW 115 grain +P+ ammo and I don't remember hearing of broken hammer pins. It may have happened but never when I was around. You'd think if their was a serious problem it would show up on these heavily used sub guns. The OP wanted to know of any issues, to me get a couple of spare pins and start blasting. I did find I broke firing pins regularly but once I started using RRA NM FCG I rarely experienced broken firing pins. I have spare firing pins,extractors, and assorted springs on hand for my 22 conversion kits and dedicated 22 uppers. I recently disassembled one of my older lowers which had been used extensively with 22 conversions and dedicated rimfire uppers. I was shocked by the amount of crud which had built up over the years. I regularly clean my AR-15's but I hadn't removed the hammer or trigger since I bought the lower. The amount of crud and filth was worse than any AR-15 I had ever seen which had been used with centerfire ammo. This was the main reason I went to dedicated AR-15's for rimfire, I just didn't want that crud in a rifle I might need for self defense, SHTF or in a hunting situation. Shooting rimfire 22's is a great training aid and tons of fun but they are very dirty. Good to know on the crud in the lower. I will keep that in mind as I most likely will move to a dedicated upper at some point but if I have to take the hammer/trigger out to clean once in a while, i don't mind. The big thing I wanted to make sure was that it wouldn't have any long term affects on any hardward in the rifle except for getting dirty. |
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I have an older CMMG conversion which does not lock into the barrel extension.
It shifts back and forth in the upper under recoil and hammers the lower where the buffer tube threads in, which will eventually crack the receiver. It also causes some malfunctions. The cure was to install TWO Taccom pressure plugs in front of the buffer. One worked but still allowed movement of the carrier, two locks it in place and it runs now without a hitch. Also I get accuracy good enough to shoot Steel Challenge with both the 1/7 and 1/9 barrels I've used. |
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I've had a non-stainless CMMG conversion for a few years. Functionally, it's fine. The zero change from 5.56 is pretty radical, though (1:9 barrel) . . . and there's the crud build-up mentioned earlier. I had it pop my lower receiver once and installed a Taccom plug which seems to have that sorted. Due to the issues, I'm in the midst of assembling a dedicated rifle. Here's what I picked up from the EE:
1:16 Spike's Barrel and Upper with a Smith Vortex FH If you watch the EE, similar deals pop-up with some regularity -- especially with pistol-length dedicated barrels. OTOH, if I were in your shoes and didn't already have the bolt and a bunch of mags, I'd seriously consider this (and actually, I am still considering it as a spare): Complete Dedicated Dissipator Upper with Magpul Furniture and 13 Mags and an ad that tries to install Chinese Malware |
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