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Posted: 5/25/2016 1:25:29 AM EDT
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I am thinking of purchasing a premium rifle. I have several custom built ARs but have yet to own an off the shelf rifle. If I am going to purchase an off the shelf rifle, its coming from the top shelf. I am going to set my budget to not exceed $2000 (not including optics). Here are some of the rifles I am looking at:
1. Noveske Rogue Hunter 2. Daniel Defense V11 3. BCM 16" or 14.5" w/ KMR 4. IWI Tavor X95 5. Spikes Crusader Honestly at the moment I am leaning towards the Tavor. I have 4 ARs in my safe at the moment so the Tavor seems more useful to me at the moment considering the shorter OAL without having to go the SBR route. I also have always wanted a complete Noveske rifle but never came around to purchasing one. Any thoughts? Rifles I should add to my list? Sometimes its hard to evaluate because I can't necessarily get my hands on all of these rifles locally which leaves me having to make a net purchase without handling them. I am going to be selling off or parting out one of my custom builds to then purchase an optic and some extra ammo. |
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I would put Knights Armament in with that group. And also Larue.
There are a couple blogs about testing of a Tavor that seem interesting. Might want to read them and come to your own conclusions. I googled Tavor x95 and they came up. At one point in time I would have jumped to buy a complete Noveske. Since John Noveske died I just don't feel they are the same company. I have no factual or direct data or a smoking gun so to speak to back that up and I could be completely wrong but its a gut feeling and I have learned to go with that. That being said I do have 3 barrels that are made by Noveske 2 N4 and a stainless but they pre-date John Noveske's passing. |
| I'm a big time bullpup guy and I'm more than happy with my original tavor. One thing you might want to consider if you go down the x95 route is the report of widely varying accuracy of the rifle. My original tavor (with a shooting sight trigger pack is 3" accurate or better at 100 yards) I haven't used the x95 but initial testing doesn't seem so positive. |
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I would put Knights Armament in with that group. And also Larue. There are a couple blogs about testing of a Tavor that seem interesting. Might want to read them and come to your own conclusions. I googled Tavor x95 and they came up. At one point in time I would have jumped to buy a complete Noveske. Since John Noveske died I just don't feel they are the same company. I have no factual or direct data or a smoking gun so to speak to back that up and I could be completely wrong but its a gut feeling and I have learned to go with that. That being said I do have 3 barrels that are made by Noveske 2 N4 and a stainless but they pre-date John Noveske's passing. I agree with pretty much everything Striker said. Definitely take a look at the KAC and Larue. I've owned over a dozen Noveske's since 2007 and while I can't speak of their current offerings, I absolutely loved the quality of their rifles. Those would definitely be my top choices when it comes to high ticket priced AR's. |
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LT tAR 5.56 is a good choice but if I was buying a 5.56 LT rifle I think I would get the tOBR. My short list of guns to buy includes the 308 tOBR in the number 1-2 slot that is tied with a P7M13.
KAC SR-15 is a great choice also on the list but further down. I cannot speak bad in the least bit about Noveske they still have excellent quality equipment even after John's unfortunate passing. Have you considered since you already have 5.56 rifles covered getting a 308? |
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If you're going to spend the money on a whole rifle, buy something you can't build in your garage. That also limits your options a bit.
POF - Sold, wouldn't buy again. PWS Piston Rifle - Meh, I don't think the 300 BLK upper I have from them is the best quality. LWRCi Piston Rifle - Ambi lower is especially nice. Would pick over a PWS and POF easy. LaRue - Have a few... best factory ARs IMO, but no ambi fluff. I would be between a LaRue and the 95. |
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I'd take a different approach and first ask what makes one rifle more of a top shelf than another?
The top shelf have proprietary technology (buffer tube, bolt, the way handguards are attached, chamber, barrel fluting, barrel twist, nitride/chrome, etc). And whether you want DI or piston to run suppressed or SBR. Or maybe something like SCAR. Or maybe different calibers. I think my list is: PWS (bolt, buffer, their new PicMod just might be the best) KAC (enhanced bolt) POF (like their bolt cam, but not sure if other technology can solve the same problem) I also need to compare their 308 versions too. I'm not going to run SBR or suppressed, because that would mean .300 BLK. If I eventually go down that right, I'll start looking at pistol calibers. |
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Decide if you want it to be more focused as a lightweight, durable, or accurate rifle and people can steer you better. Not knowing anything I guess used scar! You can never go wrong with a scar. I love my SCAR 17s but I definitely have buyers remorse and wish I had just bought a LT tOBR in 308. The stock trigger on the SCAR sucks so I had to drop $325 more into the rifle for me to love it. |
| For the price range you are in I would look towards Larue. A PredatAR 5.56 is the only "off the shelf" AR rifle I own but is basically perfect in fit, finish and function. Kind of annoying sometimes because even though I have built several rifles I like as well or maybe even better, I cannot seem to assemble anything that fits as well as the Larue. The only thing that keeps it from being my perfect rifle is the handguard. It's a slightly larger diameter than I prefer and you can't get it mlok or keymod. Also, because of its proprietary mounting system (it is bolted directly to the upper), I'm not aware of anyway to change it out. Other than that one thing, which is purely a personal preference, the rifle is literally flawless. Next time I win the lottery you can bet your ass I'll have a PredatOBR 7.62 on the way... |
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I'll chime in...
IMO any list of "premium AR's" in the $2k range HAS to include the KAC SR-15, either at or near the top of the list. But maybe that's because I have one! :)  SR-15 by scott gajdos, on Flickr
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Actually at this point I may be leaning towards the Daniel Defense V11.
There are no bells and whistles about it, however, I know they are solid performers and are lightweight. For my budget of $2000 I can get a DD V11 LW and an Aimpoint PRO and have a solid all around SHTF rifle. |
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I am thinking of purchasing a premium rifle. I have several custom built ARs but have yet to own an off the shelf rifle. If I am going to purchase an off the shelf rifle, its coming from the top shelf. I am going to set my budget to not exceed $2000 (not including optics). Here are some of the rifles I am looking at: 1. Noveske Rogue Hunter 2. Daniel Defense V11 3. BCM 16" or 14.5" w/ KMR 4. IWI Tavor X95 5. Spikes Crusader Honestly at the moment I am leaning towards the Tavor. I have 4 ARs in my safe at the moment so the Tavor seems more useful to me at the moment considering the shorter OAL without having to go the SBR route. I also have always wanted a complete Noveske rifle but never came around to purchasing one. Any thoughts? Rifles I should add to my list? Sometimes its hard to evaluate because I can't necessarily get my hands on all of these rifles locally which leaves me having to make a net purchase without handling them. I am going to be selling off or parting out one of my custom builds to then purchase an optic and some extra ammo. Of the ones you've listed, I'd Get an SR15 Mod2 MLOK. This is coming from someone who has 4 out of the 5 rifles on that list. |
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POF - Sold, wouldn't buy again.
PWS Piston Rifle - Meh, I don't think the 300 BLK upper I have from them is the best quality. LWRCi Piston Rifle - Ambi lower is especially nice. Would pick over a PWS and POF easy. LaRue - Have a few... best factory ARs IMO, but no ambi fluff. Your the first I have read that had slammed Pws. I have 2 and the fit and finish is awesome. Shoots great. Best fit and paint job I have seen |
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Of the ones you've listed, I'd Get an SR15 Mod2 MLOK. This is coming from someone who has 4 out of the 5 rifles on that list. Quoted:
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I am thinking of purchasing a premium rifle. I have several custom built ARs but have yet to own an off the shelf rifle. If I am going to purchase an off the shelf rifle, its coming from the top shelf. I am going to set my budget to not exceed $2000 (not including optics). Here are some of the rifles I am looking at: 1. Noveske Rogue Hunter 2. Daniel Defense V11 3. BCM 16" or 14.5" w/ KMR 4. IWI Tavor X95 5. Spikes Crusader Honestly at the moment I am leaning towards the Tavor. I have 4 ARs in my safe at the moment so the Tavor seems more useful to me at the moment considering the shorter OAL without having to go the SBR route. I also have always wanted a complete Noveske rifle but never came around to purchasing one. Any thoughts? Rifles I should add to my list? Sometimes its hard to evaluate because I can't necessarily get my hands on all of these rifles locally which leaves me having to make a net purchase without handling them. I am going to be selling off or parting out one of my custom builds to then purchase an optic and some extra ammo. Of the ones you've listed, I'd Get an SR15 Mod2 MLOK. This is coming from someone who has 4 out of the 5 rifles on that list. Which 4? |
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What makes a premium rifle a premium rifle?
The OP defined "premium" = Durable + lightweight. Durability would mean looking at the most probable areas of failure: Extractor/Bolt. I think the KAC handguard is the more durable, but that might also add a minuscule amount of weight when compared to the thinner BCM/KMR. The same for barrel profiles. There's also heat sinking or dissipation from the barrel, but I've seen zero proof by how much the gimmicks work, or if they work at all. Lightweight excludes pistons. Also look at barrel profiles, but this will be a tradeoff of lightweight vs accuracy (from heat). You may also want to include metal treatment/plating to reduce friction, wear, and corrosion. But I have no idea how much better the options are. |
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If I want "premium", I'll build it myself, with the very best of what is currently available.
This is a 7 year old rig. 
It has a companion 6.8SPC upper. 
It's changed some since the first build up. Black was replaced with FDE and the EOTech went away for a Vortex Dot sight. 
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If I want "premium", I'll build it myself, with the very best of what is currently available. This is a 7 year old rig. http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s284/twalk1970/12193043_1627194340882465_1479401791_o.jpg It has a companion 6.8SPC upper. http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s284/twalk1970/12239481_1669202443348321_2599197729940484637_n.jpg It's changed some since the first build up. Black was replaced with FDE and the EOTech went away for a Vortex Dot sight. http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z96/M4builder/ARFCOM/Buildsheet.jpg http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z96/M4builder/ARFCOM/Project002.jpg Seriously, this is your best option by far. I own several store bought models, Colt, LMT and Bravo Company USA. I ride them like mail order brides. They have chrome lined barrels, shoot better than I thought they would and I abuse the hell out of them because they're store bought rifles. If I'm going to make some noise or shoot a combat style rifle match, they are the ones I'll take. The overwhelming majority of my rifles are custom built by me, for me. I used premium parts across the board and built them exactly they way I wanted. Nothing was wasted in the process. Each rifle has it's own personality, works as intended and is accurate as hell. I never abuse them. They get fed premium chow and cleaned after every outing. They are worth more than the some of their parts. Other people think I work for a gun magazine when I pull them out at the range. They look like the cover girls for a gun magazine. |
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I'll chime in... IMO any list of "premium AR's" in the $2k range HAS to include the KAC SR-15, either at or near the top of the list. But maybe that's because I have one! :) <a href="https://flic.kr/p/E4jy31" target="_blank">https://c5.staticflickr.com/2/1529/24979126452_ce79a6ec03_b.jpg</a>SR-15 by scott gajdos, on Flickr What kind of light is that? |
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Aside from cosmetics, how can Mil-Spec Daniel Defense be considered premium? milspec ? premium When I think of premium, I'm thinking of something better than milspec. Premium means different things to different people. Are there better rifles out there than Daniel Defense? Of course there are. In my opinion, however, they have proven themselves to be dependable, durable rifles with the barrels having a long service life. Also the fact that your SHTF rifle has a warranty backing it is also something to consider. I have a few rifles that I have built up using what I would consider to be premium parts. I fully vet them and am perfectly comfortable running any of them if my life depended on them. As the post above said, though, a high quality, factory built rifle can give you piece of mind if something would suddenly fail. Its simply a different tool in the toolbox. Maybe instead of "premium" I should have said, "high quality." But that is why I started the thread. I like hearing the other perspectives and I want to make sure that I consider every option on the table. I read many of the reviews about the Tavor X95, and as much as I had wanted one, it doesn't seem like the end product would satisfy me. Looking at the DD rifle, it is a quality built Mil Spec rifle with a nice handguard and is lightweight. You can add an Aimpoint PRO to the equation and have a solid all around weapon system for the price of a KAC rifle. Not saying that a Knight's is not a good choice as it is also a premium offering. Its just that at the moment when I weigh the pros and cons, it makes sense. Keep those ideas coming though. I am curious though, if anybody has ran a Spikes Crusader. I am wondering if they use the CHF barrels or the standard spikes barrels. |
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POF - Sold, wouldn't buy again. PWS Piston Rifle - Meh, I don't think the 300 BLK upper I have from them is the best quality. LWRCi Piston Rifle - Ambi lower is especially nice. Would pick over a PWS and POF easy. LaRue - Have a few... best factory ARs IMO, but no ambi fluff. Your the first I have read that had slammed Pws. I have 2 and the fit and finish is awesome. Shoots great. Best fit and paint job I have seen I don't think I "slammed" them. Buy some more rifles then and see. |
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What kind of light is that? Quoted:
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I'll chime in... IMO any list of "premium AR's" in the $2k range HAS to include the KAC SR-15, either at or near the top of the list. But maybe that's because I have one! :) <a href="https://flic.kr/p/E4jy31" target="_blank">https://c5.staticflickr.com/2/1529/24979126452_ce79a6ec03_b.jpg</a>SR-15 by scott gajdos, on Flickr What kind of light is that? Inforce WMLX |
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If 'premium' means what it means with other stuff...
LMT or KAC. LWRC and Larue would also likely be great. The DD and BCM should be enough to more than get the role (in your heart) filled. If you're leaning towards a Tavor because of the length; then it's most liekly time for you to invest in an AR pistol. I'm an unpaid LMT shill, but damn to they truly make great guns. Toss up between LMT and KAC, as always on here. |
| Go to the industry page and see if someone around you has sons of these different brands and will let you shoot them. People wil mostly justify their own purchases in giving you advice but personal experience is the true test. Most likely you will really fall in love with one of those options and perhaps not the one you originally thought. |
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