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Posted: 3/19/2016 5:00:15 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't remember what the minimum is, but I have a couple PSA premiums that the gas ports was .073 and an ESS Solutions 16" HBAR barrel that I built a rifle from, with a gas port that was also .073.
By chance did you call DD to see if they made a mistake and problems you're having with the port diameter of their barrel? |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 5:17:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't remember what the minimum is, but I have a couple PSA premiums that the gas ports was .073 and an ESS Solutions 16" HBAR barrel that I built a rifle from, with a gas port that was also .073. By chance did you call DD to see if they made a mistake and problems you're having with the port diameter of their barrel? Have not called them yet as I just discovered this today and its the weekend. I was hoping for a quick fix to get it shooting for tomorrow. Will be calling them monday but thought someone here might have an idea what size it is supposed to be. I have an adjustable gas block I could try but not sure if it would do any more good than the fixed gas block I have on there now that always seems to let plenty of gas through. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 5:43:25 PM EDT
[#3]
The spec sheet on my new Lilja 16.5" M4 barrel with carbine gas port shows .080". It cycles just fine.
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Posted: 3/19/2016 5:58:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Colt 14.5 and 16" are .062" IIRC.
William |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 6:25:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Anyone know if a .050 gas block would be small enough to be causing this problem? I can't think of what else might be causing it. Trying an adjustable block turned all the way open here in a bit.
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Posted: 3/19/2016 6:56:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Anyone know what diameter a gas port on 16" carbine length barrel should be? Google says minimum .063 but wanted to double check with the hive. Just tested out the latest build and I think its undergassed. Won't lock back on empty and short stroking. Standard carbine buffer, spikes bcg, gas port is properly lined up, chamber is clean. So I pull the gas block and measure the port and its .050-.053 depending on the measurement. Barrel is 5.56 Daniel defense chrome lined 16" m4 profile carbine length. Is this the issue? Thanks in advance. What ammo? |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 7:27:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What ammo? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone know what diameter a gas port on 16" carbine length barrel should be? Google says minimum .063 but wanted to double check with the hive. Just tested out the latest build and I think its undergassed. Won't lock back on empty and short stroking. Standard carbine buffer, spikes bcg, gas port is properly lined up, chamber is clean. So I pull the gas block and measure the port and its .050-.053 depending on the measurement. Barrel is 5.56 Daniel defense chrome lined 16" m4 profile carbine length. Is this the issue? Thanks in advance. What ammo? Tried about 4 different factory 5.56 loads in 55 and 63 grain. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 7:59:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone know if a .050 gas block would be small enough to be causing this problem? I can't think of what else might be causing it. Trying an adjustable block turned all the way open here in a bit. Are you measuring the port or the block? Usually, gas block openings are substantially larger than the port, to allow for slight misalignment without limiting gas. If your port is 0.053", yes, that might be borderline. The smallest port in any of my 16's is right at 0.060", and it's *really* soft-shooting, even with near-maximum 5.56 hand loads. You might - if you haven't already - confirm the bolt's gas rings are installed and pass the drop test, and check gas key screws for tightness. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 8:09:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you measuring the port or the block? Usually, gas block openings are substantially larger than the port, to allow for slight misalignment without limiting gas. If your port is 0.053", yes, that might be borderline. The smallest port in any of my 16's is right at 0.060", and it's *really* soft-shooting, even with near-maximum 5.56 hand loads. You might - if you haven't already - confirm the bolt's gas rings are installed and pass the drop test, and check gas key screws for tightness. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone know if a .050 gas block would be small enough to be causing this problem? I can't think of what else might be causing it. Trying an adjustable block turned all the way open here in a bit. Are you measuring the port or the block? Usually, gas block openings are substantially larger than the port, to allow for slight misalignment without limiting gas. If your port is 0.053", yes, that might be borderline. The smallest port in any of my 16's is right at 0.060", and it's *really* soft-shooting, even with near-maximum 5.56 hand loads. You might - if you haven't already - confirm the bolt's gas rings are installed and pass the drop test, and check gas key screws for tightness. Measured the port. The gas block hole is much bigger and it was lined up from the impressions it left in the barrel. I just threw an adjustable block turned all the way up on it and it runs fine now. So I guess that will have to be the fix |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 8:27:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Measured the port. The gas block hole is much bigger and it was lined up from the impressions it left in the barrel. I just threw an adjustable block turned all the way up on it and it runs fine now. So I guess that will have to be the fix Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone know if a .050 gas block would be small enough to be causing this problem? I can't think of what else might be causing it. Trying an adjustable block turned all the way open here in a bit. Are you measuring the port or the block? Usually, gas block openings are substantially larger than the port, to allow for slight misalignment without limiting gas. If your port is 0.053", yes, that might be borderline. The smallest port in any of my 16's is right at 0.060", and it's *really* soft-shooting, even with near-maximum 5.56 hand loads. You might - if you haven't already - confirm the bolt's gas rings are installed and pass the drop test, and check gas key screws for tightness. Measured the port. The gas block hole is much bigger and it was lined up from the impressions it left in the barrel. I just threw an adjustable block turned all the way up on it and it runs fine now. So I guess that will have to be the fix Glad you found a solution, Wonder what's wrong with that GB you took off? 
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Posted: 3/19/2016 8:54:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glad you found a solution, Wonder what's wrong with that GB you took off? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone know if a .050 gas block would be small enough to be causing this problem? I can't think of what else might be causing it. Trying an adjustable block turned all the way open here in a bit. Are you measuring the port or the block? Usually, gas block openings are substantially larger than the port, to allow for slight misalignment without limiting gas. If your port is 0.053", yes, that might be borderline. The smallest port in any of my 16's is right at 0.060", and it's *really* soft-shooting, even with near-maximum 5.56 hand loads. You might - if you haven't already - confirm the bolt's gas rings are installed and pass the drop test, and check gas key screws for tightness. Measured the port. The gas block hole is much bigger and it was lined up from the impressions it left in the barrel. I just threw an adjustable block turned all the way up on it and it runs fine now. So I guess that will have to be the fix Glad you found a solution, Wonder what's wrong with that GB you took off? Good question. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it visually. I think that gas port on the barrel is just on the small slide and perhaps the gas block is on the small size too. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:14:07 PM EDT
[#12]
What spring and buffer do you have in there?
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:33:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Something was amiss before you changed the gas block. If the old gas block was indeed aligned properly as you say then either it was leaking around the barrel or the gas tube or maybe a misalignment of the gas tube causing dragging in the gas key. An adjustable gas block cannot give you more gas than the gas post is able to deliver, so just installing it and turning it up all the way is not what fixed it.
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:58:32 PM EDT
[#14]
.058-.063. Anything over .063 is too big. .080 is dumb motherfucker sizing.
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:10:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.058-.063. Anything over .063 is too big. .080 is dumb motherfucker sizing. Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. 
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:31:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.058-.063. Anything over .063 is too big. .080 is dumb motherfucker sizing. .080 is crazy for a range shooter, I would have an adjustable gas block on that, stat. There are plenty of arguments like; who spec'd it, EOTWAWKI, low pressure ammo, etc and I get all that, if you are so inclined, but damn that is going to be some excessive BCG speed, and hard on a bolt and a cam pin. There is no need to have that much pressure for a range rifle. Just my opinion. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:49:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Anybody know what ammo was issue for suppressed-only action by those users?
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:49:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What spring and buffer do you have in there? Standard carbine buffer and spring |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 10:52:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something was amiss before you changed the gas block. If the old gas block was indeed aligned properly as you say then either it was leaking around the barrel or the gas tube or maybe a misalignment of the gas tube causing dragging in the gas key. An adjustable gas block cannot give you more gas than the gas post is able to deliver, so just installing it and turning it up all the way is not what fixed it. My thoughts as well. But the tube is aligned. Couldn't see any evidence of a gas leak but that could have been happening. Block was definetly aligned to the port |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 11:01:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
.058-.063. Anything over .063 is too big. .080 is dumb motherfucker sizing. Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png great post |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 11:12:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryMilspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. Mil-spec is for 5.56-spec ammo loads; civilian .223 loads will spec a different port size. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 11:17:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mil-spec is for 5.56-spec ammo loads; civilian .223 loads will spec a different port size. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. Mil-spec is for 5.56-spec ammo loads; civilian .223 loads will spec a different port size. They benefit from the larger port if they produce lower pressure. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 12:12:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They benefit from the larger port if they produce lower pressure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. Mil-spec is for 5.56-spec ammo loads; civilian .223 loads will spec a different port size. They benefit from the larger port if they produce lower pressure. yup 
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Posted: 3/20/2016 12:40:05 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
.058-.063. Anything over .063 is too big. .080 is dumb motherfucker sizing. Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png Since you know so much, get me the number for the guy who species that port and I'll tell him he's a dumbass on Monday. .060 will run commercial ammunition in 16 carbine all day long and service ammo. You can expect parts failures at reduced intervals from that massive port. For reference, it is lager than the gas port on a Crane 10.3" barrel. It's much larger than a 14.5" M4, which is already gassed properly for any weather conditions and ammunition that has lower pressure than the milspec would call for. With a can on it, it is nearly double the diameter required to run military ammo. DOUBLE. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 12:42:04 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anybody know what ammo was issue for suppressed-only action by those users? As I understand it there was no subsonic loads available then to cycle the action in any set up, if that's what you're suggesting. Also, if that is what you are suggesting, everyone other than you and the Crane fanbois are talking about something else. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 6:49:36 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: .058-.063. Anything over .063 is too big. .080 is dumb motherfucker sizing. Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png .08 wouldn't be 'a bit' overgassed, it'd be obscenely overgassed. A bit overgassed can help in certain conditions. Massively overgassed and you go in the wrong direction reliability wise, plus the magazine can't push the next round up fast enough. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 9:04:13 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lilja supplied the blank only. Compass lake then chambered and finished the blank so if you could show a compass lake spec i would be more inclined to trust that as they would have chamber and port specs. It's not like there is some secret sauce involved and there would be nothing but negatives with a gas port that large, especially a 16" carbine length. .08 wouldn't be 'a bit' overgassed, it'd be obscenely overgassed. A bit overgassed can help in certain conditions. Massively overgassed and you go in the wrong direction reliability wise, plus the magazine can't push the next round up fast enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
.058-.063. Anything over .063 is too big. .080 is dumb motherfucker sizing. Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png I guess you know that the .063" spec is for a .625" diameter gas block and the larger size is for .750" gas block, right? The diameter of the barrel affects the function of the port because of the distance from port to the gas tube is different. Below is a commonly cited reference chart. Note the difference in port size depending on gas block diameter. 
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Posted: 3/20/2016 3:16:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess you know that the .063" spec is for a .625" diameter gas block and the larger size is for .750" gas block, right? The diameter of the barrel affects the function of the port because of the distance from port to the gas tube is different. Below is a commonly cited reference chart. Note the difference in port size depending on gas block diameter. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/3639283889_ee25f9d8d7_o-3_zps8cz96ro3.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
.058-.063. Anything over .063 is too big. .080 is dumb motherfucker sizing. Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png I guess you know that the .063" spec is for a .625" diameter gas block and the larger size is for .750" gas block, right? The diameter of the barrel affects the function of the port because of the distance from port to the gas tube is different. Below is a commonly cited reference chart. Note the difference in port size depending on gas block diameter. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/3639283889_ee25f9d8d7_o-3_zps8cz96ro3.jpg When you don't know what you don't know it is wise to keep an open mind. 
The 16 inch barrels in your list are mid length gased not carbine length. Big difference. An 0.080 port on a 16.5 barrel at carbine length is way over gassed. Simply because there is a print out there in internet land does not mean anyone actually builds such a barrel. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 3:18:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Like the supposed Colt port sizing list that's going around, the numbers there start with outlandish and become more accurate as barrel lengths increase.
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Posted: 3/20/2016 4:16:11 PM EDT
[#30]
I wish I knew how big mine is on my RRA M4gery barrel. It seems pretty overgasses. I'm a bit concerned about breaking parts. I gotta get an H2 buffer in there. I had a 9mm buffer and it ran everything, and then I found out about bolt bounce.
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Posted: 3/20/2016 4:16:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you don't know what you don't know it is wise to keep an open mind.
The 16 inch barrels in your list are mid length gased not carbine length. Big difference. An 0.080 port on a 16.5 barrel at carbine length is way over gassed. Simply because there is a print out there in internet land does not mean anyone actually builds such a barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
.058-.063. Anything over .063 is too big. .080 is dumb motherfucker sizing. Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png I guess you know that the .063" spec is for a .625" diameter gas block and the larger size is for .750" gas block, right? The diameter of the barrel affects the function of the port because of the distance from port to the gas tube is different. Below is a commonly cited reference chart. Note the difference in port size depending on gas block diameter. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/3639283889_ee25f9d8d7_o-3_zps8cz96ro3.jpg When you don't know what you don't know it is wise to keep an open mind.
The 16 inch barrels in your list are mid length gased not carbine length. Big difference. An 0.080 port on a 16.5 barrel at carbine length is way over gassed. Simply because there is a print out there in internet land does not mean anyone actually builds such a barrel. Show me those on the chart are midlength gassed. The list has been around a long time and predates most if not all midlength barrel manufacturers. The differences are gas block diameter. And the 8.375" barrel endvto port is carbine spec, not midlength. Show me the Lilja barrel is midlength. Neither is. Obstenance without facts is not a virtue. My mind very open and supported repeatedly by independent fact sources. Can you say the same? |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 4:18:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Who made your chart?
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Posted: 3/20/2016 4:21:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who made your chart? It's not mine. It is a common resource appearing multiple times here and other AR forums for many years and is a compendium from barrel makers. Where is yours? |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 5:55:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not mine. It is a common resource appearing multiple times here and other AR forums for many years and is a compendium from barrel makers. Where is yours? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who made your chart? It's not mine. It is a common resource appearing multiple times here and other AR forums for many years and is a compendium from barrel makers. Where is yours? Handwritten by a friend that did R&D on port sizing as a contractor to manufacturers. Want to buy it? |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 8:58:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Show me those on the chart are midlength gassed. The list has been around a long time and predates most if not all midlength barrel manufacturers. The differences are gas block diameter. And the 8.375" barrel endvto port is carbine spec, not midlength. Show me the Lilja barrel is midlength. Neither is. Obstenance without facts is not a virtue. My mind very open and supported repeatedly by independent fact sources. Can you say the same? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Well, I guess the mutherfucking United States Navy, Naval Surface Warfare Center - Crane, is wrong then, because that is the spec size for the Seal Recon carbine barrel they had Lilja make and it runs extremely well, sir at .080". What's your problem with a precision barrel made by one of the best barrel makers in the world for a very elite unit? They are the government contract supplier. Being a bit overgassed avoids the very problem faced by OP or from weak low pressure ammo that might be encountered. Milspec for a 16" barrel with .750" diameter at the gas port is actually .070" minimum to .086" maximum. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-10-21-57-14_zps9j4fcinw.png I guess you know that the .063" spec is for a .625" diameter gas block and the larger size is for .750" gas block, right? The diameter of the barrel affects the function of the port because of the distance from port to the gas tube is different. Below is a commonly cited reference chart. Note the difference in port size depending on gas block diameter. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/3639283889_ee25f9d8d7_o-3_zps8cz96ro3.jpg When you don't know what you don't know it is wise to keep an open mind.
The 16 inch barrels in your list are mid length gased not carbine length. Big difference. An 0.080 port on a 16.5 barrel at carbine length is way over gassed. Simply because there is a print out there in internet land does not mean anyone actually builds such a barrel. Show me those on the chart are midlength gassed. The list has been around a long time and predates most if not all midlength barrel manufacturers. The differences are gas block diameter. And the 8.375" barrel endvto port is carbine spec, not midlength. Show me the Lilja barrel is midlength. Neither is. Obstenance without facts is not a virtue. My mind very open and supported repeatedly by independent fact sources. Can you say the same? The part where it allows a 0.086 port. That is for 16 inch mid length. Mil Spec for the 14.5 inch is 0.063. Fact. Adding 1.5 inches of barrel and opening the port 0.023 is going to be grossly over gas. Your chart is all jacked up. What gas system has the port 8.375 from the muzzle on a 14.5 inch barrel? Where do you find a gas block for a 0.825 journal? Why is there 0.016" of tolerance for the 0.750 16 incher and 14.5 incher but only 0.003 for the 0.750 20 incher? Some of us have drilled a gas port or 2 and know what size a carbine gassed 16 incher need to be to function properly. Hint 0.080 is going to be way over gassed. 
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Posted: 3/20/2016 9:53:47 PM EDT
[#36]
I'll trust Lilja and NSWC crane on my 16" Recon barrel. It works flawlessly. If you wanted to drill a million smaller size holes and keep secret lists ("want to buy it" from another poster) have at it. I supplied third party corroboration for the .080" port size on my .750 gas block 16.5 carbine location barrel from morevtgan ine public source. All I'm hearing is "believe me, 'cause I know" . Have at it. I'm sure it shoots softer and you want to promote middies for financial reasons, or for 3 Gun purchasers or such. I'll go with Crane, Lilja, and reliabity for any ammo I might have to shoot including lower velocity crap if the time comes and know it will cycle.
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Posted: 3/20/2016 10:27:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish I knew how big mine is on my RRA M4gery barrel. It seems pretty overgasses. I'm a bit concerned about breaking parts. I gotta get an H2 buffer in there. I had a 9mm buffer and it ran everything, and then I found out about bolt bounce. I wonder if they increased the size. I have one that short strokes w/ an H2, shoots really smooth w/ H buffer. I think I got mine in 2009. I have it apart at the moment, gonna measure it tomorrow. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 10:50:11 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll trust Lilja and NSWC crane on my 16" Recon barrel. It works flawlessly. If you wanted to drill a million smaller size holes and keep secret lists ("want to buy it" from another poster) have at it. I supplied third party corroboration for the .080" port size on my .750 gas block 16.5 carbine location barrel from morevtgan ine public source. All I'm hearing is "believe me, 'cause I know" . Have at it. I'm sure it shoots softer and you want to promote middies for financial reasons, or for 3 Gun purchasers or such. I'll go with Crane, Lilja, and reliabity for any ammo I might have to shoot including lower velocity crap if the time comes and know it will cycle. Teener - slide off your gas block and use pin gauges to size your gas port. If it really is .080 you're trading short term reliability for long term reliability. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 10:55:14 PM EDT
[#39]
That chart has been floating around for years; and those in the know, know it's jacked up.
.080" is HUGE. 16" Colt 6920 barrels use .063" gas ports just like the 14.5" M4 barrels. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 10:58:20 PM EDT
[#40]
The hilarious part about your attitude is that you think Crane and Lilja know better than Colt, Daniel Defense and the Department of Defense as a whole.
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Posted: 3/20/2016 10:58:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Teener - slide off your gas block and use pin gauges to size your gas port. You're in for a surprise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll trust Lilja and NSWC crane on my 16" Recon barrel. It works flawlessly. If you wanted to drill a million smaller size holes and keep secret lists ("want to buy it" from another poster) have at it. I supplied third party corroboration for the .080" port size on my .750 gas block 16.5 carbine location barrel from morevtgan ine public source. All I'm hearing is "believe me, 'cause I know" . Have at it. I'm sure it shoots softer and you want to promote middies for financial reasons, or for 3 Gun purchasers or such. I'll go with Crane, Lilja, and reliabity for any ammo I might have to shoot including lower velocity crap if the time comes and know it will cycle. Teener - slide off your gas block and use pin gauges to size your gas port. You're in for a surprise. You are saying my actual port is less than .080" per the Lilja spec sheet? I admit I did not measure it before putting the block on. I will do that. In the interim, here is another corroborration of the larger port size from one of our forum moderators agreeing with my understand of recommended carbine port size on .750" port journals. 
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:02:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The hilarious part about your attitude is that you think Crane and Lilja know better than Colt, Daniel Defense and the Department of Defense as a whole. Show me DoD spec sheet for 16" carbine. Show me 16" csrbine spec sheet for Colt. Tic, toc. . . . |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:05:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are saying my actual port is less than .080" per the Lilja spec sheet? I admit I did not measure it before putting the block on. I will do that. In the interim, here is another corroborration of the larger port size from one of our forum moderators agreeing with my understand of recommended carbine port size on .750" port journals. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-20-21-42-37_zpsuoi49oig.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll trust Lilja and NSWC crane on my 16" Recon barrel. It works flawlessly. If you wanted to drill a million smaller size holes and keep secret lists ("want to buy it" from another poster) have at it. I supplied third party corroboration for the .080" port size on my .750 gas block 16.5 carbine location barrel from morevtgan ine public source. All I'm hearing is "believe me, 'cause I know" . Have at it. I'm sure it shoots softer and you want to promote middies for financial reasons, or for 3 Gun purchasers or such. I'll go with Crane, Lilja, and reliabity for any ammo I might have to shoot including lower velocity crap if the time comes and know it will cycle. Teener - slide off your gas block and use pin gauges to size your gas port. You're in for a surprise. You are saying my actual port is less than .080" per the Lilja spec sheet? I admit I did not measure it before putting the block on. I will do that. In the interim, here is another corroborration of the larger port size from one of our forum moderators agreeing with my understand of recommended carbine port size on .750" port journals. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-20-21-42-37_zpsuoi49oig.png I edited my reply. If it IS .080 (which is enormously overgassed), you're trading long term reliability for short term reliability - you're bolt will bear the brunt. Red lining your car and dropping the clutch is a reliable way to get the car going too - until it's not. You want ENOUGH gas. Too much is bad. .080 is too much. Good luck with your ninja rifle and may your emotional investments pay off! |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:05:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Show me DoD spec sheet for 16" carbine. Show my 16" spec sheet for Colt. Tic, toc. . . . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The hilarious part about your attitude is that you think Crane and Lilja know better than Colt, Daniel Defense and the Department of Defense as a whole. Show me DoD spec sheet for 16" carbine. Show my 16" spec sheet for Colt. Tic, toc. . . . Colt uses a .063" port on 6920s. If you think the gas port in a 16" gun needs to be larger than a 14.5 I don't know what to tell you. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:12:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are saying my actual port is less than .080" per the Lilja spec sheet? I admit I did not measure it before putting the block on. I will do that. In the interim, here is another corroborration of the larger port size from one of our forum moderators agreeing with my understand of recommended carbine port size on .750" port journals. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-20-21-42-37_zpsuoi49oig.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll trust Lilja and NSWC crane on my 16" Recon barrel. It works flawlessly. If you wanted to drill a million smaller size holes and keep secret lists ("want to buy it" from another poster) have at it. I supplied third party corroboration for the .080" port size on my .750 gas block 16.5 carbine location barrel from morevtgan ine public source. All I'm hearing is "believe me, 'cause I know" . Have at it. I'm sure it shoots softer and you want to promote middies for financial reasons, or for 3 Gun purchasers or such. I'll go with Crane, Lilja, and reliabity for any ammo I might have to shoot including lower velocity crap if the time comes and know it will cycle. Teener - slide off your gas block and use pin gauges to size your gas port. You're in for a surprise. You are saying my actual port is less than .080" per the Lilja spec sheet? I admit I did not measure it before putting the block on. I will do that. In the interim, here is another corroborration of the larger port size from one of our forum moderators agreeing with my understand of recommended carbine port size on .750" port journals. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-20-21-42-37_zpsuoi49oig.png Circular reporting, he's parroting the same numbers off the chart. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:36:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I edited my reply. If it IS .080 (which is enormously overgassed), you're trading long term reliability for short term reliability - you're bolt will bear the brunt. Red lining your car and dropping the clutch is a reliable way to get the car going too - until it's not. You want ENOUGH gas. Too much is bad. .080 is too much. Good luck with your ninja rifle and may your emotional investments pay off! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll trust Lilja and NSWC crane on my 16" Recon barrel. It works flawlessly. If you wanted to drill a million smaller size holes and keep secret lists ("want to buy it" from another poster) have at it. I supplied third party corroboration for the .080" port size on my .750 gas block 16.5 carbine location barrel from morevtgan ine public source. All I'm hearing is "believe me, 'cause I know" . Have at it. I'm sure it shoots softer and you want to promote middies for financial reasons, or for 3 Gun purchasers or such. I'll go with Crane, Lilja, and reliabity for any ammo I might have to shoot including lower velocity crap if the time comes and know it will cycle. Teener - slide off your gas block and use pin gauges to size your gas port. You're in for a surprise. You are saying my actual port is less than .080" per the Lilja spec sheet? I admit I did not measure it before putting the block on. I will do that. In the interim, here is another corroborration of the larger port size from one of our forum moderators agreeing with my understand of recommended carbine port size on .750" port journals. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-20-21-42-37_zpsuoi49oig.png I edited my reply. If it IS .080 (which is enormously overgassed), you're trading long term reliability for short term reliability - you're bolt will bear the brunt. Red lining your car and dropping the clutch is a reliable way to get the car going too - until it's not. You want ENOUGH gas. Too much is bad. .080 is too much. Good luck with your ninja rifle and may your emotional investments pay off! I want to make sure I am hearing you correctly. You are saying that this barrel on a rifle makes it a "ninja rifle"? Lilja Navy M4 |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:38:12 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Colt uses a .063" port on 6920s. If you think the gas port in a 16" gun needs to be larger than a 14.5 I don't know what to tell you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The hilarious part about your attitude is that you think Crane and Lilja know better than Colt, Daniel Defense and the Department of Defense as a whole. Show me DoD spec sheet for 16" carbine. Show my 16" spec sheet for Colt. Tic, toc. . . . Colt uses a .063" port on 6920s. If you think the gas port in a 16" gun needs to be larger than a 14.5 I don't know what to tell you. That's all? That's what I thought. Humm. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:40:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Circular reporting, he's parroting the same numbers off the chart. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll trust Lilja and NSWC crane on my 16" Recon barrel. It works flawlessly. If you wanted to drill a million smaller size holes and keep secret lists ("want to buy it" from another poster) have at it. I supplied third party corroboration for the .080" port size on my .750 gas block 16.5 carbine location barrel from morevtgan ine public source. All I'm hearing is "believe me, 'cause I know" . Have at it. I'm sure it shoots softer and you want to promote middies for financial reasons, or for 3 Gun purchasers or such. I'll go with Crane, Lilja, and reliabity for any ammo I might have to shoot including lower velocity crap if the time comes and know it will cycle. Teener - slide off your gas block and use pin gauges to size your gas port. You're in for a surprise. You are saying my actual port is less than .080" per the Lilja spec sheet? I admit I did not measure it before putting the block on. I will do that. In the interim, here is another corroborration of the larger port size from one of our forum moderators agreeing with my understand of recommended carbine port size on .750" port journals. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Screenshot_2016-03-20-21-42-37_zpsuoi49oig.png Circular reporting, he's parroting the same numbers off the chart. So, the moderator is wrong too, like Lilja and like NSWC Crane? What chart do you use and where is it published? |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:48:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me DoD spec sheet for 16" carbine. Show me 16" csrbine spec sheet for Colt. Tic, toc. . . . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The hilarious part about your attitude is that you think Crane and Lilja know better than Colt, Daniel Defense and the Department of Defense as a whole. Show me DoD spec sheet for 16" carbine. Show me 16" csrbine spec sheet for Colt. Tic, toc. . . . How many gas port sizes does Daniel Defense supply on their mk18 barrel? 2. One for the military and one for the commercial market. Guess which one has the gas port enlarged and is generally considered overgassed? It's not the military version. |
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Posted: 3/21/2016 11:11:03 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll trust Lilja and NSWC crane on my 16" Recon barrel. It works flawlessly. If you wanted to drill a million smaller size holes and keep secret lists ("want to buy it" from another poster) have at it. I supplied third party corroboration for the .080" port size on my .750 gas block 16.5 carbine location barrel from morevtgan ine public source. All I'm hearing is "believe me, 'cause I know" . Have at it. I'm sure it shoots softer and you want to promote middies for financial reasons, or for 3 Gun purchasers or such. I'll go with Crane, Lilja, and reliabity for any ammo I might have to shoot including lower velocity crap if the time comes and know it will cycle. You are sorta getting a pile on but there are well known industry standards for gas port sizes. The mil spec for the 14.5 inch M-4 is 0.063. This results in a very reliable system that is biased to the over gas side for cold weather reliability. Most 16 inch carbine gassed guns use the same size, 0.063, and are over gased to the point that long term parts wear starts to become an issue. I don't believe Lilja is actually sending out 16.5 inch barrels with 0.080 ports. I think the end user is going to see rims being torn off from the early violent extraction. If you actually own one of these barrels why don't you physically measure the port and let us know if in fact it matches that print. Where are you coming up with any official spec from Crane? |
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