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Posted: 10/28/2015 9:49:21 AM EDT
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A local gunsmith said he would not recommend a drop-in trigger because dirt and grit collect in the housing and cause premature wear and possible failure. He shoots an AR in competition so I guess he has some evidence to back up his statement, but I didn't have time to talk longer to him.
What do you folks think of the reliability of a true drop-in trigger - the kind that is self-contained and you just push in two pins and go. The prices seem pretty reasonable if they work all of the time. |
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Quoted:
A local gunsmith said he would not recommend a drop-in trigger because dirt and grit collect in the housing and cause premature wear and possible failure. He shoots an AR in competition so I guess he has some evidence to back up his statement, but I didn't have time to talk longer to him. What do you folks think of the reliability of a true drop-in trigger - the kind that is self-contained and you just push in two pins and go. The prices seem pretty reasonable if they work all of the time. I'm not an expert, but It stands to reason that If something can get in, It can also get out. The casing itself should actually provide a certain amount of protection from particles entering, but if a drop in unit DOES reach that point, I would imagine about the best way to "clean it" would be to saturate the internals with cleaner, and apply compressed air to blow that cleaner back out as best one can. My wife has a POF drop-in in her rifle and we've not had any problems yet. Not a ton of rounds through it though, but no cleaning either. |
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Quoted: I'm not an expert, but It stands to reason that If something can get in, It can also get out. The casing itself should actually provide a certain amount of protection from particles entering, but if a drop in unit DOES reach that point, I would imagine about the best way to "clean it" would be to saturate the internals with cleaner, and apply compressed air to blow that cleaner back out as best one can. My wife has a POF drop-in in her rifle and we've not had any problems yet. Not a ton of rounds through it though, but no cleaning either. Quoted: Quoted: A local gunsmith said he would not recommend a drop-in trigger because dirt and grit collect in the housing and cause premature wear and possible failure. He shoots an AR in competition so I guess he has some evidence to back up his statement, but I didn't have time to talk longer to him. What do you folks think of the reliability of a true drop-in trigger - the kind that is self-contained and you just push in two pins and go. The prices seem pretty reasonable if they work all of the time. I'm not an expert, but It stands to reason that If something can get in, It can also get out. The casing itself should actually provide a certain amount of protection from particles entering, but if a drop in unit DOES reach that point, I would imagine about the best way to "clean it" would be to saturate the internals with cleaner, and apply compressed air to blow that cleaner back out as best one can. My wife has a POF drop-in in her rifle and we've not had any problems yet. Not a ton of rounds through it though, but no cleaning either. I tend to agree with this post. Dirt and grit can get into any trigger....and what do we do? We clean them up and get back to shooting. It would be no different cleaning a drop-in trigger than it would a mil-spec type trigger, other that the fact that the drop-in would be easier to remove and put back in if necessary. I have several CMC triggers in some of my AR's and have not had any dirt/grit issues to date. I like them a lot....not so much for precision work (love my Geisseles for that) but they're great in my combat-type rifles. I don't think you will have any reliability issues. Drop-in triggers have been around for a while now. Nothing new there. Go ahead and get one, try it, and see what you think. I think you'll be happy with it. |
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Quoted: A local gunsmith said he would not recommend a drop-in trigger because dirt and grit collect in the housing and cause premature wear and possible failure. He shoots an AR in competition so I guess he has some evidence to back up his statement, but I didn't have time to talk longer to him. What do you folks think of the reliability of a true drop-in trigger - the kind that is self-contained and you just push in two pins and go. The prices seem pretty reasonable if they work all of the time. Others have covered the basics - a drop in trigger should be kept clean just as you would the delivered trigger. You need a more intelligent local gunsmith - this one's reasoning processes are WAY out of whack. |
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Once a "drop in" trigger is installed... the only thing that separates it from a traditional trigger is a thin cartridge of metal..... that doesn't make it any more prone to damage or building up dirt or debris. How many people pull out their trigger groups every time they clean their gun?.... Not many I would think. In fact I much more apt to pull out my CMC trigger groups for a thorough cleaning than my traditional trigger groups..... remove two pins and drop the whole thing in solvent , air blast it...alcohol dip , dry and lube...pop back in with minimal effort.
I have a CMC trigger and a "Blue" trigger group from Red barn Amory.... both are drop in trigger groups.... no trouble from either and both are great triggers.... much better than any stock trigger group could ever be and well worth the imagined "risks" expressed by your local gunsmith. P.S get another gunsmith |
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I appreciate all of the comments, folks. I believe I will try a CMC flat blade. I had a chance to dry fire one today and really liked it. Should be OK for some bench shooting and enough weight for offhand. I was surprised that the flat blade felt so natural; kind of like a 1911 trigger the way the pistol grip positions my hand.
Thanks again. Hank |
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I appreciate all of the comments, folks. I believe I will try a CMC flat blade. I had a chance to dry fire one today and really liked it. Should be OK for some bench shooting and enough weight for offhand. I was surprised that the flat blade felt so natural; kind of like a 1911 trigger the way the pistol grip positions my hand. Thanks again. Hank I haven't used one, but I've heard and read very positive things about that CMC. |
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Well, I may be the contrarian in the crowd. I don't think the risk is high for debris buildup with a drop in trigger, but I don't know how you could service it.
It may just be a matter of personal preference, but all of my firearms, whether rifles, shotguns or pistols (and I have more than a few) have fire control groups or trigger assemblies that do allow me to have access to the actual trigger, hammer, springs and other components. I think that is an advantage. You can actually see if your lube had dried up or dripped off, or if you have over lubed the parts. That also makes it al lot easier to get in there and clean everything, inspect parts for wear and to properly lube. On the other hand, I suppose that if the group is not completely sealed that there is a somewhat greater risk of unwanted stuff getting on highly polished and hardened surfaces. I'm 65 years old and have been shooting and collecting firearms my whole life and owned firearms since I was a teen. To date, I've never experienced contamination of the fire control group that adversely affected safety or functionality. Not saying it can't or doesn't happen, but not for me. I'm also not saying you have to do this or the sky will fall if you use a completely enclosed assembly. I just prefer to not have it sealed up. I admit that I have zero knowledge of the risks associated with closed housing drop in triggers, since I've never had one. But, my thinking and experience has caused me to stay with an open design which has worked well for me for many decades. |
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Quoted:
Well, I may be the contrarian in the crowd. I don't think the risk is high for debris buildup with a drop in trigger, but I don't know how you could service it. It may just be a matter of personal preference, but all of my firearms, whether rifles, shotguns or pistols (and I have more than a few) have fire control groups or trigger assemblies that do allow me to have access to the actual trigger, hammer, springs and other components. I think that is an advantage. You can actually see if your lube had dried up or dripped off, or if you have over lubed the parts. That also makes it al lot easier to get in there and clean everything, inspect parts for wear and to properly lube. On the other hand, I suppose that if the group is not completely sealed that there is a somewhat greater risk of unwanted stuff getting on highly polished and hardened surfaces. I'm 65 years old and have been shooting and collecting firearms my whole life and owned firearms since I was a teen. To date, I've never experienced contamination of the fire control group that adversely affected safety or functionality. Not saying it can't or doesn't happen, but not for me. I'm also not saying you have to do this or the sky will fall if you use a completely enclosed assembly. I just prefer to not have it sealed up. I admit that I have zero knowledge of the risks associated with closed housing drop in triggers, since I've never had one. But, my thinking and experience has caused me to stay with an open design which has worked well for me for many decades. As stated above- drop in trigger assembly's aren't "completely enclosed", and in fact, most are no more enclosed than any other trigger once installed. I'm also a little surprised you have never had an issue with all your experience. I've had ARs (with standard triggers) locked up from blown out primers on more than one occasion. I've also seen them locked up from getting a small rock into bottom of the lower. I think the OPs gunsmith doesn't like drop in triggers because any id10t can install one and he therefore doesn't get to charge them for the service. |
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I hope he's a better gunsmith than he is an advice giver.
I'm a geissele trigger type guy don't own any drop in triggers. That said i've seen/shot a lot of drop ins never saw one that i thought you couldn't clean or would "magically" be more prone to get dirty than any other trigger. When people tell me complete crap like that idk how to believe anything they tell me. |
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Quoted:
I hope he's a better gunsmith than he is an advice giver. I'm a geissele trigger type guy don't own any drop in triggers. That said i've seen/shot a lot of drop ins never saw one that i thought you couldn't clean or would "magically" be more prone to get dirty than any other trigger. When people tell me complete crap like that idk how to believe anything they tell me. Agreed. I have many Gs, and only one Timney. I can't see any reason for that fairy tale. Why is it always the dude at the gun counter? |
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Agreed. I have many Gs, and only one Timney. I can't see any reason for that fairy tale. Why is it always the dude at the gun counter? Quoted:
Quoted:
I hope he's a better gunsmith than he is an advice giver. I'm a geissele trigger type guy don't own any drop in triggers. That said i've seen/shot a lot of drop ins never saw one that i thought you couldn't clean or would "magically" be more prone to get dirty than any other trigger. When people tell me complete crap like that idk how to believe anything they tell me. Agreed. I have many Gs, and only one Timney. I can't see any reason for that fairy tale. Why is it always the dude at the gun counter? Because people love conflict. and he was a comp shooter. Had a "comp shooter" behind a counter tell me he wasnt worried about muscle memory in a defensive encounter if he was using a pistol he had never trained with. I'm assuming because he knows every function of all pistols that have ever been manufactured and has extensive trigger time with all after he clocks out from Cabelas.... and he was probably younger than me... OP - I have heard the same thing regarding the flat edge of the POF drop in also. While my wife's is the curved, I read a lot of folks saying that the flat spot on the POF drop in unit was a very natural spot for their fingers to land on. I wish I could really say one way or another to back this up, but I have also read all good things about the CMCs as well. |
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Quoted:
I hope he's a better gunsmith than he is an advice giver. I'm a geissele trigger type guy don't own any drop in triggers. That said i've seen/shot a lot of drop ins never saw one that i thought you couldn't clean or would "magically" be more prone to get dirty than any other trigger. When people tell me complete crap like that idk how to believe anything they tell me. Well said. I'm a Timney guy. All my triggers are drop in's. I've never had any issue with cleaning them. |
I know this is late but I hate it when someone asks a question, gets good advice, but never tells you what they finally did..... .
I went back and dry fired the CMC a little more. Nothing wrong with it at all, but I wanted to try a few more triggers before I bought one. One of the rifles a friend let me shoot had a SSA-E and I liked the 2 stage feel a lot. I also like the way a flat blade positioned my trigger finger on the CMC. I also tried a Hiperfire, a RRA 2 stage, and a really nice feeling stock trigger. Did a little more looking and thinking and settled on Geissele SD-E. Has the 2 stage feel I like and the flat blade. Any of the triggers I tried, read about, or saw recommended here would have served me well. Thanks again for all the input. |
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Just a question, but has there actually been any reported failures of drop in units? Follow up question would be did they simply replace the broken part or did they have to replace the whole "unit"? Just posing out of curiosity.
Just to let you know where I stand, I personally am a Geissele guy but I have heard decent things about the Timney's/Pof's not so much good news on the Hyperfires or whatever they are called though. |
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I picked up a CMC flat blade 3.5lb last year and am just now getting in some trigger time with it.
Install was super easy. I put some blue locktite on the threaded pins to keep them locked down. Very crisp, repeatable break. Be advised, that little hook on the front, bottom of the trigger will wear your finger raw until you work up a callous. I shot only a few mags and my finger was a little tender after that. Guess I'm a sis. 
FWIW. |
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