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Originally Posted By Spartikis: So is Franklin basically just making that trigger described in the link it are they adding extra features? Ie 2 stage semi trigger or other features? If not all you're buying from them is a modded mil spec trigger with a ATF approval letter. Originally Posted By Spartikis: Originally Posted By ROMAD-556: Wasn't there was a thread in here not too long ago that detailed out how you could make the same basic thing out of a modified M16A2 burst trigger group? yup, here it is So is Franklin basically just making that trigger described in the link it are they adding extra features? Ie 2 stage semi trigger or other features? If not all you're buying from them is a modded mil spec trigger with a ATF approval letter. The DIY trigger just slips the disconnector. There is increased potential for hammer follow, doubling, etc. |
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Originally Posted By Brutus2:
The guy is a felon. He shouldered the brace. Originally Posted By Brutus2:
The guy is a felon. He shouldered the brace. Why don't you let the law determine that.. You should relax and enjoy reading the content . |
Shooting a gun is like being intimate with a woman. First, you inspect it to make sure it's clean. Then you grab it on the butt and jam the magazine in. If it doesn't fit, make it.
I like smoke and lightning, heavy metal thunder
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Originally Posted By tecstar1:
Why don't you let the law determine that.. You should relax and enjoy reading the content . Originally Posted By tecstar1:
Originally Posted By Brutus2:
The guy is a felon. He shouldered the brace. Why don't you let the law determine that.. You should relax and enjoy reading the content . The internet is serious business. 
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In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
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Originally Posted By HatinHillbilly: So if you dont want to let the second round fire you must hold the trigger back and flip it on safe? .... I dont think im a fan |
"One is a Colt, the other is not. Colt has always been known for quality where it counts, not for its level of fit and finish. " - Stickman
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Originally Posted By brodband8: Or just don't use the third position. Originally Posted By brodband8: Originally Posted By HatinHillbilly: So if you dont want to let the second round fire you must hold the trigger back and flip it on safe? .... I dont think im a fan Or just don't use the third position. |
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I have a receiver with H&K style "auto" markings, and a nearly complete LPK (minus the FCG). I think this might be a sign. Here's to hoping it gets the ATF's blessing, and isn't outrageously expensive.
On the other hand, the thought of putting machine gun parts in a new build does kind of concern me (there are burst FCG parts in this, correct?). |
Nothing horrible was ever sold as a bad idea.
"We're running out of places to flee to. It's pretty much time to stand."-Mech2007
"We're running out of places to flee to. It's pretty much time to stand."-Mech2007
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Originally Posted By Brutus2:
The guy is a felon. He shouldered the brace. Originally Posted By Brutus2:
The guy is a felon. He shouldered the brace. They posted over a week ago that it was a AOW. |
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Originally Posted By Gingerbreadman: I have a receiver with H&K style "auto" markings, and a nearly complete LPK (minus the FCG). I think this might be a sign. Here's to hoping it gets the ATF's blessing, and isn't outrageously expensive. On the other hand, the thought of putting machine gun parts in a new build does kind of concern me (there are burst FCG parts in this, correct?). |
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Originally Posted By Kinganuthin:
my old paintball gun could do this. With a double trigger, it was pretty fast. this aint gonna pass. By the ATF's own definition it HAS to pass. They state that pull of the trigger is one action and the release is a separate action. Just saying. |
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I will be very surprised if this passes.
But if it does I see this more as a novelty item. If the semi stage is a good trigger I'll prob pick one up to screw around with the third position once in awhile, but again this is just a novelty. And of course they better price it way under the scamtastic taccons |
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Originally Posted By Kuraki: Do we have any idea WHEN? I can't find any mention of the thing on their horrible website(s). Waiting on BATFE approval. There is no ETA, you just have to wait for BATFE. I was told they have had it for several months.
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"One is a Colt, the other is not. Colt has always been known for quality where it counts, not for its level of fit and finish. " - Stickman
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Originally Posted By Muad:
Waiting on BATFE approval. There is no ETA, you just have to wait for BATFE. I was told they have had it for several months. Originally Posted By Muad:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Do we have any idea WHEN? I can't find any mention of the thing on their horrible website(s). Waiting on BATFE approval. There is no ETA, you just have to wait for BATFE. I was told they have had it for several months. They are probably trying to figure out how they can undo their previous two or more letters saying a trigger pull has two separate elements which makes something like this allowable. |
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Originally Posted By Bretshooter: They are probably trying to figure out how they can undo their previous two or more letters saying a trigger pull has two separate elements which makes something like this allowable. Originally Posted By Bretshooter: Originally Posted By Muad: Originally Posted By Kuraki: Do we have any idea WHEN? I can't find any mention of the thing on their horrible website(s). Waiting on BATFE approval. There is no ETA, you just have to wait for BATFE. I was told they have had it for several months. They are probably trying to figure out how they can undo their previous two or more letters saying a trigger pull has two separate elements which makes something like this allowable. |
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Originally Posted By Muad:
Waiting on BATFE approval. There is no ETA, you just have to wait for BATFE. I was told they have had it for several months. Originally Posted By Muad:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Do we have any idea WHEN? I can't find any mention of the thing on their horrible website(s). Waiting on BATFE approval. There is no ETA, you just have to wait for BATFE. I was told they have had it for several months. Ah, thank you. I wasn't sure if it was actually sent for approval or if that was hearsay, since there are existing opinions already. |
DanTSX - "Acquiring better guns by burying the shitty ones behind you is the path to enlightenment."
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: No doubt this trigger and the new Geissele trigger are giving them fits. Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By Bretshooter: Originally Posted By Muad: Originally Posted By Kuraki: Do we have any idea WHEN? I can't find any mention of the thing on their horrible website(s). Waiting on BATFE approval. There is no ETA, you just have to wait for BATFE. I was told they have had it for several months. They are probably trying to figure out how they can undo their previous two or more letters saying a trigger pull has two separate elements which makes something like this allowable. I wonder what BATFE is thinking right now, with both of these triggers in their possession. I'm hoping both are approved, and soon. While not really my style (round chucking), the Geissele is something that may have to be purchased. |
"One is a Colt, the other is not. Colt has always been known for quality where it counts, not for its level of fit and finish. " - Stickman
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Originally Posted By Muad: Saw this while visiting their booth. They are dubbing it the BFS (Binary Firing System). It's currently awaiting BATFE approval. The concept sounds interesting. In the third position, it fires a round when the trigger is pulled, then another when it is released forward to reset. No claimed cyclic rates or anything, and that's all the details I have right now. What say ye? I'd like to see this paired with one of the BumpSAWs from the BumpSAW thread. Victory! ETA if it is indeed setup to prevent the hammer dropping too soon...that would be awesome. |
"...when the words "certification", and "association" and "safety" get thrown around, costs, hassle, and gay factor go way up." -NathanJK
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Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
http://ar15hunter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Franklin-Armory-BFS-trigger-1.jpg What say ye? I'd like to see this paired with one of the BumpSAWs from the BumpSAW thread. Victory! ETA if it is indeed setup to prevent the hammer dropping too soon...that would be awesome. Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Originally Posted By Muad:
Saw this while visiting their booth. They are dubbing it the BFS (Binary Firing System). It's currently awaiting BATFE approval. The concept sounds interesting. In the third position, it fires a round when the trigger is pulled, then another when it is released forward to reset. No claimed cyclic rates or anything, and that's all the details I have right now. What say ye? I'd like to see this paired with one of the BumpSAWs from the BumpSAW thread. Victory! ETA if it is indeed setup to prevent the hammer dropping too soon...that would be awesome. With the ROFs seen with the bumpfires, I don't think this trigger would be necessary. In fact, it would probably cause too much hammer follow like you say. |
Three-time Fifth Place Cola Warrior Champion and Official Member of the Six-Pack Club
Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
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Originally Posted By Brutus2:
The guy is a felon. He shouldered the brace. Originally Posted By Brutus2:
The guy is a felon. He shouldered the brace. It hard to tell if he shouldered it or if he check welded it and it was actually 1/8 of an inch from his shoulder. |
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Originally Posted By ns66:
this is bad idea and dangerous imagine after you pulled the trigger, "cease fire, cease fire!", you still hold the trigger back, what are you going to do?  It shows in the video you move the selector to semi it will not fire releasing the trigger. |
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Originally Posted By M4Tank:
It shows in the video you move the selector to semi it will not fire releasing the trigger. Originally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By ns66:
this is bad idea and dangerous imagine after you pulled the trigger, "cease fire, cease fire!", you still hold the trigger back, what are you going to do? It shows in the video you move the selector to semi it will not fire releasing the trigger. Well why would we bother to watch the video or read the previous pages when we could just throw out some random BS statement? I mean this is Arfcom isn't it? 
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Originally Posted By ns66:
this is bad idea and dangerous imagine after you pulled the trigger, "cease fire, cease fire!", you still hold the trigger back, what are you going to do? 
Do you even video or read bro? That aside, practice with the trigger so that you operate it properly. All boils down to training. I've got buddies I'd feel safe with operating an AR with one of these in it standing next to me, and I've met & seen people that scare me with standard triggers and general lack of safe handling discipline and firearms safety. 
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C2AA Founding Member
Yup. Those guys have the RKBA version of battered wife syndrome.
Yup. Those guys have the RKBA version of battered wife syndrome.
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Originally Posted By M4Tank:
It shows in the video you move the selector to semi it will not fire releasing the trigger. Originally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By ns66:
this is bad idea and dangerous imagine after you pulled the trigger, "cease fire, cease fire!", you still hold the trigger back, what are you going to do? It shows in the video you move the selector to semi it will not fire releasing the trigger. in the field most likely the operator will forget and just release the trigger, it's so counter intuitive
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Originally Posted By ns66:
in the field most likely the operator will forget and just release the trigger, it's so counter intuitive Originally Posted By ns66:
Originally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By ns66:
this is bad idea and dangerous imagine after you pulled the trigger, "cease fire, cease fire!", you still hold the trigger back, what are you going to do? It shows in the video you move the selector to semi it will not fire releasing the trigger. in the field most likely the operator will forget and just release the trigger, it's so counter intuitive If you are shooting and holding back the trigger, why would you be in the double tap position? That is what middle position is for (aimed single fire target shooting with follow through) And if you are in the third position, and they call cease fire, before the word "fire" passes their lips, you would have released the trigger. |
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Originally Posted By Captain_Morgan:
With the ROFs seen with the bumpfires, I don't think this trigger would be necessary. In fact, it would probably cause too much hammer follow like you say. Careful double taps with this is more interesting and useful to me than bump firing with the whole f-ing gun reciprocating in my hands. |
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Originally Posted By ns66: this is bad idea and dangerous imagine after you pulled the trigger, "cease fire, cease fire!", you still hold the trigger back, what are you going to do? This setup seems safe to me IF you have a good understanding of how it works and what your backstop is.
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
It's not hard to time yourself. I can nearly do M3 ROF with a regular trigger (at least for 1 magazine). I think it would be fairly common for people to get 800 to 900RPM with a fire on pull/fire on release design. That's still not quite as fast as this semi auto:  http://youtu.be/VX8hSupbHcM
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By GriswoldGuns:
Need to see Jerry Miculek do a side by side with normal trigger before I form any hard opinions. If he can make it shoot like an mg42, then I could maybe get M3 (greasegun) like rof. No practical value, could be fun with a .22 upper and tracers http://youtu.be/VX8hSupbHcM
Dude stop posting your dumb bump fire comparing it to normal operatating guns. You can only bump fire controllably prone or benched so it has no play vs discussions over triggers. |
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Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Careful double taps with this is more interesting and useful to me than bump firing with the whole f-ing gun reciprocating in my hands. Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Originally Posted By Captain_Morgan:
With the ROFs seen with the bumpfires, I don't think this trigger would be necessary. In fact, it would probably cause too much hammer follow like you say. Careful double taps with this is more interesting and useful to me than bump firing with the whole f-ing gun reciprocating in my hands. When I say "I don't think this trigger would be necessary," I was addressing the person I quoted, which was discussing bump fire weapons, not usefulness in general. |
Three-time Fifth Place Cola Warrior Champion and Official Member of the Six-Pack Club
Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
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Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
*fires more than one shot per trigger pull*  "Hurrdurr, isa masheengun!"
I doubt it gets approved. Well the product only fires "one shot per trigger pull." It happens to fire another once released, which occurs after the trigger has been pulled, held, and released. So it has a chance of being accepted. Hell the bumpfire was. |
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Originally Posted By Mike0341: Well the product only fires "one shot per trigger pull." It happens to fire another once released, which occurs after the trigger has been pulled, held, and released. So it has a chance of being accepted. Hell the bumpfire was. Originally Posted By Mike0341: Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: *fires more than one shot per trigger pull* "Hurrdurr, isa masheengun!"I doubt it gets approved. Well the product only fires "one shot per trigger pull." It happens to fire another once released, which occurs after the trigger has been pulled, held, and released. So it has a chance of being accepted. Hell the bumpfire was. I have an idea..! Everyone should write them letters asking for opinion letters! :D
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Originally Posted By Captain_Morgan:
When I say "I don't think this trigger would be necessary," I was addressing the person I quoted, which was discussing bump fire weapons, not usefulness in general. Originally Posted By Captain_Morgan:
Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Originally Posted By Captain_Morgan:
With the ROFs seen with the bumpfires, I don't think this trigger would be necessary. In fact, it would probably cause too much hammer follow like you say. Careful double taps with this is more interesting and useful to me than bump firing with the whole f-ing gun reciprocating in my hands. When I say "I don't think this trigger would be necessary," I was addressing the person I quoted, which was discussing bump fire weapons, not usefulness in general. Yeah, I see that now. Sorry. |
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Originally Posted By rtran: Dude stop posting your dumb bump fire comparing it to normal operatating guns. You can only bump fire controllably prone or benched so it has no play vs discussions over triggers. Originally Posted By rtran: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By GriswoldGuns: Need to see Jerry Miculek do a side by side with normal trigger before I form any hard opinions. If he can make it shoot like an mg42, then I could maybe get M3 (greasegun) like rof. No practical value, could be fun with a .22 upper and tracers http://youtu.be/VX8hSupbHcMDude stop posting your dumb bump fire comparing it to normal operatating guns. You can only bump fire controllably prone or benched so it has no play vs discussions over triggers. |
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Originally Posted By rtran: Dude stop posting your dumb bump fire comparing it to normal operatating guns. You can only bump fire controllably prone or benched so it has no play vs discussions over triggers. Originally Posted By rtran: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By GriswoldGuns: Need to see Jerry Miculek do a side by side with normal trigger before I form any hard opinions. If he can make it shoot like an mg42, then I could maybe get M3 (greasegun) like rof. No practical value, could be fun with a .22 upper and tracers http://youtu.be/VX8hSupbHcMDude stop posting your dumb bump fire comparing it to normal operatating guns. You can only bump fire controllably prone or benched so it has no play vs discussions over triggers. And from what positions do you typically want to engage people with an automatic weapon that is designed for a support role? From the standing? |
"...when the words "certification", and "association" and "safety" get thrown around, costs, hassle, and gay factor go way up." -NathanJK
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Update from Franklin on their facebook page: "Recently we received a response from the ATF regarding our Binary Firing System. The ATF Firearms Technology Branch thoroughly evaluated the trigger and affirmed that the concept of a "pull-release" design is congruent with a semiautomatic definition. However, the FTB staff have required that we make one change to the design. This change has already been made, and a sample will be shipped to the ATF-FTB in the very near future. We hope that the secondary review doesn't take another 90 days, but we look forward to informing everyone as we progress on this long awaited product." |
"One is a Colt, the other is not. Colt has always been known for quality where it counts, not for its level of fit and finish. " - Stickman
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