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Posted: 12/15/2014 8:00:23 PM EDT
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So I have been shooting this carbine six years or so. The first 3 years it wore an XPS-2. The last 3 an Aimpoint Pro.
I verify frequently that I am hitting on target by shooting from a bench at a 12" Shoot N C at 200 yards. I rough sight at 50 and fine tune at 200. The reason I got rid of the XPS was it frequently failed to keep zero moving from 1 to 5 or 6 clicks in no particular direction. The groups are good just 6 or more inches not in center of the target which will not work on an 10 in steel at 2 or 3 hundred. Thought it might be the barrel nut not torqued appropriately but nothing changed after a smith installed a FF tube. Same problem with the Aimpoint. Last week I was off the top of the target and it took 5 clicks to bring it to the center. Today, off the bottom of the target, took 6 clicks up to bring to center. Gotta be me or the carbine. Carbine started out as a stock OR Smith and Wesson. What say you? I sure would like to find a cure. |
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What are you mounting the red dot sights too? The upper receiver rail or the handguard rail.
The fact that you have 2 different sights moving indicates you have a problem with what they are mounted too. It doesn't make sense that two different sights "move" My guess is they are mounted to the handguard when they should be mounted to the upper receiver (as handguards have play in them and move) |
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Quoted:
What are you mounting the red dot sights too? The upper receiver rail or the handguard rail. The fact that you have 2 different sights moving indicates you have a problem with what they are mounted too. It doesn't make sense that two different sights "move" My guess is they are mounted to the handguard when they should be mounted to the upper receiver (as handguards have play in them and move) Agreed the sight has to be completely mounted to the upper, not the quad rail. The only time you can count one to a rail is if you are using a monolithic upper. Edit What ammo are you using? |
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Quoted:
So I have been shooting this carbine six years or so. The first 3 years it wore an XPS-2. The last 3 an Aimpoint Pro. I verify frequently that I am hitting on target by shooting from a bench at a 12" Shoot N C at 200 yards. I rough sight at 50 and fine tune at 200. The reason I got rid of the XPS was it frequently failed to keep zero moving from 1 to 5 or 6 clicks in no particular direction. The groups are good just 6 or more inches not in center of the target which will not work on an 10 in steel at 2 or 3 hundred. Thought it might be the barrel nut not torqued appropriately but nothing changed after a smith installed a FF tube. Same problem with the Aimpoint. Last week I was off the top of the target and it took 5 clicks to bring it to the center. Today, off the bottom of the target, took 6 clicks up to bring to center. Gotta be me or the carbine. Carbine started out as a stock OR Smith and Wesson. What say you? I sure would like to find a cure. Shoot FSP up. These optics DO have parallax, regardless of what you may have been told. When shooting for groups, orient the dot the same way in relation to the top of the FSP. I had the same experience as you until I began doing this, with a T1. |
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Is it with different types of ammo that you get a shift? Some barrels throw different loads more drastically than others. I've got one that does it pretty bad. It is annoying and you just have to either stock one load or find a few loads that play well together.
If it's not an optic issue, it could be this. Or you're doing something different from one range session to the next. More pressure on barrel if not free floated on bags. Very different placement of face on stock. Although that would be more with irons and not with an optic, but still may be an issue. My guess is my first point. If you have everything snugged down with your optics. |
| To me it sounds like you, the gun, how the optics are mounted or the ammo. I know - that's genius, isn't it? Seriously, you have the two most respected red-dots there are and they both have the same failure? Not likely. If you're changing ammo, you expect this. I mean by 'changing', even using the same ammo but a different lot, you have to re-zero. And on the technical side, its very hard to shoot at 200 or 300 with a red-dot - the slightest movement is like 12" at the target. |
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Thanks all. Optics are mounted to the receiver using the mounts they came with. I have ran an AP Carbon tube the last 4 years. No rails
I often use a Caldwell rifle rest. Groups are good just not in the same location every time. Yesterday when I had it out I wanted to see where it hit with 3 types of ammo. GECO 55 grain FMJ is my match ammo, Silver bear 55 grain hollow point, an I had loaded some 55 grain V-max with running about 2900 fps. This rifle has always shot 55 grain to close the same poi with any ammo I have shot staying on the 12 inch target at 200. . It was no different Monday, except my first 3 shots at 200 where below the target and took out my target stand. 6 clicks up and I was dead center again. Pretty tight groups both before and after the 6 clicks up considering a howling wind. FSP is front sight post? That sounds interesting and something I have considered. My carbine has no front sight tower. I try to maintain a consistent cheek weld every time. The deal is I can shoot my Shoot N C up, walk the 200 yards to paste walk 200 back to bench remount the rifle and shoot exactly in the same spot. Makes me think it is not me. I have never had it move during a shooting session. Only in between sessions. Haven't notice a relation between cleaning and not cleaning. I don't bang my guns around. |
| I also think it has to be either something fucky between barrel to receiver fit, allowing it to move in small increments. I'd rip it down and remove the nut, check the extension and pin and receiver face, re-fit, then retorque the barrel nut and see what happens. |
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Quoted:
Thanks all. Optics are mounted to the receiver using the mounts they came with. I have ran an AP Carbon tube the last 4 years. No rails I often use a Caldwell rifle rest. Groups are good just not in the same location every time. Yesterday when I had it out I wanted to see where it hit with 3 types of ammo. GECO 55 grain FMJ is my match ammo, Silver bear 55 grain hollow point, an I had loaded some 55 grain V-max with running about 2900 fps. This rifle has always shot 55 grain to close the same poi with any ammo I have shot staying on the 12 inch target at 200. . It was no different Monday, except my first 3 shots at 200 where below the target and took out my target stand. 6 clicks up and I was dead center again. Pretty tight groups both before and after the 6 clicks up considering a howling wind. FSP is front sight post? That sounds interesting and something I have considered. My carbine has no front sight tower. I try to maintain a consistent cheek weld every time. The deal is I can shoot my Shoot N C up, walk the 200 yards to paste walk 200 back to bench remount the rifle and shoot exactly in the same spot. Makes me think it is not me. I have never had it move during a shooting session. Only in between sessions. Haven't notice a relation between cleaning and not cleaning. I don't bang my guns around. You are the factor, then. Unless a gremlin lives in your gun safe. The only variable here, is time. The weapon is unaffected by time. You, how you hold it, how your eyes are seeing that day, etc., are most certainly affected by time, amount of light ambient, etc. The organic component is most likely to be affected by time than the inorganic, provided environment conducive to storage. Just my .02 |
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