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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - comparable to KAC (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/5/2014 10:33:22 AM EDT
| What is a comparable brand/model of AR to the KAC SR-15 that doesn't have proprietary parts? |
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Lesser? KAC is great and innovative but they make a bunch of field grade and rack grade weapons; not like a carefully made SS Noveske barrel. Quoted:
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Larue, perhaps? Noveske to a lesser extent. Lesser? KAC is great and innovative but they make a bunch of field grade and rack grade weapons; not like a carefully made SS Noveske barrel. There is nothing special about a Noveske SS barrel - or any of their other Noveske stamped parks other than good QC and tolerances. Any good company can achieve that. |
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What is a comparable brand/model of AR to the KAC SR-15 that doesn't have proprietary parts? There is nothing comparable. What makes an SR-15 special is all those proprietary parts. If you just want a quality rifle there are plenty to choose from, but you cannot get a KAC without buying a KAC. The closest you can get to an SR-15 is building your own rifle with ambi controls, custom gas port/gas block, and the parts you want. |
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There is nothing comparable. What makes an SR-15 special is all those proprietary parts. If you just want a quality rifle there are plenty to choose from, but you cannot get a KAC without buying a KAC. The closest you can get to an SR-15 is building your own rifle with ambi controls, custom gas port/gas block, and the parts you want. Quoted:
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What is a comparable brand/model of AR to the KAC SR-15 that doesn't have proprietary parts? There is nothing comparable. What makes an SR-15 special is all those proprietary parts. If you just want a quality rifle there are plenty to choose from, but you cannot get a KAC without buying a KAC. The closest you can get to an SR-15 is building your own rifle with ambi controls, custom gas port/gas block, and the parts you want. And, it will end up being pretty much the same price as the KAC and still have some proprietary parts in it. |
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almost all ARs sold have proprietary parts on them.
So what is it about the specific proprietary part(s) on a SR15 that cause you to look elsewhere? A lot of people use the bolt as a reason to avoid this gun, and conversely, it's the superior bolt design that makes more desirable. |
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There is nothing comparable. What makes an SR-15 special is all those proprietary parts. If you just want a quality rifle there are plenty to choose from, but you cannot get a KAC without buying a KAC. The closest you can get to an SR-15 is building your own rifle with ambi controls, custom gas port/gas block, and the parts you want. Quoted:
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What is a comparable brand/model of AR to the KAC SR-15 that doesn't have proprietary parts? There is nothing comparable. What makes an SR-15 special is all those proprietary parts. If you just want a quality rifle there are plenty to choose from, but you cannot get a KAC without buying a KAC. The closest you can get to an SR-15 is building your own rifle with ambi controls, custom gas port/gas block, and the parts you want. Nailed it. |
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CROWDLG: They make very nice upper and lower sets, but do They make a complete rifle? CROWDLG: They make very nice upper and lower sets, but do They make a complete rifle? I do not think they do, though jharpphoto is also asking for brands as well as noted below. jharpphoto: What is a comparable brand/model of AR to the KAC SR-15 that doesn't have proprietary parts? |
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KAC uses the LMT Sopmod and the 7075T receiver extension on their rifles. They definitely make great stuff. To say an LMT rifle is as "innovative" as a complete SR15, well, I dunno. Quoted:
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I think LMT is right there with KAC in innovation and quality KAC uses the LMT Sopmod and the 7075T receiver extension on their rifles. They definitely make great stuff. To say an LMT rifle is as "innovative" as a complete SR15, well, I dunno. LMT quick barrel change (and ability to switch from DI to piston), enhanced bolt carrier and bolt are pretty damn innovative. Enhanced bolt carrier is a God send to guys shooting suppressed. LMT enhanced bolt is one of the most under rated products on the market. As is often parroted how nobody has ever seen a broken E: bolt in the wild, I've yet to see or even hear about a broken LMT bolt in the wild as well.... It's also 1/2 the cost of the E3 bolt and works with mil spec barrel extensions unlike the E3 bolt.... So ya, I wouldn't exactly say LMT isn't innovative... |
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KAC uses the LMT Sopmod and the 7075T receiver extension on their rifles. They definitely make great stuff. To say an LMT rifle is as "innovative" as a complete SR15, well, I dunno. Quoted:
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I think LMT is right there with KAC in innovation and quality KAC uses the LMT Sopmod and the 7075T receiver extension on their rifles. They definitely make great stuff. To say an LMT rifle is as "innovative" as a complete SR15, well, I dunno. If you don't think so, as far as LMT innovation goes, yep... you dunno |
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LMT quick barrel change (and ability to switch from DI to piston), enhanced bolt carrier and bolt are pretty damn innovative. Enhanced bolt carrier is a God send to guys shooting suppressed. LMT enhanced bolt is one of the most under rated products on the market. As is often parroted how nobody has ever seen a broken E: bolt in the wild, I've yet to see or even hear about a broken LMT bolt in the wild as well.... It's also 1/2 the cost of the E3 bolt and works with mil spec barrel extensions unlike the E3 bolt.... So ya, I wouldn't exactly say LMT isn't innovative... Quoted:
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I think LMT is right there with KAC in innovation and quality KAC uses the LMT Sopmod and the 7075T receiver extension on their rifles. They definitely make great stuff. To say an LMT rifle is as "innovative" as a complete SR15, well, I dunno. LMT quick barrel change (and ability to switch from DI to piston), enhanced bolt carrier and bolt are pretty damn innovative. Enhanced bolt carrier is a God send to guys shooting suppressed. LMT enhanced bolt is one of the most under rated products on the market. As is often parroted how nobody has ever seen a broken E: bolt in the wild, I've yet to see or even hear about a broken LMT bolt in the wild as well.... It's also 1/2 the cost of the E3 bolt and works with mil spec barrel extensions unlike the E3 bolt.... So ya, I wouldn't exactly say LMT isn't innovative... Spot on 
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KAC uses the LMT Sopmod and the 7075T receiver extension on their rifles. They definitely make great stuff. To say an LMT rifle is as "innovative" as a complete SR15, well, I dunno. Quoted:
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I think LMT is right there with KAC in innovation and quality KAC uses the LMT Sopmod and the 7075T receiver extension on their rifles. They definitely make great stuff. To say an LMT rifle is as "innovative" as a complete SR15, well, I dunno. It's innovative, just not as much so as the SR15. Lmt still rocks |
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LMT quick barrel change (and ability to switch from DI to piston), enhanced bolt carrier and bolt are pretty damn innovative. Enhanced bolt carrier is a God send to guys shooting suppressed. LMT enhanced bolt is one of the most under rated products on the market. As is often parroted how nobody has ever seen a broken E: bolt in the wild, I've yet to see or even hear about a broken LMT bolt in the wild as well.... It's also 1/2 the cost of the E3 bolt and works with mil spec barrel extensions unlike the E3 bolt.... So ya, I wouldn't exactly say LMT isn't innovative... Quoted:
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I think LMT is right there with KAC in innovation and quality KAC uses the LMT Sopmod and the 7075T receiver extension on their rifles. They definitely make great stuff. To say an LMT rifle is as "innovative" as a complete SR15, well, I dunno. LMT quick barrel change (and ability to switch from DI to piston), enhanced bolt carrier and bolt are pretty damn innovative. Enhanced bolt carrier is a God send to guys shooting suppressed. LMT enhanced bolt is one of the most under rated products on the market. As is often parroted how nobody has ever seen a broken E: bolt in the wild, I've yet to see or even hear about a broken LMT bolt in the wild as well.... It's also 1/2 the cost of the E3 bolt and works with mil spec barrel extensions unlike the E3 bolt.... So ya, I wouldn't exactly say LMT isn't innovative... This. |
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I think LMT is right there with KAC in innovation and quality KAC uses the LMT Sopmod and the 7075T receiver extension on their rifles. They definitely make great stuff. To say an LMT rifle is as "innovative" as a complete SR15, well, I dunno. LMT quick barrel change (and ability to switch from DI to piston), enhanced bolt carrier and bolt are pretty damn innovative. Enhanced bolt carrier is a God send to guys shooting suppressed. LMT enhanced bolt is one of the most under rated products on the market. As is often parroted how nobody has ever seen a broken E: bolt in the wild, I've yet to see or even hear about a broken LMT bolt in the wild as well.... It's also 1/2 the cost of the E3 bolt and works with mil spec barrel extensions unlike the E3 bolt.... So ya, I wouldn't exactly say LMT isn't innovative... This. Quoted:
Right now IMO, KAC is the best rifle straight from the factory. I know I would trust my family's life to one. Too bad it can't run steel cased ammo, or low power .223 reliably. A top end rifle should be able to function reliably with any factory ammo you come across. During SHTF, you'll want to be able to fire any ammo type you can get your hands on. |
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Too bad it can't run steel cased ammo, or low power .223 reliably. A top end rifle should be able to function reliably with any factory ammo you come across. During SHTF, you'll want to be able to fire any ammo type you can get your hands on. Sure they do... 
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What don't you like? Why not just buy a SR-15 lower and build an upper to your wants/desires then? Quoted:
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What is a comparable brand/model of AR to the KAC SR-15 that doesn't have proprietary parts? What don't you like? Why not just buy a SR-15 lower and build an upper to your wants/desires then? This is what I did. Buy the lower, and build/buy whatever upper you want. I didn't like the E3 bolt, just due to prohibitive cost as well as the fact that they weren't making URXII uppers with 11.5" barrels at the time. So I would have had to cut the barrel of a perfectly good 16" upper. Went with a BCM barrel and a LMT enhanced bolt. Been 3k+ of happy blasting. |
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Too bad it can't run steel cased ammo, or low power .223 reliably. A top end rifle should be able to function reliably with any factory ammo you come across. During SHTF, you'll want to be able to fire any ammo type you can get your hands on. Quoted:
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Right now IMO, KAC is the best rifle straight from the factory. I know I would trust my family's life to one. Too bad it can't run steel cased ammo, or low power .223 reliably. A top end rifle should be able to function reliably with any factory ammo you come across. During SHTF, you'll want to be able to fire any ammo type you can get your hands on. But it does run steel cased low power 223 reliably. At least both of my Mod1 do, as well as almost all SR15 owners reported on the forum. |
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My mod 1 runs tula and PMC bronze just fine.
It would be awesome if people with no first hand knowledge would stop telling people they don't cycle and they dont shoot better than 3moa. If you don't want to deal with proprietary parts I don't exactly see why you'd want lmt either though.You're paying for those parts that are specific to that rifle either way.Nobody has broken either bolt so it should be a mute point anyway. If you don't want either of those then I'd say you really don't want something comparable to kac.You just want a nice upper which any major quality manufacturer could produce. |
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Interesting thing about these guns is that as far as practicality is concerned, there may be many that are "comparable"... This is the truth, right here. Nothing that makes it "better" than any other properly set up AR. However, elitism and owner loyalty is very strong with them, and they go bananas when one doesn't pay homage to how superior they think they are. . |
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There is nothing special about a Noveske SS barrel - or any of their other Noveske stamped parks other than good QC and tolerances. Any good company can achieve that. Quoted:
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Larue, perhaps? Noveske to a lesser extent. Lesser? KAC is great and innovative but they make a bunch of field grade and rack grade weapons; not like a carefully made SS Noveske barrel. There is nothing special about a Noveske SS barrel - or any of their other Noveske stamped parks other than good QC and tolerances. Any good company can achieve that. That sums it up for LaRue as well in book. KAC makes some very innovative parts though... |
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That sums it up for LaRue as well in book. KAC makes some very innovative parts though... Quoted:
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Larue, perhaps? Noveske to a lesser extent. Lesser? KAC is great and innovative but they make a bunch of field grade and rack grade weapons; not like a carefully made SS Noveske barrel. There is nothing special about a Noveske SS barrel - or any of their other Noveske stamped parks other than good QC and tolerances. Any good company can achieve that. That sums it up for LaRue as well in book. KAC makes some very innovative parts though... Yeah LaRue is not very innovative 
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My mod 1 runs tula and PMC bronze just fine. It would be awesome if people with no first hand knowledge would stop telling people they don't cycle and they dont shoot better than 3moa. If you don't want to deal with proprietary parts I don't exactly see why you'd want lmt either though.You're paying for those parts that are specific to that rifle either way.Nobody has broken either bolt so it should be a mute point anyway. If you don't want either of those then I'd say you really don't want something comparable to kac.You just want a nice upper which any major quality manufacturer could produce. A lot of this made its way into the rumor mill because the legacy SR-15's (URXII) were optimized/tuned for minimal recoil with "mil spec" ammo and some had minor issues with cycling some lots of PMC Bronze and obviously Wolf/Tula. At some point KAC changed the gas port size. That's per KAC reps in the KAC industry section a while ago. I'm sure an archive search would yield some results. Regardless...it was a small number of rifles that had issues and it was blown way out of proportion by people trying to find fault in the SR-15. CMS |
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Yeah LaRue is not very innovative Quoted:
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Larue, perhaps? Noveske to a lesser extent. Lesser? KAC is great and innovative but they make a bunch of field grade and rack grade weapons; not like a carefully made SS Noveske barrel. There is nothing special about a Noveske SS barrel - or any of their other Noveske stamped parks other than good QC and tolerances. Any good company can achieve that. That sums it up for LaRue as well in book. KAC makes some very innovative parts though... Yeah LaRue is not very innovative I wouldn't say that Larue isn't innovative, but KAC has probably put more R&D into the stoner platform over the history of their companies existence than any other company MFG'ing AR platforms out there. About the only company I'd say has lacked innovation in the last 10 years is Armalite. Not much new/unique from them in the better part of a decade...and not even saying they're not a good company....they're just not "innovative"... |
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In the last 10 years maybe, but keep in mind, they are the innovators of the mid length gas system used by just about every other company today. They also designed some bolt modifications among other things.
They designed their intermediate (mid-length) system long before KAC did. And you can still use a bayonet with their system. Not sure what is so "innovative" with KAC? They basically copied LMT's enhanced bolt with a couple modifications, and extended a mid length gas system out a touch to call it their own. |
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proprietary and incompatible or non-standard are two very different things.
ie PMAGs are proprietary. LMT's E bolt is proprietary AND compatible with an AR-15 chamber. KAC's E3 bolt is proprietary but is not compatible with an AR-15 chamber. So if you want something comparable to the SR15's that has parts that are compatible with an AR15, then start with a LMT E bolt it's the only thing currently on the market "comparable" to the E3 bolt. |
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How so? I mean a BCG from a reputable parts manufacturer will be 100 reliable. Is KAC 110% reliable? Quoted:
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As of now nothing can compare to the E3 bolt imo. KAC is in a league of their own. How so? I mean a BCG from a reputable parts manufacturer will be 100 reliable. Is KAC 110% reliable? More of the blind devotion the brand enthusiasts give them. People have to feel elite or "special" about something. No different than any other devoted brand following. "I think Mac users 'get it'." Real quote from a Mac vs. PC focus group. |
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More of the blind devotion the brand enthusiasts give them. People have to feel elite or "special" about something. No different than any other devoted brand following. "I think Mac users 'get it'." Real quote from a Mac vs. PC focus group. Quoted:
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As of now nothing can compare to the E3 bolt imo. KAC is in a league of their own. How so? I mean a BCG from a reputable parts manufacturer will be 100 reliable. Is KAC 110% reliable? More of the blind devotion the brand enthusiasts give them. People have to feel elite or "special" about something. No different than any other devoted brand following. "I think Mac users 'get it'." Real quote from a Mac vs. PC focus group. I think the KAC has a good reputation and rightfully so. I don't believe I have ever read a complaint about a KAC. That says a lot but I doubt they are any better than any other Tier one AR. |
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How so? I mean a BCG from a reputable parts manufacturer will be 100 reliable. Is KAC 110% reliable? Quoted:
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As of now nothing can compare to the E3 bolt imo. KAC is in a league of their own. How so? I mean a BCG from a reputable parts manufacturer will be 100 reliable. Is KAC 110% reliable? Until it becomes 0% reliable. Personally...I've broken enough standard bolts (3-4) to see the value in the KAC E3 and LMT enhanced bolts.... 
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Until it becomes 0% reliable. Personally...I've broken enough standard bolts (3-4) to see the value in the KAC E3 and LMT enhanced bolts.... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/image_zps61174b7e.jpg Quoted:
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As of now nothing can compare to the E3 bolt imo. KAC is in a league of their own. How so? I mean a BCG from a reputable parts manufacturer will be 100 reliable. Is KAC 110% reliable? Until it becomes 0% reliable. Personally...I've broken enough standard bolts (3-4) to see the value in the KAC E3 and LMT enhanced bolts.... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/image_zps61174b7e.jpg Then just buy an LMT enhanced bolt? Much cheaper than buying an entire non standard rifle. |
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Until it becomes 0% reliable. Personally...I've broken enough standard bolts (3-4) to see the value in the KAC E3 and LMT enhanced bolts.... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/image_zps61174b7e.jpg Quoted:
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As of now nothing can compare to the E3 bolt imo. KAC is in a league of their own. How so? I mean a BCG from a reputable parts manufacturer will be 100 reliable. Is KAC 110% reliable? Until it becomes 0% reliable. Personally...I've broken enough standard bolts (3-4) to see the value in the KAC E3 and LMT enhanced bolts.... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/image_zps61174b7e.jpg I have seen many broken AR bolts on the net. I shoot a fair amount and have never broken one but I know it happens. I also know that a KAC bolt will break but since there are so few on the market I doubt you hear about it often. But if like you say they don't break then cool. But replacing a $40 bolt s not a deal breaker for me. |
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I have seen many broken AR bolts on the net. I shoot a fair amount and have never broken one but I know it happens. I also know that a KAC bolt will break but since there are so few on the market I doubt you hear about it often. But if like you say they don't break then cool. But replacing a $40 bolt s not a deal breaker for me. There are also very few LMT enhanced bolt when you compare to the standard bolt, just like the KAC E3, so there is no reason to discredit the E3 bolt just b/c of its small market percentage . I would say the number of LMT enhanced bolt and the KAC E3 bolt are about the same, and both are undoubtedly strong and durable. One uses curvature to prolong the life of the bolt, while the other uses a stronger material, both will serve you fine. No one is saying you have to buy anything or change anything to your AR armory, just keep on buying the stuff you like and continue shooting. There are many reasons why people become KAC or LMT fans, they are both innovative and reputable company that continue to amaze us with their design. |
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I have seen many broken AR bolts on the net. I shoot a fair amount and have never broken one but I know it happens. I also know that a KAC bolt will break but since there are so few on the market I doubt you hear about it often. But if like you say they don't break then cool. But replacing a $40 bolt s not a deal breaker for me. Quoted:
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As of now nothing can compare to the E3 bolt imo. KAC is in a league of their own. How so? I mean a BCG from a reputable parts manufacturer will be 100 reliable. Is KAC 110% reliable? Until it becomes 0% reliable. Personally...I've broken enough standard bolts (3-4) to see the value in the KAC E3 and LMT enhanced bolts.... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/image_zps61174b7e.jpg I have seen many broken AR bolts on the net. I shoot a fair amount and have never broken one but I know it happens. I also know that a KAC bolt will break but since there are so few on the market I doubt you hear about it often. But if like you say they don't break then cool. But replacing a $40 bolt s not a deal breaker for me. Please quote where I've said this... ARFCOM GD derp is slowly working its way into the technical forums I see. The longest I've made it on a standard bolt was with a semi auto 16" AR and Colt BCG. It lasted just shy of 16k rnds before it broke a lug next to the extractor. Most quality bolts on our post samples don't make it 5k rnds but they see some pretty heavy full auto use. I haven't used the LMT-E bolt but might check them out when I buy a few more. As for the KAC E3...there are some out there with an extraordinary number of rounds on them, but nothing made by man is infallible. Nobody is forcing the OP or anyone else to buy a KAC... Some people just feel the need to argue for the sake of argument.
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Please quote where I've said this... ARFCOM GD derp is slowly working its way into the technical forums I see. The longest I've made it on a standard bolt was with a semi auto 16" AR and Colt BCG. It lasted just shy of 16k rnds before it broke a lug next to the extractor. Most quality bolts on our post samples don't make it 5k rnds but they see some pretty heavy full auto use. I haven't used the LMT-E bolt but might check them out when I buy a few more. As for the KAC E3...there are some out there with an extraordinary number of rounds on them, but nothing made by man is infallible. Nobody is forcing the OP or anyone else to buy a KAC... Some people just feel the need to argue for the sake of argument.
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As of now nothing can compare to the E3 bolt imo. KAC is in a league of their own. How so? I mean a BCG from a reputable parts manufacturer will be 100 reliable. Is KAC 110% reliable? Until it becomes 0% reliable. Personally...I've broken enough standard bolts (3-4) to see the value in the KAC E3 and LMT enhanced bolts.... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/image_zps61174b7e.jpg I have seen many broken AR bolts on the net. I shoot a fair amount and have never broken one but I know it happens. I also know that a KAC bolt will break but since there are so few on the market I doubt you hear about it often. But if like you say they don't break then cool. But replacing a $40 bolt s not a deal breaker for me. Please quote where I've said this... ARFCOM GD derp is slowly working its way into the technical forums I see. The longest I've made it on a standard bolt was with a semi auto 16" AR and Colt BCG. It lasted just shy of 16k rnds before it broke a lug next to the extractor. Most quality bolts on our post samples don't make it 5k rnds but they see some pretty heavy full auto use. I haven't used the LMT-E bolt but might check them out when I buy a few more. As for the KAC E3...there are some out there with an extraordinary number of rounds on them, but nothing made by man is infallible. Nobody is forcing the OP or anyone else to buy a KAC... Some people just feel the need to argue for the sake of argument.
Re read your post you said a std bolt is reliable until it becomes 0% reliable when it breaks and that is why you see the value in the KAC bolt. Maybe I misunderstood your comparison. I would buy a KAC if the price was right and I was looking but I doubt they are better than any other custom AR. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - comparable to KAC (Page 1 of 2)
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