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Posted: 3/31/2014 3:24:01 PM EDT
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Will the G2S trigger work with KNS non-rotating trigger and hammer pins?
I've emailed Geissele and several other retailers with no reply. I'm ready to buy once I get an answer. |
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Elaborate please. Quoted:
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It will but is not recommended (I intend to do it  )...Elaborate please. No current KNS pins are recommended to be used with any current Geissele triggers, period. Geissele and KNS are working together to make a special set of pins but it has not been released yet |
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Geissele has been intimating that the KNS pins are soft, but I see no issue unless you're running it hard. The two evidently came to a compromise earlier this year and KNS will be releasing Geissele approve sets later this year... Soft huh? So I guess the guys running full auto for 10's of thousands of rounds should be made aware of their "soft" pins holding their triggers and hammers in place. 
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Soft huh? So I guess the guys running full auto for 10's of thousands of rounds should be made aware of their "soft" pins holding their triggers and hammers in place. Quoted:
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Geissele has been intimating that the KNS pins are soft, but I see no issue unless you're running it hard. The two evidently came to a compromise earlier this year and KNS will be releasing Geissele approve sets later this year... Soft huh? So I guess the guys running full auto for 10's of thousands of rounds should be made aware of their "soft" pins holding their triggers and hammers in place. I don't know what material the Geissele triggers are made from, or what they test on the Rc scale, nor the same for the KNS pins. That said, I do believe a manufacturer has the right to say if another component is compatible with their product. It's not a knock on KNS if Geissele says that KNS pins aren't compatible, and the fact that "guys running full auto for 10's of thousands............." doesn't mean a thing if you're talking about OEM full auto triggers. There is more than just a little engineering that goes into Geissele triggers. I'm guessing he or his engineers know metallurgy and there is sound reasoning for their decision. |
| It wasn't about metal softness it was about size. The ins pins were too small. If you Google it Bill geissele put out a letter about it. Their tolerances are also much looser than the precision ground pins that come with a geissele trigger. The new ones are going to match bills dimensions. |
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It wasn't about metal softness it was about size. The ins pins were too small. If you Google it Bill geissele put out a letter about it. Their tolerances are also much looser than the precision ground pins that come with a geissele trigger. The new ones are going to match bills dimensions. I'll probably run the pins that come with the G2S but how do you get different dimensions when it has to fit through the receiver holes? If the G2S pins are larger, how do they fit into the receiver holes? |
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Oh goody! Another KNS pins thread! This topic is soooooo interesting! I need to create another ARFCOM account so that I can manage my 300 KNS pins thread subscriptions. As an aside, I wonder why the Military is so stupid, not running this wonderful invention on their FA lowers that are "run hard". I mean it would provide cheap insurance against hundreds of thousands of pins walking out. I guess we don't care about our young men out there in harms way. Hmm... Maybe the high-speed guys should run them since they are specialty units with more leeway when it comes to COTS modifications. With the smaller group sizes, it is even more critical that every member of a cell/squad/boat crew etc. have a reliable weapon and these KNS Godsends would provide "insurance". Those Special Forces organizations are so stupid for not realizing what KNS owners already know. |
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Oh goody! Another KNS pins thread! This topic is soooooo interesting! I need to create another ARFCOM account so that I can manage my 300 KNS pins thread subscriptions. As an aside, I wonder why the Military is so stupid, not running this wonderful invention of their FA lowers that are "run hard". I mean it would provide cheap insurance against hundreds of thousands of pins walking out. I guess we don't care about our young men out there in harms way. Hmm... Maybe the high speed guys should run them since they are specialty units with more leeway when it comes to COTS modifications. With the smaller group sizes, it is even more critical that every member of a cell/squad/boat crew etc. have a reliable weapon and these KNS Godsends would provide "insurance". Those Special Forces organizations are so stupid for not realizing what KNS owners already know. 
I agree with this. No harm if you want to buy them but it seems OP feels it's a requirement or something. Maybe call Bill at his home #? |
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Oh goody! Another KNS pins thread! This topic is soooooo interesting! I need to create another ARFCOM account so that I can manage my 300 KNS pins thread subscriptions. As an aside, I wonder why the Military is so stupid, not running this wonderful invention of their FA lowers that are "run hard". I mean it would provide cheap insurance against hundreds of thousands of pins walking out. I guess we don't care about our young men out there in harms way. Hmm... Maybe the high speed guys should run them since they are specialty units with more leeway when it comes to COTS modifications. With the smaller group sizes, it is even more critical that every member of a cell/squad/boat crew etc. have a reliable weapon and these KNS Godsends would provide "insurance". Those Special Forces organizations are so stupid for not realizing what KNS owners already know.
Yeah! and glocks and 9mm suck too. And Glock 9mm's suck the most. 
Why isn't the military running Geissele triggers? Probably for the same reason they don't run KNS pins.... |
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Good god it ain't hard.
The pins geissele sends with triggers are some of the best pins made. Geissele expressly states for size reasons and softer metal not to use em. Geissele SSA pins are 0.1550" dia 0.0001. Holes in the trigger can be 5 tenths over Geissele pin size. Kns pins are either .154 or .1555. So they are either too loose or just about a metal to metal fit in Geissele triggers You have a problem with your trigger or if it's a bit mushy and have kns pins they will tell you to take them out for good reason. |
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Quoted: Yeah! and glocks and 9mm suck too. And Glock 9mm's suck the most. Why isn't the military running Geissele triggers? Probably for the same reason they don't run KNS pins.... Quoted: Quoted: Oh goody! Another KNS pins thread! This topic is soooooo interesting! I need to create another ARFCOM account so that I can manage my 300 KNS pins thread subscriptions. As an aside, I wonder why the Military is so stupid, not running this wonderful invention of their FA lowers that are "run hard". I mean it would provide cheap insurance against hundreds of thousands of pins walking out. I guess we don't care about our young men out there in harms way. Hmm... Maybe the high speed guys should run them since they are specialty units with more leeway when it comes to COTS modifications. With the smaller group sizes, it is even more critical that every member of a cell/squad/boat crew etc. have a reliable weapon and these KNS Godsends would provide "insurance". Those Special Forces organizations are so stupid for not realizing what KNS owners already know. Yeah! and glocks and 9mm suck too. And Glock 9mm's suck the most. Why isn't the military running Geissele triggers? Probably for the same reason they don't run KNS pins.... |
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Yeah! and glocks and 9mm suck too. And Glock 9mm's suck the most.
Why isn't the military running Geissele triggers? Probably for the same reason they don't run KNS pins.... Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh goody! Another KNS pins thread! This topic is soooooo interesting! I need to create another ARFCOM account so that I can manage my 300 KNS pins thread subscriptions. As an aside, I wonder why the Military is so stupid, not running this wonderful invention of their FA lowers that are "run hard". I mean it would provide cheap insurance against hundreds of thousands of pins walking out. I guess we don't care about our young men out there in harms way. Hmm... Maybe the high speed guys should run them since they are specialty units with more leeway when it comes to COTS modifications. With the smaller group sizes, it is even more critical that every member of a cell/squad/boat crew etc. have a reliable weapon and these KNS Godsends would provide "insurance". Those Special Forces organizations are so stupid for not realizing what KNS owners already know.
Yeah! and glocks and 9mm suck too. And Glock 9mm's suck the most.
Why isn't the military running Geissele triggers? Probably for the same reason they don't run KNS pins.... 
they are 
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Comment on the subject by a well respected industry company.
Here is the deal on non-rotating pins
Geissele SSA pins are 0.1550" dia 0.0001. Holes in the trigger can be 5 tenths over Geissele pin size. Kns pins are either .154 or .1555. So they are either too loose or just about a metal to metal fit in Geissele triggers Geissele pins are chrome-moly steel that is rough turned, rough ground, heat treated and then centerless finish ground. They are a quality pin. Why do we not recommend KNS pins? One is that they are the wrong size. Can the smaller diameter pins work? Yes, but they are not the intended size and there can be a 'softer" break to the 2nd stage with them. But the biggest reason is that the KNS pins are soft. Sometimes when they are installed they pull up a burr that causes havoc with trigger operation. I get calls from frustrated customers where they are totally disappointed in their SSA because it either feels terrible or it hangs up. I spend all kinds of time on the phone wracking my brain trying to figure out what is going on and trying to work the customer through the problem. Finally, I ask the customer to send the trigger in (which I hate to inconvenience the customer with) and the issue is that the KNS pins are jamming the trigger up. A hammer or trigger pin that rotates maybe 1/8 of a turn with each shot, *might* wear through the hard anodizing after a million rounds. Let it rotate, it doesn't matter, its nothing to worry about. More FCG holes are damaged by people swapping the pins out every other week in an attempt to fix something that isnt broke...... If one wants to know the individual/company quoted, send me a pm. |
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How many screw-on components to an AR? Those few that do exist use lockwashers or jamnuts. Anything screwed together can come usnscrewed. This has to be no small part of the military avoiding the KNS pins,
The Geissele pins work just fine; no use fixing something that ain't broke. Moon |
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It is not a secret, as it is their website. Quoted:
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If one wants to know the individual/company quoted, send me a pm. It is not a secret, as it is their website. Most know where it came from. However, I did not want to directly drag a sponsor/ vendor into this train wreck. |
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Quoted: I know PFran42 will by soon recommending them, but Geissele doesn't recommend it. I will however, be picking up a set for my 9mm build. I can't wait to hear the backlash from people "calling me out" after having been so vocal against them. |
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Yeah, I'll be all about it as soon as the Bill-approved model comes out.... NOT. I will however, be picking up a set for my 9mm build. I can't wait to hear the backlash from people "calling me out" after having been so vocal against them. Quoted:
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I know PFran42 will by soon recommending them, but Geissele doesn't recommend it. I will however, be picking up a set for my 9mm build. I can't wait to hear the backlash from people "calling me out" after having been so vocal against them. I will be one of them. I can't wait. |
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Geissele SSF triggers are in use in the military albeit not by everyone. KNS... not so much. Quoted:
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Why isn't the military running Geissele triggers? Geissele SSF triggers are in use in the military albeit not by everyone. KNS... not so much. There is still a MIL-SPEC for floor wax, cigarette ashtrays, and toilet paper. Not because those specs are "better than commercial" or even that they are at all necessary today. Using "in use in the military" as an argument isn't as effective when you remember that some people still use condoms to blouse their boots (in uniforms that you blouse, anyway). Geissele triggers are superior to standard triggers for a number of reasons, not the lest of which are that they are made better, held to closer tolerances, and tested to much higher standards. That some military units use his triggers is more about this than some formalized military process. Not everything GI is "better," and not everything in GI's hands has to be officially approved by Big Army (thank God). (Not knocking the Army, but their formal approval processes, especially through Ordnance Corps, are a study in bureaucratic inefficiency.) Geissele's issue with KNS pins was two-fold: they are less rugged and consistent than Bill's pins, and his pins are a better fit for his parts. I heard something (here on ARFCOM) about Bill working with KNS to develop a pin set that meets his parts' standards and still helps protect receivers from hammer/trigger pin hole wear. |
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Most know where it came from. However, I did not want to directly drag a sponsor/ vendor into this train wreck. Quoted:
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If one wants to know the individual/company quoted, send me a pm. It is not a secret, as it is their website. Most know where it came from. However, I did not want to directly drag a sponsor/ vendor into this train wreck. Fair enough and very courteous of you. |
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There is still a MIL-SPEC for floor wax, cigarette ashtrays, and toilet paper. Not because those specs are "better than commercial" or even that they are at all necessary today. Using "in use in the military" as an argument isn't as effective when you remember that some people still use condoms to blouse their boots (in uniforms that you blouse, anyway). Geissele triggers are superior to standard triggers for a number of reasons, not the lest of which are that they are made better, held to closer tolerances, and tested to much higher standards. That some military units use his triggers is more about this than some formalized military process. Not everything GI is "better," and not everything in GI's hands has to be officially approved by Big Army (thank God). (Not knocking the Army, but their formal approval processes, especially through Ordnance Corps, are a study in bureaucratic inefficiency.) Geissele's issue with KNS pins was two-fold: they are less rugged and consistent than Bill's pins, and his pins are a better fit for his parts. I heard something (here on ARFCOM) about Bill working with KNS to develop a pin set that meets his parts' standards and still helps protect receivers from hammer/trigger pin hole wear. Quoted:
Quoted:
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Why isn't the military running Geissele triggers? Geissele SSF triggers are in use in the military albeit not by everyone. KNS... not so much. There is still a MIL-SPEC for floor wax, cigarette ashtrays, and toilet paper. Not because those specs are "better than commercial" or even that they are at all necessary today. Using "in use in the military" as an argument isn't as effective when you remember that some people still use condoms to blouse their boots (in uniforms that you blouse, anyway). Geissele triggers are superior to standard triggers for a number of reasons, not the lest of which are that they are made better, held to closer tolerances, and tested to much higher standards. That some military units use his triggers is more about this than some formalized military process. Not everything GI is "better," and not everything in GI's hands has to be officially approved by Big Army (thank God). (Not knocking the Army, but their formal approval processes, especially through Ordnance Corps, are a study in bureaucratic inefficiency.) Geissele's issue with KNS pins was two-fold: they are less rugged and consistent than Bill's pins, and his pins are a better fit for his parts. I heard something (here on ARFCOM) about Bill working with KNS to develop a pin set that meets his parts' standards and still helps protect receivers from hammer/trigger pin hole wear. You're crazy.. The government always knows what's best. The private market?? Pffft.. Morons all. 
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