AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/30/2014 4:56:00 PM EDT
| I just started shooting my buddies AR about 3-6 months ago, i haven't had HANDS ON practice with them before that but i have been studying them for many years. Including researching and contemplating my own custom builds. He has a standard Colt LE 9620 w/Knightarmco rear BUIS (200m-600m) and the standard A2 front sight. I verified all adjustments were squared away before we started sending rounds down range,however i'm not CONSISTENTLY getting 1"-1 1/2" groups at 50 yards. More like 6"-9" clusters. Could any one recommend some pointers/tips to help me get more consistent groups? We are shooting from a rest,thats the embarrassing thing Thanks in advanced....... |
| My problem is the 1-1/2" groups @ 50yds aren't consistent. i.e. i shoot several three round groups and its high left then low right then low left ext..... How can i improve my point of impact? so im shooting all groups in the center chest area? (assuming my point of aim is true) |
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Sorry, I re read that you are NOT getting 1 to 1.5 inch groups.
It is really hard to correct marksmanship errors on line. I would suggest google and download a copy of the USMC M16 Marksmanship Manual. You should have no problem getting a free copy to download. I have no idea what ammo your using, but most of the economical FMJ is not capable of the groups your looking for but is capable of doing better than what your getting. |
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I just started shooting my buddies AR about 3-6 months ago, i haven't had HANDS ON practice with them before that but i have been studying them for many years. Including researching and contemplating my own custom builds. He has a standard Colt LE 9620 w/Knightarmco rear BUIS (200m-600m) and the standard A2 front sight. I verified all adjustments were squared away before we started sending rounds down range,however i'm not CONSISTENTLY getting 1"-1 1/2" groups at 50 yards. More like 6"-9" clusters. Could any one recommend some pointers/tips to help me get more consistent groups? We are shooting from a rest,thats the embarrassing thing Thanks in advanced....... I've shot a bazillion rounds out of AR's in my life and even with all that experience I find my biggest limiting factor when shooting one from a bench is recoil aticipation. Right before the shot breaks, I sometimes tend to pull the shot as I anticipate the recoil. What helps me is to not think about it as much and not spend too much time "holding" on the target. Simply get it lined up and make sure its on point and make the shot. Sitting still trying to hold on your target in an attempt to get it "perfect" usually results in great anticipation of the shot. If the AR you are shooting has a MILSPEC trigger it can be a little difficult to be accurate with when you are new to the platform. I'd recommend going to the range again with a lot of ammo and a lot of targets. Don't rush yourself. Do a LOT of benched target shooting and aim for small groups. Find what works and what doesn't. Just relax and try not to anticipate the shot (and recoil) which can lead to "pulling" the shot and creating lots of flyers or larger than normal groups. |
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You must focus on the front sight, but you also have to have as fine an aiming point as possible.
Try a 3 inch round adhesive target or equivalent on your normal target. That should be just about the perfect size to fill up the width of the front sight at 50 yards. It is cliche but true: "Aim small, Miss Small". |
| Thank you, now that you mention it this ("Sitting still trying to hold on your target in an attempt to get it "perfect" usually results in great anticipation of the shot.") is what i'm doing. I will definitely try out your tips and find out what works for me, next time i go to the the range. |
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Thank you, now that you mention it this ("Sitting still trying to hold on your target in an attempt to get it "perfect" usually results in great anticipation of the shot.") is what i'm doing. I will definitely try out your tips and find out what works for me, next time i go to the the range. No problem. And welcome to this wretched sickness that is black rifle disease. Like I was saying though, just go to the range with a ton of targets and a lot of free time. Focus on your groups and just practice. If it gets boring or you are getting frustrated, just take a break and BS with a buddy for awhile and change targets then get back to it. You will get 1000 tips from people on the internet which is helpful, but going out and actually practicing is final. |
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Now that you say that I have about 2-3 times every 1 month to shoot, sometimes less  The unfortunate truth is that most gun owners shoot far less than once per month. So being able to shoot 2 or even 3 times per month is actually doing very good. During the summer I shoot almost daily but during the winter I only get to shoot once per week. Some people only shoot once per month. Some only shoot a handful of occasions per year. No matter your schedule, bring lots of ammo and targets and make training and bettering your skills a priority. Have the desire, and you will succeed. |
Go to an Appleseed. 
Best sixty bucks you'll spend for basic rifle marksmanship. You should expect about 4 MOA from an unsupported prone position with your rifle and ball ammo, or better. From a bench or supported prone (sandbag/bipod), 2-3 MOA is not unreasonable. I get 2-3 MOA with my PSA 20" A4 clone, irons, no free float, using XM193. At 50 yards, 4 MOA is 2". 6-9" clusters at 50 yards translates to something like 14 MOA. Even slow fire off-hand should be a lot tighter. Really, these sorts of things are best addressed by taking a decent class. Judging by your screen name I think you'll like what AS has to offer. |
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No problem. And welcome to this wretched sickness that is black rifle disease. Like I was saying though, just go to the range with a ton of targets and a lot of free time. Focus on your groups and just practice. If it gets boring or you are getting frustrated, just take a break and BS with a buddy for awhile and change targets then get back to it. You will get 1000 tips from people on the internet which is helpful, but going out and actually practicing is final. Quoted:
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Thank you, now that you mention it this ("Sitting still trying to hold on your target in an attempt to get it "perfect" usually results in great anticipation of the shot.") is what i'm doing. I will definitely try out your tips and find out what works for me, next time i go to the the range. No problem. And welcome to this wretched sickness that is black rifle disease. Like I was saying though, just go to the range with a ton of targets and a lot of free time. Focus on your groups and just practice. If it gets boring or you are getting frustrated, just take a break and BS with a buddy for awhile and change targets then get back to it. You will get 1000 tips from people on the internet which is helpful, but going out and actually practicing is final. I kind of disagree. Perfect practice makes perfect. If the OP has a bad habit (jerking the trigger, not focusing on the front sight, bad breath control, etc) all he is doing with practice is reinforcing bad habits. It takes MANY more repetitions to unlearn bad muscle memory than to learn properly from the get go. Additionally, if OP does not know how to diagnose his shot patterns or call his shots, he will waste a lot of time and ammo "practicing." There's plenty of basic marksmanship resources out there and lots of classes. I teach Appleseed and NRA Basic Rifle and I'll again say that hands down an AS is the best value in the industry for this type of basic skills development. You are far better off going to a class, learning the proper technique, and then practicing that technique at home with dry and live fire. Quoted:
Like has been stated, a good trigger makes a ton of difference. I wen't from my nasty stock Colt trigger to a 3.5 lb CMC single stage trigger and it improved my accuracy drastically. Good trigger and good ammo have gone a long way for me. If I am reading correctly, OP is talking about multiple scattered groups over 14 MOA on target. A good trigger is awesome; I have some Geisselle's and National Matches. But they help you fine tune a 3 MOA group into a 2 MOA group. Same thing for going to match ammo. Until the shooter can keep everything in a 4-6 MOA circle from an unsupported position with their rack-grade rifle, the problem is usually a software (person) problem, not a hardware (gear) problem. Better to spend money on training and ammo (and time on dry fire) than to pour money into gear. |
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My problem is the 1-1/2" groups @ 50yds aren't consistent. i.e. i shoot several three round groups and its high left then low right then low left ext..... How can i improve my point of impact? so im shooting all groups in the center chest area? (assuming my point of aim is true) If I am reading correctly, each individual group is 1.5" at 50 yards. However, the groups are spread out all over the place. That indicates to me most likely an issue with your sight picture. Assuming you are using irons, I suggest a 6:00 hold or "pumpkin on a post." Line up the top of the front sight post with the target. Alternatively, use a center mass hold. The bottom line is to pick one and consistently use it. If you are using a scope, just use center mass. Do not "chase" your shots at this point. Keep a consistent point of aim. If your group is 2-3" or better at 50 yards, and it is not where you want it to be, consider a sight adjustment. Rather than changing your point of aim to move the point of impact, you'll adjust the sights to move the POI to match your POA. At 50 yards, each inch on the target is about 2 MOA. So to move one inch on paper, a scope with 1/4 MOA clicks needs to go 8 clicks (if its a cheap scope, probably more like 6). If you're using irons, according to FM 3-22.9, each click on the front sight is 1.375 MOA (about .75" rounding for 50 yds) and each click of windage is 1 MOA (about 0.5" at 50). At Appleseed we teach all of this. |
Yes, i.e. one shot is center target, the next a flyer, then the third round is low 3" of the flyer. Then i reload my mag and the same thing but my group opens up more. I would like to shoot at least 9 rounds in a 4"-5" box. At my range i can only load three rounds at a time which is frustrating in itself.
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In regard to trigger control, do you have access to a laser? Dry firing, with the laser on, can reveal movement of the weapon when pulling the trigger. Another trick that some people have used is to place a a coin on the front sight post when dry firing. It helps to have someone balance the coin (a dime, for example), on the front sight after you have gotten into firing position. If you can break the trigger without disturbing the dime, then you should have pretty good control of the trigger. Concentrate on repeating that technique with live ammo, and you should have a good start.
Another way to find out if you are flinching, or slapping the trigger is to have someone load your magazine with a dummy round. Make sure you don't know which one it is. When you get to the inert round, any flinch will be a lot more obvious to you, and your shooting partner. If you are, in fact, anticipating recoil, you should see the rifle, or at least the muzzle, move when "firing" the dummy round, despite the rifle not actually firing. There is no recoil to obscure anything you are doing. Aside from that, I think the other posts have solid advice. Learn how to use the sights correctly, and aim small. A paster, or even a colored index card, can help you to focus on a smaller area. Also, be sure to use the smaller aperture, if possible, when shooting for precision. |
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Appleseed is highly recommended on this site. It evidently has helped out a lot of people.
I attended an event, but I felt like everything that was taught can be learned from the Marine marksmanship manual. Perhaps I didn't have the best instructors. Thinking about trying it again to see what I missed. |
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You need a live coach. You aren't on something consistently. Trigger control, breathing, cheek weld, somthing. Without seeing you it's damn near impossible to diagnose the problem or problems as it could be multiple
Try the trick of always having your nose us touching the charging handle to keep your head in the same place. Don't try to center the front post in the rear sight. Just focus on the post and your brain will center it. Keep a somewhat loose grip in the pistol grip, don't squeeze it tightly and make sure to pull the trigger straight to the rear. Try to shoot at the same point in your breathing. At the natural respite pause when you exhale and before you inhale, or let your breath out halfway, pause and fire. Don't try to hold too long or you'll get shaky. If you can't make the shot, breathe a few times and try again. |
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Fundamentals of Rifle Marksmanship
Cheesy, but covers it well. |
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