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Posted: 10/3/2013 11:03:26 AM EDT
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After asking around the Stoner community...... It was suggested to bring my question to the board.
I am familiar with Colt as well as Noveske. Question: What brand name of AR rifle manufacturer falls between Colt and Noveske? I have Colt and would like to upgrade but the jump to Noveske is expensive. Thanks, Hobo |
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After asking around the Stoner community...... It was suggested to bring my question to the board. I am familiar with Colt as well as Noveske. Question: What brand name of AR rifle manufacturer falls between Colt and Noveske? I have Colt and would like to upgrade but the jump to Noveske is expensive. Thanks, Hobo I'd guess Daniel Defense. Or maybe the KAC SR-15 for a few hundred more. |
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What features do you want? I'm an old school / old guy type of person. I'd like to be able to grab the butt of the stock and the front of the forearm and not be able to feel any "twist". I guess you could say I'd like more of a precision craftsmanship unit. Be able to move / shoot with iron sights and hit a 6" circle at 100 yards. Be able to run any ammo (223 / 556) I can get my hands on in a SHTF situation. Bottom line = When I pull the trigger, I want to hear "BANG". Thanks, Hobo |
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Quoted: I've gotten a lot of parts from BCM. I recently returned some and got a store credit and used it up. So far BCM has shown excellent customer service. The SBR that is my dedicated HD gun is all BCM except for the stripped receiver upon which it was built... and if it had given me any hiccups or hesitations at all I can assure you it would not be serving in that role. Take that for what it is worth.  |
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IMO Noveske isnt all that; I'd rank them just above Colt along with BCM/LMT. DD is about the same as Colt, but with more options. IMO the next step up from there is LT and KAC. It depends on which Noveske we're talking about. Their CMV barrels aren't anything special and are widely known to be the same FN CHF barrels as PSA, Spikes, Centurion, and BCM. However, the Noveske SS barrels are a work of art and are widely regarded as a top choice for a precision barrel (along with BCM's 410SS and Rainier's SS barrels). DD on the other hand makes their barrels in-house. Beyond that, their rails are second to none. I wouldn't put LMT above Colt. If anything, their MIM parts puts them a step below Colt. To me, BCM and Colt are on the same level for a basic Mil-spec carbine. BCM can get a little tricky with some of their more custom offerings, and the BFH barrels, but it looks like the OP is referencing a factory-built rifle, of which, BCM's models are basically equivalent to a Colt 6920. From there, you move up to things like DD with their rails, the Colt 6940 (monolithic) or the 6920 Socom II with the DD RIS II rail. Noveske, Larue, and KAC make great rifles, but are all boutique manufacturers with unique, non-standard parts built to achieve a certain set of goals, which may or may not match those of the individual purchaser. |
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RRA. Their barrels are Wylde chamber, meaning they can shoot 5.56 and .223 ammo. Plus their receivers are pretty tight fitting and are plenty accurate. A tight upper-to-lower fit does nothing to improve the rifle's performance, but may, in fact, be a detriment if you need a hammer and punch to separate the two. Add to that their semi-auto bolt carriers, 4140 steel barrels, dremeled feed ramps, commercial receiver extensions, non-staked castle nuts, etc and what you get is an overpriced pile of garbage. Furthermore, a properly-manufactured 5.56 chamber can also shoot 5.56 and .223 ammo. |
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Quoted: It depends on which Noveske we're talking about. Their CMV barrels aren't anything special and are widely known to be the same FN CHF barrels as PSA, Spikes, Centurion, and BCM. However, the Noveske SS barrels are a work of art and are widely regarded as a top choice for a precision barrel (along with BCM's 410SS and Rainier's SS barrels). Quoted: Quoted: IMO Noveske isnt all that; I'd rank them just above Colt along with BCM/LMT. DD is about the same as Colt, but with more options. IMO the next step up from there is LT and KAC. It depends on which Noveske we're talking about. Their CMV barrels aren't anything special and are widely known to be the same FN CHF barrels as PSA, Spikes, Centurion, and BCM. However, the Noveske SS barrels are a work of art and are widely regarded as a top choice for a precision barrel (along with BCM's 410SS and Rainier's SS barrels). |
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A tight upper-to-lower fit does nothing to improve the rifle's performance, but may, in fact, be a detriment if you need a hammer and punch to separate the two. Add to that their semi-auto bolt carriers, 4140 steel barrels, dremeled feed ramps, commercial receiver extensions, non-staked castle nuts, etc and what you get is an overpriced pile of garbage. Furthermore, a properly-manufactured 5.56 chamber can also shoot 5.56 and .223 ammo. Quoted:
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RRA. Their barrels are Wylde chamber, meaning they can shoot 5.56 and .223 ammo. Plus their receivers are pretty tight fitting and are plenty accurate. A tight upper-to-lower fit does nothing to improve the rifle's performance, but may, in fact, be a detriment if you need a hammer and punch to separate the two. Add to that their semi-auto bolt carriers, 4140 steel barrels, dremeled feed ramps, commercial receiver extensions, non-staked castle nuts, etc and what you get is an overpriced pile of garbage. Furthermore, a properly-manufactured 5.56 chamber can also shoot 5.56 and .223 ammo. 
My reply actually was in context to the OP's description. Quoted:
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What features do you want? I'm an old school / old guy type of person. I'd like to be able to grab the butt of the stock and the front of the forearm and not be able to feel any "twist". I guess you could say I'd like more of a precision craftsmanship unit. Be able to move / shoot with iron sights and hit a 6" circle at 100 yards. Be able to run any ammo (223 / 556) I can get my hands on in a SHTF situation. Bottom line = When I pull the trigger, I want to hear "BANG". Thanks, Hobo Doesn't sound like the OP wants the typical gear queer BCM/LMT/DD/orgasm milspec cookie cutter response ARFCOM is known for. Also doesn't sound like he wants to spend Noveske prices. I could be wrong though. |
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Thought thats what I just wrote? Noveske is about the same as BCM and LMT. I'd actually rate LMT a little higher than Noveseke. PAC-NOR is great and all, but LMTs Rock Creek single-point cut rifled barrels are arguably better. Quoted:
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IMO Noveske isnt all that; I'd rank them just above Colt along with BCM/LMT. DD is about the same as Colt, but with more options. IMO the next step up from there is LT and KAC. It depends on which Noveske we're talking about. Their CMV barrels aren't anything special and are widely known to be the same FN CHF barrels as PSA, Spikes, Centurion, and BCM. However, the Noveske SS barrels are a work of art and are widely regarded as a top choice for a precision barrel (along with BCM's 410SS and Rainier's SS barrels). I guess I misunderstood which Noveskes and which LMT's you were talking about. The MRP is somewhat of a unique animal vs the STD LMT Defender. |
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My reply actually was in context to the OP's description. Doesn't sound like the OP wants the typical gear queer BCM/LMT/DD/orgasm milspec cookie cutter response ARFCOM is known for. Also doesn't sound like he wants to spend Noveske prices. I could be wrong though. Quoted:
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RRA. Their barrels are Wylde chamber, meaning they can shoot 5.56 and .223 ammo. Plus their receivers are pretty tight fitting and are plenty accurate. A tight upper-to-lower fit does nothing to improve the rifle's performance, but may, in fact, be a detriment if you need a hammer and punch to separate the two. Add to that their semi-auto bolt carriers, 4140 steel barrels, dremeled feed ramps, commercial receiver extensions, non-staked castle nuts, etc and what you get is an overpriced pile of garbage. Furthermore, a properly-manufactured 5.56 chamber can also shoot 5.56 and .223 ammo.
My reply actually was in context to the OP's description. Quoted:
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What features do you want? I'm an old school / old guy type of person. I'd like to be able to grab the butt of the stock and the front of the forearm and not be able to feel any "twist". I guess you could say I'd like more of a precision craftsmanship unit. Be able to move / shoot with iron sights and hit a 6" circle at 100 yards. Be able to run any ammo (223 / 556) I can get my hands on in a SHTF situation. Bottom line = When I pull the trigger, I want to hear "BANG". Thanks, Hobo Doesn't sound like the OP wants the typical gear queer BCM/LMT/DD/orgasm milspec cookie cutter response ARFCOM is known for. Also doesn't sound like he wants to spend Noveske prices. I could be wrong though. Suggesting RRA is not in alignment with the "bottom line" portion of the OP's objectives. Neither, in any world, is RRA between Colt and Noveske, which is what the OP asked for. There's a good reason those that actually run their AR's recommend "mil-spec cookie cutter" stuff....it works. Is mil-spec a MINIMUM specification? Absolutely. Do companies like RRA, DPMS, Bushmaster, Windham, Olympic, etc even meet that MINIMUM spec? Nope, not even close; much less exceed it. |
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LA_357SIG, You just about hit the nail on the head. Good observations. Thanks, Hobo Quoted: My reply actually was in context to the OP's description. Doesn't sound like the OP wants the typical gear queer BCM/LMT/DD/orgasm milspec cookie cutter response ARFCOM is known for. Also doesn't sound like he wants to spend Noveske prices. I could be wrong though. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: RRA. Their barrels are Wylde chamber, meaning they can shoot 5.56 and .223 ammo. Plus their receivers are pretty tight fitting and are plenty accurate. A tight upper-to-lower fit does nothing to improve the rifle's performance, but may, in fact, be a detriment if you need a hammer and punch to separate the two. Add to that their semi-auto bolt carriers, 4140 steel barrels, dremeled feed ramps, commercial receiver extensions, non-staked castle nuts, etc and what you get is an overpriced pile of garbage. Furthermore, a properly-manufactured 5.56 chamber can also shoot 5.56 and .223 ammo. My reply actually was in context to the OP's description. Quoted: Quoted: What features do you want? I'm an old school / old guy type of person. I'd like to be able to grab the butt of the stock and the front of the forearm and not be able to feel any "twist". I guess you could say I'd like more of a precision craftsmanship unit. Be able to move / shoot with iron sights and hit a 6" circle at 100 yards. Be able to run any ammo (223 / 556) I can get my hands on in a SHTF situation. Bottom line = When I pull the trigger, I want to hear "BANG". Thanks, Hobo Doesn't sound like the OP wants the typical gear queer BCM/LMT/DD/orgasm milspec cookie cutter response ARFCOM is known for. Also doesn't sound like he wants to spend Noveske prices. I could be wrong though. |
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Quoted: Any decent rifle will meet your requirements. If you want something a little nicer I say build one and drop the cash on the features that are important to you. Hell just give us a budget and we'd be glad to help you decide how to spend it. I appreciate the time you folks have taken to reply. Hobo |
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Define "properly assembled". Is a lower made to exactly correct dimensions "properly assembled" if its made of plastic? Steel? Tapioca? Quoted:
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I dont get the "rating" of manufactueres thing. You either have a properly assembled AR15 or you do not... You are nit pickin... Properly assembled as in it works correctly. Fires, extracts, loads a new round, fires again, etc. I will never understand how an AR with a rail system and B/O iron sights and no optic costs 1500-3k. Just no reason for it and you are paying for the "brand" |
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