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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Knights SR15 Question (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 9/18/2013 10:46:38 PM EDT
| Are Knights SR15 E3 IWS Carbine Mod 1 an oustanding AR? Would you class them above most of the other AR-15's? I'm looking at selling 1 gun to possibly purchase one of these. I would like to hear what you guys think about the gun. Thanks for any replys |
| Fantastic rifle and great company. Ask to get this thread moved or go visit their subforum here |
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They are the sole AR manufacturer that has went beyond what every other has.
I saw a comment here the other day that summed KAC rifles up in general for the most part. "There are those who love KAC, and those who have never shot them." There's not a better all around factory rifle made. |
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I would hate to see the 3 ARs that you would buy for $2k.
Look hard at the Mod 1 and what it comes with. Thats why the price is what it is and it is very reasonable. Compare it to equal AR's, not the $650 monthly specials that have no where near the features the KAC rifle have. Additonally, keep an eye out for deals. I got my Mod 1 for under $1800. |
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It's a nice gun. You won't be disappointed.
I have the SR15 with the URX II handguards though so I can use magpul (or your brand of choice) rail covers. To me those odd-ball bolt-on covers on the newer Knights rails are flat-out ugly and uncomfortable (uncomfortable looking that is; I've never handled them in real-life) Seriously, it's a nice gun. |
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It's a nice gun. You won't be disappointed. I have the SR15 with the URX II handguards though so I can use magpul (or your brand of choice) rail covers. To me those odd-ball bolt-on covers on the newer Knights rails are flat-out ugly and uncomfortable (uncomfortable looking that is; I've never handled them in real-life) Seriously, it's a nice gun. Highly subjective , I really like the rail covers for the URX3. They have a cool ( to me) reverse snake skin thing going on. |
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They are good rifles, but no better then one your build yourself "IF" you use high end, quality parts.
People get reved up on KAC as they are a .Mil contractor. now, in order to contract to .Mil, you need to meet Uncle Sams pricing requirements. So on the back end in the civilian side, they raise pricing to help make up the lost margins. That's fact, can't be argued. Colt, LMT, every contractor does it. Search SR-25 issues, and you won't find a shortage of .Mil guys have issues at high round counts. That led to Gas system redesigns and improvements to the system. Its also why M14 EBR's started becoming mainstream, one we had a bunch, two they worked. The EBRs are heavier, longer, and may not be as accurate at the longest range. But they also keep running in conditions that AR style platforms failed, and clearly there was a need for more refinement Also can't be argued. Guys on this site drink a lot of cool aid, but its still a platform that's mechanical, and they certainly have had ups and downs. Are they worth the money, yes. Can you build an equivalent rifle for the same money or less. 100% |
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Best 5.56 gun on the market in my opinion, having owned a ton of other AR's/brands.
If you were to build a comparable rifle using standard parts, you wouldn't be able to put one together for the price KAC charges...and when you buy it from KAC you get the best bolt and lower out there. They're expensive, but they're loaded to the gills and in my opinion only need a new grip and an optic and they are ready to roll. |
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They are good rifles, but no better then one your build yourself "IF" you use high end, quality parts. People get reved up on KAC as they are a .Mil contractor. now, in order to contract to .Mil, you need to meet Uncle Sams pricing requirements. So on the back end in the civilian side, they raise pricing to help make up the lost margins. That's fact, can't be argued. Colt, LMT, every contractor does it. Search SR-25 issues, and you won't find a shortage of .Mil guys have issues at high round counts. That led to Gas system redesigns and improvements to the system. Its also why M14 EBR's started becoming mainstream, one we had a bunch, two they worked. The EBRs are heavier, longer, and may not be as accurate at the longest range. But they also keep running in conditions that AR style platforms failed, and clearly there was a need for more refinement Also can't be argued. Guys on this site drink a lot of cool aid, but its still a platform that's mechanical, and they certainly have had ups and downs. Are they worth the money, yes. Can you build an equivalent rifle for the same money or less. 100% So you're saying KAC makes the money it "loses" from mil sales back by civilian sales and it can't be argued? 
The only point you made that has any substance was your first sentence. The SR15 has many advancements that are unique to it. |
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So you're saying KAC makes the money it "loses" from mil sales back by civilian sales and it can't be argued?
The only point you made that has any substance was your first sentence. The SR15 has many advancements that are unique to it. Quoted:
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They are good rifles, but no better then one your build yourself "IF" you use high end, quality parts. People get reved up on KAC as they are a .Mil contractor. now, in order to contract to .Mil, you need to meet Uncle Sams pricing requirements. So on the back end in the civilian side, they raise pricing to help make up the lost margins. That's fact, can't be argued. Colt, LMT, every contractor does it. Search SR-25 issues, and you won't find a shortage of .Mil guys have issues at high round counts. That led to Gas system redesigns and improvements to the system. Its also why M14 EBR's started becoming mainstream, one we had a bunch, two they worked. The EBRs are heavier, longer, and may not be as accurate at the longest range. But they also keep running in conditions that AR style platforms failed, and clearly there was a need for more refinement Also can't be argued. Guys on this site drink a lot of cool aid, but its still a platform that's mechanical, and they certainly have had ups and downs. Are they worth the money, yes. Can you build an equivalent rifle for the same money or less. 100% So you're saying KAC makes the money it "loses" from mil sales back by civilian sales and it can't be argued?
The only point you made that has any substance was your first sentence. The SR15 has many advancements that are unique to it. No, I'm saying what .mil pay and what you pay are 2 different things. That can't be argued. You think they (.mil) pay $400 plus for a rail? That's a joke. So yes, the civilian market does "help" (key word you missed) make up margins. so a non mil-spec lower, and E3 bolt that you need proprietary parts to replace? That's seems better? I'm not trashing your rifle bro, just saying that their pricing and parts program isn't Gods Gift. |
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No, I'm saying what .mil pay and what you pay are 2 different things. That can't be argued. You think they (.mil) pay $400 plus for a rail? That's a joke. So yes, the civilian market does "help" (key word you missed) make up margins. so a non mil-spec lower, and E3 bolt that you need proprietary parts to replace? That's seems better? I'm not trashing your rifle bro, just saying that their pricing and parts program isn't Gods Gift. Quoted:
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They are good rifles, but no better then one your build yourself "IF" you use high end, quality parts. People get reved up on KAC as they are a .Mil contractor. now, in order to contract to .Mil, you need to meet Uncle Sams pricing requirements. So on the back end in the civilian side, they raise pricing to help make up the lost margins. That's fact, can't be argued. Colt, LMT, every contractor does it. Search SR-25 issues, and you won't find a shortage of .Mil guys have issues at high round counts. That led to Gas system redesigns and improvements to the system. Its also why M14 EBR's started becoming mainstream, one we had a bunch, two they worked. The EBRs are heavier, longer, and may not be as accurate at the longest range. But they also keep running in conditions that AR style platforms failed, and clearly there was a need for more refinement Also can't be argued. Guys on this site drink a lot of cool aid, but its still a platform that's mechanical, and they certainly have had ups and downs. Are they worth the money, yes. Can you build an equivalent rifle for the same money or less. 100% So you're saying KAC makes the money it "loses" from mil sales back by civilian sales and it can't be argued?
The only point you made that has any substance was your first sentence. The SR15 has many advancements that are unique to it. No, I'm saying what .mil pay and what you pay are 2 different things. That can't be argued. You think they (.mil) pay $400 plus for a rail? That's a joke. So yes, the civilian market does "help" (key word you missed) make up margins. so a non mil-spec lower, and E3 bolt that you need proprietary parts to replace? That's seems better? I'm not trashing your rifle bro, just saying that their pricing and parts program isn't Gods Gift. Can you spec a rifle that is equal to KAC's 5.56 lineup and compare it to the street price that they sell for? Curious what you come up with. |
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Um, mines a good start.
total build was $1796 upper reciever Mega Arms complete upper140 Daniel Defense Gas block70 Daniel Defense Barrel280 BCM BCG 168 BCM Charging handle 45 gas tube mid length15 gas tube roll pin0.5 12" Wilson Combat Trim rail w/ B-nut300 Troy folding HK front sight99 Troy folding rear sight119 surefire muzzle brake115 lower reciever YHM stripped lower129 Geissele SSA153 Daniel Defense LPK 90 Magpul enhance Trigger Guard 18 Magpul MIAD grip 35 ACE aluminum stock kit 110 $1796.5 So i came in less expensive, equivalent parts and eats EVERYTHING I've run through it including winter when its 10 degrees out. I should note, that i bought everything last fall before the panic, we're a surefire dealer, and the SSA was on sale. Oh, and i can get parts for it anywhere |
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No, I'm saying what .mil pay and what you pay are 2 different things. That can't be argued. You think they (.mil) pay $400 plus for a rail? That's a joke. So yes, the civilian market does "help" (key word you missed) make up margins. so a non mil-spec lower, and E3 bolt that you need proprietary parts to replace? That's seems better? I'm not trashing your rifle bro, just saying that their pricing and parts program isn't Gods Gift. Quoted:
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They are good rifles, but no better then one your build yourself "IF" you use high end, quality parts. People get reved up on KAC as they are a .Mil contractor. now, in order to contract to .Mil, you need to meet Uncle Sams pricing requirements. So on the back end in the civilian side, they raise pricing to help make up the lost margins. That's fact, can't be argued. Colt, LMT, every contractor does it. Search SR-25 issues, and you won't find a shortage of .Mil guys have issues at high round counts. That led to Gas system redesigns and improvements to the system. Its also why M14 EBR's started becoming mainstream, one we had a bunch, two they worked. The EBRs are heavier, longer, and may not be as accurate at the longest range. But they also keep running in conditions that AR style platforms failed, and clearly there was a need for more refinement Also can't be argued. Guys on this site drink a lot of cool aid, but its still a platform that's mechanical, and they certainly have had ups and downs. Are they worth the money, yes. Can you build an equivalent rifle for the same money or less. 100% So you're saying KAC makes the money it "loses" from mil sales back by civilian sales and it can't be argued?
The only point you made that has any substance was your first sentence. The SR15 has many advancements that are unique to it. No, I'm saying what .mil pay and what you pay are 2 different things. That can't be argued. You think they (.mil) pay $400 plus for a rail? That's a joke. So yes, the civilian market does "help" (key word you missed) make up margins. so a non mil-spec lower, and E3 bolt that you need proprietary parts to replace? That's seems better? I'm not trashing your rifle bro, just saying that their pricing and parts program isn't Gods Gift. I don't think you understand how you're using "margin" in your sentence. Your sentence reads that KAC loses money by selling to the mil and to make up for it they need/want civilian sales. I agree the mil and civilian prices are most likely different. I do not know what the mil pays, however. The proprietary parts do not bother me. If anyone can learn something about the last panics, it's that rifle parts regardless of quality or ambiguity will not be found. Boltcarrier is just a call away if I need anything I don't have. I really don't think you can assemble a rifle together that's the same quality as the Mod 1 for less, excluding some ridiculous sales. Eta Guess were counting DD barrels equivalent to KAC now... |
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Search SR-25 issues, and you won't find a shortage of .Mil guys have issues at high round counts. That led to Gas system redesigns and improvements to the system. Its also why M14 EBR's started becoming mainstream, one we had a bunch, two they worked. The EBRs are heavier, longer, and may not be as accurate at the longest range. But they also keep running in conditions that AR style platforms failed, and clearly there was a need for more refinement Also can't be argued. Meh. My M14 sucked balls. KAC was having issues with their 762 guns....but they've aggressively gone after those problems. There's a whole saga to the 110, Mk11, etc deal. You're going to have to work hard to replicate the features of a KAC rifle on a build. Not to mention, it's almost always cheaper to piece together a rifle (considering you're not paying a FET), especially if you're a savvy shopper/ buy off places like the EE. |
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I think you missed my above post about a build.
And if you don't understand dealer Margins, typically based on volume of sales, the price a dealer pays is 10-40% less so they can re-sell it and make a profit ETA: And DD barrels are sub Par? Dude, you need to calm down. They are both Chrome lined, hammer forged, and both 1-2MOA. I think that's pretty standard for a 5.56 until we get into match barrels |
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No, I'm saying what .mil pay and what you pay are 2 different things. That can't be argued. You think they (.mil) pay $400 plus for a rail? That's a joke. So yes, the civilian market does "help" (key word you missed) make up margins. so a non mil-spec lower, and E3 bolt that you need proprietary parts to replace? That's seems better? I'm not trashing your rifle bro, just saying that their pricing and parts program isn't Gods Gift. Quoted:
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They are good rifles, but no better then one your build yourself "IF" you use high end, quality parts. People get reved up on KAC as they are a .Mil contractor. now, in order to contract to .Mil, you need to meet Uncle Sams pricing requirements. So on the back end in the civilian side, they raise pricing to help make up the lost margins. That's fact, can't be argued. Colt, LMT, every contractor does it. Search SR-25 issues, and you won't find a shortage of .Mil guys have issues at high round counts. That led to Gas system redesigns and improvements to the system. Its also why M14 EBR's started becoming mainstream, one we had a bunch, two they worked. The EBRs are heavier, longer, and may not be as accurate at the longest range. But they also keep running in conditions that AR style platforms failed, and clearly there was a need for more refinement Also can't be argued. Guys on this site drink a lot of cool aid, but its still a platform that's mechanical, and they certainly have had ups and downs. Are they worth the money, yes. Can you build an equivalent rifle for the same money or less. 100% So you're saying KAC makes the money it "loses" from mil sales back by civilian sales and it can't be argued?
The only point you made that has any substance was your first sentence. The SR15 has many advancements that are unique to it. No, I'm saying what .mil pay and what you pay are 2 different things. That can't be argued. You think they (.mil) pay $400 plus for a rail? That's a joke. So yes, the civilian market does "help" (key word you missed) make up margins. so a non mil-spec lower, and E3 bolt that you need proprietary parts to replace? That's seems better? I'm not trashing your rifle bro, just saying that their pricing and parts program isn't Gods Gift. I hear you and agree with you on almost all mil contractor/ civilian rifle sellers/manufacturers. I do think that KAC is the exception to this general rule. though. First off you cant build a rifle that is equal to a KAC because of the advanced and improved propietary parts. Second.. considering that the build is already researched, developed and tested under $1800 is very reasonable as I cant seem to piece together top tier components for under 2k. Are you quoting your build price as typical consumer prices or dealer pricing? If your going on dealer pricing.. then I will have put up the price I payed for an SR15E3 as lower than the price you paid for your build. |
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 My Mod 1 was slightly cheaper
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Um, mines a good start. total build was $1796 My Mod 1 was slightly cheaper
But why no special grip? 
Good score man, I'm not sure why everyone is losing it here, all I'm saying is don't buy into all the perceived hype. Yes they make good rifles, I've stated that 3 times, but you can build one as well. |
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I think you missed my above post about a build. And if you don't understand dealer Margins, typically based on volume of sales, the price a dealer pays is 10-40% less so they can re-sell it and make a profit And DD barrels are sub Par? Dude, you need to calm down. Now you're moving on to dealers? I'm just going to move away from this financial bs, you have no idea what you're saying and it'll end up derailing the thread. I never said DD was sub par. They aren't KAC quality though. Throw a Noveske barrel on it. |
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But why no special grip?
Good score man, I'm not sure why everyone is losing it here, all I'm saying is don't buy into all the perceived hype. Yes they make good rifles, I've stated that 3 times, but you can build one as well. Quoted:
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Um, mines a good start. total build was $1796 My Mod 1 was slightly cheaper
But why no special grip?
Good score man, I'm not sure why everyone is losing it here, all I'm saying is don't buy into all the perceived hype. Yes they make good rifles, I've stated that 3 times, but you can build one as well. Haha, I did have to change the grip out. Your rifle sounds good but I'd argue not all the parts are equal to some of the KAC's parts. A glaring one is the ambi lower. You're also not paying the Federal tax that goes along with complete rifles. I do agree that most times you can build a rifle cheaper but that also requires some skill to build it correctly. For a turn key system, the KAC is hard to beat. I don't think everyone's losing their mind here, just some disagree more vehemently.  Lol, luckily we're not talking about Colt or PSA...
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"Guess were counting DD barrels equivalent to KAC now..." Your words Both are lined, HF, 4150. Seems equivalent Also, talking financial on a 2k rifle, doesn't derail a thread that's discussing opinions of a rifle. Seems part of the game. DD makes a fine barrel. Still not seeing where I said they are subpar. |
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DD makes a fine barrel. Still not seeing where I said they are subpar. Quoted:
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"Guess were counting DD barrels equivalent to KAC now..." Your words Both are lined, HF, 4150. Seems equivalent Also, talking financial on a 2k rifle, doesn't derail a thread that's discussing opinions of a rifle. Seems part of the game. DD makes a fine barrel. Still not seeing where I said they are subpar. Trying to see where they differ from each other, which is what you stated. Equivalent i believe is the word you used. If they are both made the same way, out of the same material, how is the KAC better then DD? |
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Trying to see where they differ from each other, which is what you stated. Equivalent i believe is the word you used. If they are both made the same way, out of the same material, how is the KAC better then DD? KAC has higher standards for their barrels than DD. Never seen DD claim that their barrels will get 2moa. I don't claim to know everything so I may be wrong. |
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Um, mines a good start. total build was $1796 upper reciever Mega Arms complete upper140 Daniel Defense Gas block70 Daniel Defense Barrel280 BCM BCG 168 BCM Charging handle 45 gas tube mid length15 gas tube roll pin0.5 12" Wilson Combat Trim rail w/ B-nut300 Troy folding HK front sight99 Troy folding rear sight119 surefire muzzle brake115 lower reciever YHM stripped lower129 Geissele SSA153 Daniel Defense LPK 90 Magpul enhance Trigger Guard 18 Magpul MIAD grip 35 ACE aluminum stock kit 110 $1796.5 So i came in less expensive, equivalent parts and eats EVERYTHING I've run through it including winter when its 10 degrees out. I should note, that i bought everything last fall before the panic, we're a surefire dealer, and the SSA was on sale. Oh, and i can get parts for it anywhere Not a bad setup. I paid less for my MOD1, and personally feel that the KAC quite a few parts that are SUBJECTIVELY better (meaning my opinion) than what you listed (the sights, stock, lower, bolt, handguard, intermediate gas system). Can you build a hell of a rifle for 1800? Yes you can, but I still find KAC to be a better bargain and love the fact that you get a warranty with it. |
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KAC has higher standards for their barrels than DD. Never seen DD claim that their barrels will get 2moa. I don't claim to know everything so I may be wrong. Quoted:
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Trying to see where they differ from each other, which is what you stated. Equivalent i believe is the word you used. If they are both made the same way, out of the same material, how is the KAC better then DD? KAC has higher standards for their barrels than DD. Never seen DD claim that their barrels will get 2moa. I don't claim to know everything so I may be wrong. KAC doesn't state what their barrels will do either. |
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A $1760 rifle Quoted:
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"Guess were counting DD barrels equivalent to KAC now..." Your words Both are lined, HF, 4150. Seems equivalent Also, talking financial on a 2k rifle, doesn't derail a thread that's discussing opinions of a rifle. Seems part of the game. A $1760 rifle You have a nice dealer! Again, that aspect still comes down to pricing margins and dealer volume. |
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KAC doesn't state what their barrels will do either. They do on their industry page from time to time. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_381/234795__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Mod_1_Accuracy_issue_.html&page=3#i2065512 |
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Its also why M14 EBR's started becoming mainstream, one we had a bunch, two they worked. The EBRs are heavier, longer, and may not be as accurate at the longest range. But they also keep running in conditions that AR style platforms failed, and clearly there was a need for more refinement Also can't be argued.
I don't have the specific reference so I can't cite it at the moment, but the last I was made to understand that for every three M14s, you could maybe scrape together one functional rifle that was reliable and accurate enough to deploy. It's just that we had so damn many of them in mothballs that had already been paid for, it was cheaper to keep cannibalizing them than to buy new weapons and their associated support packages. ~Augee |
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I paid less for my MOD1, and personally feel that the KAC quite a few parts that are SUBJECTIVELY better (meaning my opinion) than what you listed (the sights, stock, lower, bolt, handguard, intermediate gas system).
Can you build a hell of a rifle for 1800? Yes you can, but I still find KAC to be a better bargain and love the fact that you get a warranty with it. I think guys are misunderstanding my points, and the original post. Yes, you do get sling mounts and ambi-controls on the KAC. That's great if you need it and should be considered if that's the case. But Overall and in terms of usability, they aren't miles ahead of their competition. Stocks are subjective, i have to comply to MA laws, non adjustable. If i didn't, i could have save another $40 and bought one that comes stock on the KAC. Sights, i don't think they are better then Troy. Serve the same job, so equal. Bolt, hope you don't need parts in the field or you brought your own spare (whats that cost? vs $70 for a HP/MP tested, tool steel extractor setup) KAC Hand guards are heavy Intermediate gas system, I see its advantages, but again, find parts in the field. Its good to be different, but different doesn't mean better |
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You can't replicate a KAC.
The E3 bolt and gas system set it aside from any custom build, and any other factory build for that matter as well. Once again, shoot a KAC rifle - you'll feel what can't be replicated. You'd have to custom build a comp gun to try and replicate how a KAC shoots and feels. |
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Has anyone mentioned the enhanced bolt with radii designed to greatly reduce stresses and wear? In fact, has anyone seen a broken SR15 bolt? The intergrated QD points in the lower are unique, and the lowers are built completely ambi. The dude with the YHM lower doesn't have these features, so his rifle is not "equivalent" or "better." And what about resale value? You think some parts gun (even with nice parts) is going to retain it's value like a factory built rifle? No way. For around $1800 the KAC is a true value. And I don't even own one! |
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They do on their industry page from time to time. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_381/234795__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Mod_1_Accuracy_issue_.html&page=3#i2065512 Quoted:
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KAC doesn't state what their barrels will do either. They do on their industry page from time to time. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_381/234795__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Mod_1_Accuracy_issue_.html&page=3#i2065512 The SR-15's (non LPR) are not given a match definition, nor a MOA guarantee. Is what i got out of that. DD told me personally on the phone that i can expect 1.5" with the correct loads. What I've personally found (and this isn't excluding the possibility of a better then "average" DD barrel) But my 16" Middy, gov't profile will hold under 2" with BOTH m855 and M193. With Hornady match 75 rounds, it was just over 1" at 100 yards and a TA-11F Acog. |
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Quoted: I paid less for my MOD1, and personally feel that the KAC quite a few parts that are SUBJECTIVELY better (meaning my opinion) than what you listed (the sights, stock, lower, bolt, handguard, intermediate gas system). Can you build a hell of a rifle for 1800? Yes you can, but I still find KAC to be a better bargain and love the fact that you get a warranty with it. I think guys are misunderstanding my points, and the original post. Yes, you do get sling mounts and ambi-controls on the KAC. That's great if you need it and should be considered if that's the case. But Overall and in terms of usability, they aren't miles ahead of their competition. Stocks are subjective, i have to comply to MA laws, non adjustable. If i didn't, i could have save another $40 and bought one that comes stock on the KAC. Sights, i don't think they are better then Troy. Serve the same job, so equal. Bolt, hope you don't need parts in the field or you brought your own spare (whats that cost? vs $70 for a HP/MP tested, tool steel extractor setup) KAC Hand guards are heavy Intermediate gas system, I see its advantages, but again, find parts in the field. Its good to be different, but different doesn't mean better |
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Quoted: The SR-15's (non LPR) are not given a match definition, nor a MOA guarantee. Is what i got out of that. DD told me personally on the phone that i can expect 1.5" with the correct loads. What I've personally found (and this isn't excluding the possibility of a better then "average" DD barrel) But my 16" Middy, gov't profile will hold under 2" with BOTH m855 and M193. With Hornady match 75 rounds, it was just over 1" at 100 yards and a TA-11F Acog. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: KAC doesn't state what their barrels will do either. They do on their industry page from time to time. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_381/234795__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Mod_1_Accuracy_issue_.html&page=3#i2065512 The SR-15's (non LPR) are not given a match definition, nor a MOA guarantee. Is what i got out of that. DD told me personally on the phone that i can expect 1.5" with the correct loads. What I've personally found (and this isn't excluding the possibility of a better then "average" DD barrel) But my 16" Middy, gov't profile will hold under 2" with BOTH m855 and M193. With Hornady match 75 rounds, it was just over 1" at 100 yards and a TA-11F Acog. |
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Has anyone mentioned the enhanced bolt with radii designed to greatly reduce stresses and wear? In fact, has anyone seen a broken SR15 bolt? The intergrated QD points in the lower are unique, and the lowers are built completely ambi. The dude with the YHM lower doesn't have these features, so his rifle is not "equivalent" or "better." And what about resale value? You think some parts gun (even with nice parts) is going to retain it's value like a factory built rifle? No way. For around $1800 the KAC is a true value. And I don't even own one! I'm with you on that, and not that i said my build exceeded or offered the same. Someone said spec out a build that's close in quality. Barrels, arguable close, triggers, arguably close, bolts (the e3 may have advantages, but I've never broken a high quality bolt or extractor either) Maybe its because I'm not a full auto guy Proprietary parts have no business on a gun that requires maintenance. Those are luxuries, What happens if the company folds? |
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What happens if the company folds? Quoted:
What happens if the company folds? You really hate KAC huh? eta Quoted:
The effect of Marketing is incredible on the human mind. People are ready to fight over rifles that they probably don't even own....hahaha. Forums are full of awesome. Quite a few people in this thread own SR15s. Off topic posts, one thing internet forums can't live with out. |
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We get it. You like how you spent your money. But your rifle is not better in any way than a KAC. You are trying to argue it is equivalent, which may be subjective. But it is certainly not better. Quoted:
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KAC doesn't state what their barrels will do either. They do on their industry page from time to time. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_381/234795__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Mod_1_Accuracy_issue_.html&page=3#i2065512 The SR-15's (non LPR) are not given a match definition, nor a MOA guarantee. Is what i got out of that. DD told me personally on the phone that i can expect 1.5" with the correct loads. What I've personally found (and this isn't excluding the possibility of a better then "average" DD barrel) But my 16" Middy, gov't profile will hold under 2" with BOTH m855 and M193. With Hornady match 75 rounds, it was just over 1" at 100 yards and a TA-11F Acog. At what point did i say it was better? All I'm saying is you can build one that does the same thing. If you want to buy one, great. Have at your proprietary parts. Down the road long term, everything on mine is serviceable regardless what happens to any of the companies. And the Range Rover comment? After working a mechanic and in high end race cars my whole life, Much like BMW, Benz, Porsche, Audi. If your the first guy who owns it and have a warranty, you'll think that way. Let me know how many Range Rover owners are satisfied with their purchase 10 years later. Oh that's right, they sold it to someone else. Because of the maintenance that's required and price and availability of replacement parts |
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Are Knights SR15 E3 IWS Carbine Mod 1 an outstanding AR? Would you class them above most of the other AR-15's? I'm looking at selling 1 gun to possibly purchase one of these. I would like to hear what you guys think about the gun. Thanks for any replys OP original topic. I'm not sure where everyone is getting derailed here about my responses. He's looking for opinions. I have nothing against KAC, Nor have i said anything about there quality. If fact, I've repeatedly stated they do make a good rifle. Do i like their pricing model, not really. Have the prices come down in the last year, yes. Why, because not everyone was spending the money they were asking upfront for rifles and parts. I just find it funny that everyone is ready to jump on the Hot Rifle Company bandwagon. KAC, BCM, Noveske, DD, all make great rifles and parts. Just thought some feedback from someone with extensive experience in building mechanical items should be included. Like it or not, butt-hurt or not, there are $600 rifles out there that will perform just as well as my personal build, KAC's, and any other high end manufacture. |
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OP original topic. I'm not sure where everyone is getting derailed here about my responses. He's looking for opinions. I have nothing against KAC, Nor have i said anything about there quality. If fact, I've repeatedly stated they do make a good rifle. Do i like their pricing model, not really. Have the prices come down in the last year, yes. Why, because not everyone was spending the money they were asking upfront for rifles and parts. I just find it funny that everyone is ready to jump on the Hot Rifle Company bandwagon. KAC, BCM, Noveske, DD, all make great rifles and parts. Just thought some feedback from someone with extensive experience in building mechanical items should be included. Like it or not, butt-hurt or not, there are $600 rifles out there that will perform just as well as my personal build, KAC's, and any other high end manufacture. Quoted:
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Are Knights SR15 E3 IWS Carbine Mod 1 an outstanding AR? Would you class them above most of the other AR-15's? I'm looking at selling 1 gun to possibly purchase one of these. I would like to hear what you guys think about the gun. Thanks for any replys OP original topic. I'm not sure where everyone is getting derailed here about my responses. He's looking for opinions. I have nothing against KAC, Nor have i said anything about there quality. If fact, I've repeatedly stated they do make a good rifle. Do i like their pricing model, not really. Have the prices come down in the last year, yes. Why, because not everyone was spending the money they were asking upfront for rifles and parts. I just find it funny that everyone is ready to jump on the Hot Rifle Company bandwagon. KAC, BCM, Noveske, DD, all make great rifles and parts. Just thought some feedback from someone with extensive experience in building mechanical items should be included. Like it or not, butt-hurt or not, there are $600 rifles out there that will perform just as well as my personal build, KAC's, and any other high end manufacture. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yup. Marketing. |
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You really hate KAC huh? eta Quite a few people in this thread own SR15s. Off topic posts, one thing internet forums can't live with out. Quoted:
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What happens if the company folds? You really hate KAC huh? eta Quoted:
The effect of Marketing is incredible on the human mind. People are ready to fight over rifles that they probably don't even own....hahaha. Forums are full of awesome. Quite a few people in this thread own SR15s. Off topic posts, one thing internet forums can't live with out. Do you realize how often Manufactures come and go and how short their average span is? |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Knights SR15 Question (Page 1 of 3)
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