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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Colt BCG (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/11/2013 6:42:41 PM EDT
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I am really new to this.
Just bought my first Colt AR-15. Would like inputs regarding my BCG if it's a colt. First, the staking of the gas key screws quite missed the screws then the "C" marking is more of a dot matrix. This is from a 2013 config LE6920 SOCOM. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ybrik_5/BCG1_zps19b1250a.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ybrik_5/BCG2_zpsc7d3e017.jpg |
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Quoted:
I am really new to this. Just bought my first Colt AR-15. Would like inputs regarding my BCG if it's a colt. First, the staking of the gas key screws quite missed the screws then the "C" marking is more of a dot matrix. This is from a 2013 config LE6920 SOCOM. <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/ybrik_5/media/BCG1_zps19b1250a.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ybrik_5/BCG1_zps19b1250a.jpg</a> <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/ybrik_5/media/BCG2_zpsc7d3e017.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ybrik_5/BCG2_zpsc7d3e017.jpg</a> Whoah, never seen staking this bad on a Colt. |
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The bolt is marked MPC in dot matrix as well.
I will contact Colt this Monday. I think it would be fine to ship the BCG to them even from Canada as for warranty work. There's a guy here also local who shipped out a Colt 1911 slide to Colt Custom shop and he got it back with no issues as long as the warranty work and documentations are together with the item. It would be nice if Colt could somehow make arrangements with Colt Canada to make this right, but I doubt. |
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If the staking really concerns you, take a punch and ding the key opposite the two existing impressions, just like they were done by hand before the introduction of the automated press.
ETA: example of old style hand staking: http://www.megpro.com/ar/parts/earlysp1bcg.jpg |
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I believe the dotted matrix 'C' is legitimate on the 2013 Colts. But I would like to hear further confirmation. <a href="http://s3.photobucket.com/user/762minigun/media/20130416_102317_zpsce51d9fb.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/762minigun/20130416_102317_zpsce51d9fb.jpg</a> <a href="http://s3.photobucket.com/user/762minigun/media/20130416_101516_zpsbfa51a1e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/762minigun/20130416_101516_zpsbfa51a1e.jpg</a> This one came out of a 6920 purchased new in April. Looks like my 2011 Colt BCG.... Someone screwed up and it slipped through QC.....I'm betting Colt will correct the problem, remove that gas key and install a new one and stake it right |
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It looks like that carrier was in the staking machine about half a screw head off. The displaced metal is even, regular and symmetrical, indicating it was done by machine, probably one that does all four impressions at once. Any manual staking would not have missed the screw heads all four times...
Definitely something to take up with Colt. If they bothered to stake that key, they should have done it at least somewhat effectively, which this is not. |
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The C is fine, but the staking job is a HUGE FAIL!!!!!!!!
I would contact Colt and let them know this isn't what you expected when you shelled out the extra $$$$ for the Pony logo. If it is going to cost anything out of your pocket I would take 10min and simply do it yourself. This isn't rocket science here, what bothers me more than anything is if they let a defect like this leave the door, what else are they missing? Yes, I am a fanboy, how much of one is now questionable. 
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Hello, I happened upon this thread based on another thread I had started. I am curious if there is a thread that walks you through how to stake (or re-stake as necessary based on the OP's issue with the Colt bolt carrier) a bolt key. I know it may sound obvious, but I'd like to see what the correct process is. And my first question would be what tool you use. (A center punch?)
Thanks |
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Don't shoot it.
Take it back to the store you bought it from (which is why it's a good idea to buy from a local store, you might pay more, but you can expect/demand better service), point out the problem, and ask for a replacement of the BCG. The store can swap the BCG, and hassle the exchange with Colt. That's what you paid extra for. If you bought out of State, the FFL who handled the transfer for you doesn't own you anything, and Colt may not do anything for you either if you cannot prove that the gun came from a Colt Dealer. Unfortunately if you bought from a private party, you may be out of luck. You will have to try contacting Colt and throw appeal to their mercy. Worst case, you would have to buy a replacement carrier key and pay someone (or do it yourself) to install, torque, and stake the replacement key. Not that much money or time or effort. |
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Quoted:
And my first question would be what tool you use. I use the remnant handle part of a broken 1/16" punch and a standard hammer. Just like the tech manual says* for hand staking, about 1/16" back from the edge of the hole on the key, punch square to the key on the top and give it a ding with the hammer. Doesn't take a whole lot of force to make a dent with a 1/16" diameter punch tip. Two or three staking points symmetrically around the screw head, the idea is to displace a little metal from the key to push up against the knurled side of the screw head under the surface to make sure the screw doesn't start loosening up. The staking you see on new parts that is done from the sides, is done that way by a machine press in an automated process. That should be obvious from the OP's photo, that it goes into a press where all four impressions are made simultaneously... in this case, his BC was slightly out of position so the impressions are not exactly where they should be. They're still probably functional as staking, as I said before all I'd do if it was me is put a third staking point in opposition to the other two on each screw head using the manual staking method to balance the sideways force on the screw head. *Nobody apparently bothers to read the manual anymore. Quoted:
Take it back to the store you bought it from (which is why it's a good idea to buy from a local store, you might pay more, but you can expect/demand better service), point out the problem, and ask for a replacement of the BCG. The store can swap the BCG, and hassle the exchange with Colt. That's what you paid extra for. If you bought out of State, the FFL who handled the transfer for you doesn't own you anything, and Colt may not do anything for you either if you cannot prove that the gun came from a Colt Dealer. OP is in Canada. The cost of the tools to add staking to the key would be less than postage to ship the carrier. Quoted:
I am curious if there is a thread that walks you through how to stake (or re-stake as necessary based on the OP's issue with the Colt bolt carrier) a bolt key. I know it may sound obvious, but I'd like to see what the correct process is. The military tech manual describes how to stake the key with hand tools for repair/replacement. It's the way all the carriers were done up until the 90's (I think) when Colt switched to staking from the sides in a press, probably just for automation of their manufacturing process. The military manuals are linked from the front page of the website here - see: http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/TM9-1005-319-23.pdf Page 142. |
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I am really new to this. Just bought my first Colt AR-15. Would like inputs regarding my BCG if it's a colt. First, the staking of the gas key screws quite missed the screws then the "C" marking is more of a dot matrix. This is from a 2013 config LE6920 SOCOM. <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/ybrik_5/media/BCG1_zps19b1250a.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ybrik_5/BCG1_zps19b1250a.jpg</a> <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/ybrik_5/media/BCG2_zpsc7d3e017.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ybrik_5/BCG2_zpsc7d3e017.jpg</a> Whoah, never seen staking this bad on a Colt. same here man that's crazy I thought it might be off that bad by purpose. im no expert but I knew that looked awful odd looking. |
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These all came out of Colt rifles, produced in 2012, so anything is possible. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk47/jagdkommando/0FDD9623-4906-4AFA-9295-4A10158CDB5A-56224-00005880FC66DE3B.jpg Love the 4th one down. I mean at least they hit the OPS key somewhere. |
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Received the replacement bolt carrier with proper gas key staking today from Colt Defense.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ybrik_5/3___zpsd9b9bbcc.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ybrik_5/2___zps0276ab52.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ybrik_5/1___zpsfb8d1cc6.jpg The C mark this time is solid as compared to the dot matrix one from what I had sent them. So I think BC is not from the 2013 production. |
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One of the times I was looking for a Colt at WM, the store clerk would not allow me to take the rifle down to check the carrier staking. That could just be an idiot WM employee. I took down a Colt LE6920 SOCOM at WM last week before TOWMBO gave me a dirty look and said, "I thought we were just here for ammo." I did see that the BCG was staked though. |
| I have a 2013 config. Colt LE 6920. The stking job is perfect, markings are perfect, and has the white paint dot on the bcg as well. Glad to see Colt made it right for the OP and sad to see it had to be dealt with at all. I still hold faith that Colt is among the best choices in the AR market for a complete rifle although they do need to step their game up if they want to keep from losing more ground to such class acts as DD and BCM. |
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I have a 2013 config. Colt LE 6920. The stking job is perfect, markings are perfect, and has the white paint dot on the bcg as well. Glad to see Colt made it right for the OP and sad to see it had to be dealt with at all. I still hold faith that Colt is among the best choices in the AR market for a complete rifle although they do need to step their game up if they want to keep from losing more ground to such class acts as DD and BCM. Shit man how many 6920's do you think Colt has cranked out in the last 6 months? Shit happens no matter what class act your speaking of.... Colt made it right... Done deal.. |
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Imagine you're a guy (or a girl if that's your thing) and your job is to not make mistakes because your boss will be POed about production being down...
And especially during a panic Quality Assurance can only do so much. Maybe that staking person person didn't even realize they goofed. |
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Just so people stop bashing QC departments, it's important to note that except in very limited circumstances, almost NO product is 100% inspected by QC. That means that HP/MPI bolts are HP/MPI tested, but maybe not 100% micrometer gauged. And it means that if an automated machine that does key staking gets misaligned, it may be 10 or 50 carriers later that it's found. Once it's found, they may not be able to recover all the improperly staked carriers because some of them may have gone on to assembly.
In a mission critical part, QC would recover EVERY part since the last passed inspection and inspect each one manually while also working on how the machine got out of alignment (and hopefully a fix to keep that from happening again). The staking of a carrier key in a civilian gun may not qualify as "mission critical" to Colt, and I can't blame them for that. GI guns, on the other hand, have a MIL-SPEC to meet, which includes a certain level of staking on every single carrier, so it would be a mission critical part in that case. Being overwhelmed by production demands does not mean that any responsible manufacturer would allow slack in QC on purpose. But requiring parts to be available for assembly faster than they could be recovered in the case of this sort of QC issue is not "slacking." It's changing part of the manufacturing process without also ensuring that QC is staffed and provisioned to do the job. As a former QC boss, I'd have to say that ramping up production SHOULD require increasing QC oversight on parts that need to be delivered faster than they had been in the past. It's part of the "whole product" concept, starting with getting raw materials and common parts on hand, and going through the various manufacturing steps to assemblies, until you have a complete product. If you plan to put out 25% more products with the same equipment and processes, you need to increase inspections, at least for a while, to prevent the rush to put out products from causing the quality of your products to go into the crapper. Finally, stuff happens. The basic QC department also is responsible for "post mortem" work, figuring out why returns needed to be returned. Giving Colt a chance to see what happened gives them a chance to fix the immediate problem, AND to do that second QC step: figure out why it could happen so that can be prevented in the future. |
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Quoted: In my opinion, the staking in your photos is too aggressive. The metal has been displaced so far that it has been sheared. I'm sure it won't hurt anything, but DAMN!Quoted: I believe the dotted matrix 'C' is legitimate on the 2013 Colts. But I would like to hear further confirmation. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/762minigun/20130416_102317_zpsce51d9fb.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/762minigun/20130416_101516_zpsbfa51a1e.jpg This one came out of a 6920 purchased new in April. |
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In my opinion, the staking in your photos is too aggressive. The metal has been displaced so far that it has been sheared. I'm sure it won't hurt anything, but DAMN!
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I believe the dotted matrix 'C' is legitimate on the 2013 Colts. But I would like to hear further confirmation. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/762minigun/20130416_102317_zpsce51d9fb.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/762minigun/20130416_101516_zpsbfa51a1e.jpg This one came out of a 6920 purchased new in April. I agree with you but the tacticool mob is demanding ridiculous "staking" so it doesn't surprise me that manufacturers are obliging. Swaging instead of staking. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Colt BCG (Page 1 of 2)
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