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Posted: 5/4/2013 9:13:28 PM EDT
Here are your upper specs specs :
And your Buffering options:
or JP Tuned and Polished AR15 Buffer Spring - Carbine With any of the above buffers? Currently running Colt BCG JP/H2 and it hits the shoulder like a rock. I've done some of my own tests also including failzero NiB ,Colt, and Spikes BCG's. *We can also assume all combinations perform without issues wolf, bolt catch last round, etc... Just trying to get some good pros/cons and general knowledge.... |
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I have that same set up in a few of my guns. Go with the Colt carbine spring with the "H" buffer. Shoots 100 % reliable with hot military ammo, like Federal M193. And just about no recoil!
Can't speak for J P products. They make some super accurate riffles, but some of there parts may be set up more for a target gun shooting light loads. Also Wolf ammo is usually loaded weaker than say M193. So something like a standard cabine buffer would be better. |
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Quoted:
Am I missing something or are options 2 and 3 the same. The Spikes T2 buffer is the same as an H2 buffer. I would go with standard spring and an H buffer first. I have never messed with those "enhanced" springs and I never intend to. I have always heard from a reliable source on this forum that the spikes buffers aren't true "buffers" do to the powder's weight doing the buffering rather than the sliding affect of the weights. They work like an H2 though yes although I wouldn't say they are the same. The basic question is with the JP spring and H2 Buffer while it works reliably the felt recoil and the impulse has changed significantly from standard springs. Trying to figure out why or I guess the science as to why it was such a felt difference. |
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Quoted:
I have that same set up in a few of my guns. Go with the Colt carbine spring with the "H" buffer. Shoots 100 % reliable with hot military ammo, like Federal M193. And just about no recoil! Can't speak for J P products. They make some super accurate riffles, but some of there parts may be set up more for a target gun shooting light loads. Also Wolf ammo is usually loaded weaker than say M193. So something like a standard cabine buffer would be better. I for the most part only shoot m193 and m855 only shoot wolf as of late to keep more of the military ammo on hand. While I agree JP tends to be more on the "MATCH" side this spring is +7% in power, shorter, and polished compared to a colt or similar carbine spring but the shooting experience is much different really hard to put into words. It's a very smooth and consistant hard push back very linear. |
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Well the biggest "pro" of your second option there - Colt recoil mainspring + H2 buffer is that it is the factory recommended combination for which the upper assembly is intended, and has been extremely extensively tested... like on almost every M4A1 used by U.S. forces since 2001.
I am not a fan of Kool-Aid filled buffers - I'm not an engineer - but I suspect there is a reason that the factory buffer is not a single weight of the desired mass, but three separate weights with rubber buffers separating them, allowing them to sequentially buffer the movement of the reciprocating parts. The H2 or "HH" buffer was specifically designed for the barrel profile/gas system combination that you are planning to run - tests of the M4A1 using the H buffer revealed a tendency for bolt bounce with the HB-profile M4 barrel. I've heard a lot of good things about Springco springs, but honestly see little need to "improve" upon the Colt factory springs. I suspect (with little documentation to go on, but just a hunch...) that the popularity of "enhanced" recoil mainsprings is a result of some commercial manufacturers using whatever springs they could find that were roughly the same size and coil count without bothering to try to find the proper springs. JP, of course, focuses on competition guns - from what I've seen, all of their products are top notch - but they're also mostly designed to shave fractions of seconds off of competition times, which may mean the difference between first and second place... however, the practical importance of these enhancements in the context of a "fighting" gun is often minimal. ~Augee |
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Quoted:
Well the biggest "pro" of your second option there - Colt recoil mainspring + H2 buffer is that it is the factory recommended combination for which the upper assembly is intended, and has been extremely extensively tested... like on almost every M4A1 used by U.S. forces since 2001. I am not a fan of Kool-Aid filled buffers - I'm not an engineer - but I suspect there is a reason that the factory buffer is not a single weight of the desired mass, but three separate weights with rubber buffers separating them, allowing them to sequentially buffer the movement of the reciprocating parts. The H2 or "HH" buffer was specifically designed for the barrel profile/gas system combination that you are planning to run - tests of the M4A1 using the H buffer revealed a tendency for bolt bounce with the HB-profile M4 barrel. I've heard a lot of good things about Springco springs, but honestly see little need to "improve" upon the Colt factory springs. I suspect (with little documentation to go on, but just a hunch...) that the popularity of "enhanced" recoil mainsprings is a result of some commercial manufacturers using whatever springs they could find that were roughly the same size and coil count without bothering to try to find the proper springs. JP, of course, focuses on competition guns - from what I've seen, all of their products are top notch - but they're also mostly designed to shave fractions of seconds off of competition times, which may mean the difference between first and second place... however, the practical importance of these enhancements in the context of a "fighting" gun is often minimal. ~Augee You always Deliver! It still begs the question of why adjusting the spring weight v.s. the buffer alone. I bought it because I had money, like shiny things and I like to tinker. After running it though I would assume it more or less part of a system rather than a part. |
| I'm going to change out the JP with the colt spring and leave the H2 Buffer. I will say in my mid length with the NiB S/A carrier and ST-2T ( standard spring) the recoil is very minimal and dead reliable. In a middy system with a S/A carrier I could see the JP recoil spring adding quite a bit of dwell time with heavier buffer. |
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Quoted:
Augee, This is a sincere question not a smart alec one. How many buffers have you taken apart? Do your weights stick together to the pads to make 1 reciprocating mass? Mine did. I can't honestly recall when the last time I took one apart was, but I don't specifically remember them having stuck together as a single piece, but I didn't really take note of it. I don't usually see a need to take them apart and/or mix and match. Even stuck together, though, the rubber padding versus a single metal weight would still behave differently I would think... again, I'm not an engineer, though. While the H and H2 use a combination of steel and tungsten weights, the standard carbine buffer and rifle buffer feature separate steel weights as well. The Edgewater buffer that was replaced by the current standard rifle buffer used ring springs, and was more of a guide rod with no reciprocating weight. ~Augee |
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