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Posted: 3/11/2013 6:34:17 AM EDT
| Hi all. I recently aquired a DPMS AR-15 panther 5.56/.223 rifle. I'd like to know if the parts on it can be replaced to make it look like a USGI M16a1. Right now, the hardguard is different, and the front sight is different. Is it possible to replace the parts on the DPMS to make it look like an M-16a1 configurated weapon? Of course, without any Machine gun parts, i.e. selector and accessories. I was looking it over, and I'm not sure I can get the proper handguards and if I can, would they fit. Also, the front sight on the DMPS is totally different, and is mounted to a railing instead of directly on the barrel. As you may have noticed, I'm really new at the gun modification business. Although I carried an M-16a1 in Vietnam, other than using it and cleaning it, I'm pretty unfamiliar with replacing stuff, but my goal is to obtain weapons that I carried in the Military, or make modifications to civilian equivalents to make them resemble them. I also have an M1A that I have made some changes to, by adding the standard M14 flash suppressor and bayonette lug. I may at some time, purchase an M14 stock, but am still a little undecided as the M1A and M14 stock look the same except for the cutout for the selector. I also own an M-1 Garand, which doesn't require any changes. Its the same as the one I took basic training with. I still need to come up with an M1 carbine, and a USGI (preferrably Colt) M1911A1 .45 which I also carried at times in the military. Anyway, right now, I am working on my DPMS AR-15. Any help? Regards, Bill |
| You can pretty much change out anything you want. Just depends on how much you want to get into it. Pics would help with the details but you can likely replace the gas block with a FSB. Need to see if you have a government profile barrel also. As for the hand guards, you can pretty much drop in any replacements you want to with little effort. As long as you have a carbine length gas system (which I believe you do), just find the ones you want in carbine length. |
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I'd gladly provide a picture of my AR-15 if I knew how to. I do not see a selection for uploading pictures. Well, I found the instructions for posting pictures. Too complicated. If I can't post directly from my hard drive, guess I just won't post any pictures. I'll find out the information I'm asking from somewhere that is simpler to use. Regards,
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Quoted:
I'd gladly provide a picture of my AR-15 if I knew how to. I do not see a selection for uploading pictures. 1. Take a picture. 2. Put it on your computer... where you can find it preferably. 3. Go to www.tinypic.com and upload the picture. 4. Copy the [IMG] link and post it here in a reply. 5. ??? 6. Profit. |
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Eh. you should sell the upper on the EE here or locally and then buy an FN M16 upper from the EE when one pops up.
You CAN easily modify your current upper to look exactly like what you carried in Nam, but from what you have already alluded to as far as your skill level it might be something out of your depth. Essentially you will need to swap the barrel out to a 20" A1 profile (Lightweight/Pencil whatever you want to call it ) Then install that barrel into an A1 upper Put on some handguards and you are good to go. You will actually be building a complete upper so you still would be better off just selling your upper and buying a complete own or parts. Poke around here - Equipment Exchange in like a month after the panic prices hit bottom and start shopping, right now would NOT be the right time to make this purchase. You should be paying about $450 MAX for your upper minus BCG. Hell you could find those uppers for more like $350 before the panic. So bid your time, sell your upper now and keep watch on the used uppers section. |
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http://i50.tinypic.com/4g3cat.jpg
OK, the instructions above seem pretty simple. I did what was indicated and am providing the image as indicated. I actually took 3 pictures and uploaded them, but they all have the same url?? Anyway, can I strip down what I have and add the correct stuff for an M16 look alike. The upper and lower handgrips seem different to me than I remember, and the front sight is completely different. I've already replaced the collapsible stock with one that is similar to what I had. Also, not sure exactly what the parts I am needing are called. Seems I have to learn more about computers than I really wanted to. Here is another url for what I hope is another picture. http://i50.tinypic.com/2qutbx0.jpg |
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What you have there is a 16" Carbine... You want a 20" rifle.
Now if you want to keep the upper receiver (flat top) and carry handle (removeable) like you have instead of going to a fixed carry handle only receiver you have a couple options - 1. Replace entire upper with a M16A1 upper as stated. 2. Replace barrel and hand guards ONLY with a M16A1 barrel and rifle length hand guards. 3. Make a mock "dissipator" or "dissy" which is a 16" barrel with a carbine length gas system and rifle length hand guards and fixed front sight. A dissy looks like this - 
Other configs here - Images I personally LOVE the dissy style... it combines the best of both worlds... light and maneuverable with a full length sight radius. The dissy mod would be the cheaper than the barrel swap and easier. |
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Hey Bill,
Welcome aboard and thank you for your service in Vietnam. The FIRST thing you want to do is Google "AR acronyms" so you know what all of these guys are talking about. The first link is to an AR-15.com page but I haven't been able to find it here so I just keep it saved. Link anyone? Seriously, if a Noob (like me) is asking basic questions then answering him in "AR Talk" isn't going to get him anywhere but frustrated. Then...open a Photobucket account (again with the google) and post pics of what you have. The guys on this site will help you build a rifle as close to what you are wanting as possible.....you just need to understand their language and they need to see your rifle. I would love to see a pic when you're done with it. Good luck Brother! Edit....didn't see the pics....you're on your way.... |
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FAQ - http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/492084_AR15_Discussions__FAQ___Read_First_.html
Acronyms - http://www.ar15.com//content/page.html?id=254 Useful info - http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237 Forum Rules Those are what every new member needs to know 
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Thanks Brothers....Looks like I can't just make a few changes to my DPMS AR-15 Panther and obtain the look I want. I have a CCR license, so if I can find something listed as Collector, curio, or relic, I can buy directly (and through the mail even) according to the ATF, but they say that it has to be 50 years old or older and I doubt that there are any original M-16's available that fit that bill. Since I'm also working on M14 lookalike, it is probably easier to find one of those. The way I read this document ATF Publication 5300.11 You can obtain just about anything as long as you cough up enough money for the Feds license. What's really hilarious is that on page 46, it lists the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) Model 1918A2 mfd by New England ARms Corporation prior to 1946 as a weapon classified as curios or relics under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44. Now, I always thought that the BAR was a machine gun, but according to this document, if I can find one, I can legally own it. It lists a lot of others, such as Colts 1921 & 1921A1 model 52 and 52A .50 cal., water-cooled machinegun, and lots of other machine guns and machine rifles. Basically, with the CCR license, its legal to own almost any machine gun or machine rifle, including aircraft machine guns made before 1945. I wonder if there is a rifle range anywhere that would let you fire one of these weapons. Anyway, getting back to my issue, the Springfiled arms Rifle, US Cal .30, M-14, and the Colt US Cal. 5.56mm M-16 are not listed.....shucks.
What I am gathering from you guys is that I have to buy an M-16 Upper? (Is this the barrel assembly?), and the handguard. do these come with the various gas plugs and stuff you guys are talking about, or do I have to get each piece separately, and fit it all together? I guess the length of my current AR15 's barrel is too short for what I want to do. Regards, Bill |
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Bill,
You'll need a kit like this plus a 20" A1 barrel. I do not know the quality of the specific kit I linked to. Check with the guys in the retro forum. Read this thread in particular. Basically, with the current upper receiver you have, basically everything would get changed except for the bolt and charging handle. With your lower receiver, your grip and stock are incorrect. I might be forgetting a few things as I'm not an A1 expert. To offset the cost, you can sell your current upper, although I would keep the bolt carrier group and charging handle. Your C&R will come in handy if/when sourcing parts from Midway and Brownells since they offer C&R discounts. Otherwise, everything on an AR-15 can be shipped to your doorstep without any type of FFL except for the stripped lower receiver. |
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Quoted:
Thanks Brothers....Looks like I can't just make a few changes to my DPMS AR-15 Panther and obtain the look I want. I have a CCR license, so if I can find something listed as Collector, curio, or relic, I can buy directly (and through the mail even) according to the ATF, but they say that it has to be 50 years old or older and I doubt that there are any original M-16's available that fit that bill. Since I'm also working on M14 lookalike, it is probably easier to find one of those. The way I read this document ATF Publication 5300.11 You can obtain just about anything as long as you cough up enough money for the Feds license. What's really hilarious is that on page 46, it lists the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) Model 1918A2 mfd by New England ARms Corporation prior to 1946 as a weapon classified as curios or relics under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44. Now, I always thought that the BAR was a machine gun, but according to this document, if I can find one, I can legally own it. It lists a lot of others, such as Colts 1921 & 1921A1 model 52 and 52A .50 cal., water-cooled machinegun, and lots of other machine guns and machine rifles. Basically, with the CCR license, its legal to own almost any machine gun or machine rifle, including aircraft machine guns made before 1945. I wonder if there is a rifle range anywhere that would let you fire one of these weapons. Anyway, getting back to my issue, the Springfiled arms Rifle, US Cal .30, M-14, and the Colt US Cal. 5.56mm M-16 are not listed.....shucks. What I am gathering from you guys is that I have to buy an M-16 Upper? (Is this the barrel assembly?), and the handguard. do these come with the various gas plugs and stuff you guys are talking about, or do I have to get each piece separately, and fit it all together? I guess the length of my current AR15 's barrel is too short for what I want to do. Regards, Bill Unless you're planning to buy another lower receiver (the part with the serial number), you don't need any type of license to get what you want to your door. Buy any barrel (over 16") you want and have it delivered to your doorstep. Buy your A1 upper receiver, triangle hand guards, A1 stock and grip, anything. You can buy all of the parts separately or you can buy the fully assembled upper receiver. All you need to do is pop the two pins that connect the upper and lower receivers and install the new A1 (M16 style) upper. There is no age requirement for mail ordering any part of your project except for the lower receiver (which requires an FFL to handle the transfer). Your state laws may prohibit certain magazines or features such as a bayonet lug, so check your local ordinances to be sure. Have fun with your project. |
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The information you have provided is really great. For a novice, like me, it is very informative. The weapon I carried in Vietnam 67-68 was the M16A1...I was fortunate enough not to have gotten one of the first production M16's, and I really liked my weapon for its firepower, accuracy and range. That's why I would like an AR as close to my M16A1 as I can get. Unfortunately, I've found a number of sites that were advertising complete M16A1 uppers, but everyone had already been sold. I guess they don't last long. I was also unable to find many of the separate parts to build my own available. I only have the AR15 combo tool that I used to replace the butt Stock. It would be fun to try to put one together, but, not being an armorer or gunsmith, I might not have the expertise or tools needed, that's why I was looking for an M16A1 complete upper Assembly. It would be awful to try and put something together myself, and wind up ruining it. We have a gun show in April (if Feinstein and her anti-gun group don't spoil it). Hopefully, I might be able to find what I want there. The california law against flash suppressors and bayonette lugs was allowed to expire a couple of years ago, so its legal to have them now. That's why I added the flash suppressor w/bayonette lug to my M1A.
Anyway, thanks so much for the information guys. I now have the information if not the knowledge, to accomplish what I want to do. |
| As far a assembly they are not terribly hard to assemble you will need a few special tools, but other than that fairly easy and straight forward, lots of write ups and videos on the internet. You will need a vise block for the upper, an AR15 armors wrench, a torque wrench, and set of punches. I guess this might be the way I would go due to current issues with gun parts. Finding an upper especially and A2/A1 upper which is not vogue anymore maybe tough to find. |
| I have hunted for an M16A1 upper complete assembly, as well as a kit, and even the separate items, but haven't been able to find all I would need. I did find an M16A2 complete upper assembly. What is the difference between the M16A2 and M16A1 upper assembly. The only difference I can see is that the M16A2 picture I found doesnt have the triangular hand guards, is that the only difference? Does anyone know why they kept making variations of the M16....i.e. A1, A2, A3, and A4? I can understand the A1, because that fixed a problem that caused them to jam in combat conditions, but other than that, my M16A1 I fought with served me well, and I liked it a lot. If its important revisions that affect its reliability, safety, or bullistics, what's the difference between them. |
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Quoted:
I have hunted for an M16A1 upper complete assembly, as well as a kit, and even the separate items, but haven't been able to find all I would need. I did find an M16A2 complete upper assembly. What is the difference between the M16A2 and M16A1 upper assembly. The only difference I can see is that the M16A2 picture I found doesnt have the triangular hand guards, is that the only difference? Does anyone know why they kept making variations of the M16....i.e. A1, A2, A3, and A4? I can understand the A1, because that fixed a problem that caused them to jam in combat conditions, but other than that, my M16A1 I fought with served me well, and I liked it a lot. If its important revisions that affect its reliability, safety, or bullistics, what's the difference between them. Flash hider changed, rear sight assembly changed, handguards changed, FCG changed (auto to burst), barrel contour changed, twist rate changed, stock length changed, grip changed, delta ring changed. |
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Well, I've decided to do both the A1 and the A2. I like the A1 for reasons stated before, and the A2 seems to be a superior weapon for firing heavier grain bullets and can reach out and touch someone better than the A1. All I have to do now, is get the parts or complete upper assemblies, whichever comes first...I've found A1 and A2 kits, but neither of them has the barrel, and I have been unsuccessful in finding barrels. The science of economics doesn't seem to apply to barrels, complete uppers, or even a lot of the parts for the uppers. If it did, there would be some of these things available, since I have found a lot of guys looking for them. My guess is that this is an artificial shortage just to run up the prices, so I guess the manufacturers must be rolling in dough.
By the way, does anyone know what a TRR15A1 or TRR15A2 upper is? I've never run into any TRR? the 15A1 or 15A2 I presume is the A1 or A2 type upper assembly group I'm looking for, but TRR has me bothered. I hope it isn't some non-working replica, or one of those other not real weapons uppers. Regards, Bill |
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