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Posted: 11/27/2012 3:29:42 AM EDT
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Just pick up a Windham AR 15 with a Vortex strike fire scope it seams to be very will made and shoots right now about a 2.5 group at 100yards.
thats on a rest not free hand. Does any body else have an thoughts on this new company. |
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Look into the history of the company and you will find many threads on them here. Bushmaster - then Windham through an employee buyout after Bushy left.
Opinions for the most part support that it is a decent rifle for the money. The main issue is the employees making them are the same ones that made some pretty crappy Bushmasters at one time. |
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Great the know it all Windham bashers have arrived. Those who don't own one or have never seen one. FAC had nothing but good words about Windham... I don’t have a “problem” with windham as long as people understand what they are buying. You are not buying a “just as good as colt but cheaper” you are buying a lower grade AR. The price is lower because various materials, testing and manufacturing processes were omitted. Example, the gas keys. Bushmaster / Windham does not aggressively (ie read properly) stake the gas key. Its like putting 4 lug nuts on your rim because it will “probably be fine” vs just putting all 8 and KNOWING you will be fine. Its cheaper to put 4…but I don’t want to pay for that compromise. There is a lot of snobbery in the AR world so be ready for that…most people just cant understand why you would ever NOT buy a Colt, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense etc… If I was only ever going to go to the range and never put my life on the line I would be fine with a stag, rra, windham, etc… As I use my rifle for home defense…I went with the best because my family’s life is worth it. TLDR: Bla bla bla congrats on your purchase, enjoy your rifle and shoot the hell out of it. -J |
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Just pick up a Windham AR 15 with a Vortex strike fire scope it seams to be very will made and shoots right now about a 2.5 group at 100yards. thats on a rest not free hand. Does any body else have an thoughts on this new company. Shooting military type ball ammo and a red dot optic isn't going to provide you with the true accuracy potential of your carbine. If you're getting 2.5" at 100 yds., I would suspect that if you were to load up some good factory stuff or even hand loads, play around with different bullet weights, and the use of a scope, you'll probably see group size shrink to MOA or tighter. As far as a Windham product goes, there's not a damn thing wrong with them. Enjoy your new carbine! |
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Great the know it all Windham bashers have arrived. Those who don't own one or have never seen one. FAC had nothing but good words about Windham... I don’t have a “problem” with windham as long as people understand what they are buying. You are not buying a “just as good as colt but cheaper” you are buying a lower grade AR. The price is lower because various materials, testing and manufacturing processes were omitted. Example, the gas keys. Bushmaster / Windham does not aggressively (ie read properly) stake the gas key. Its like putting 4 lug nuts on your rim because it will “probably be fine” vs just putting all 8 and KNOWING you will be fine. Its cheaper to put 4…but I don’t want to pay for that compromise. There is a lot of snobbery in the AR world so be ready for that…most people just cant understand why you would ever NOT buy a Colt, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense etc… If I was only ever going to go to the range and never put my life on the line I would be fine with a stag, rra, windham, etc… As I use my rifle for home defense…I went with the best because my family’s life is worth it. TLDR: Bla bla bla congrats on your purchase, enjoy your rifle and shoot the hell out of it. -J Um, with all due respect, that's incorrect. While there may be a couple minor things some AR "purists" might desire to have changed, like commercial receiver extension, A2 FSB, and 1-9 twist barrel (a twist a customer may actually want) the key staking is not an issue on the Windham rifles. |
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Great the know it all Windham bashers have arrived. Those who don't own one or have never seen one. FAC had nothing but good words about Windham... I don’t have a “problem” with windham as long as people understand what they are buying. You are not buying a “just as good as colt but cheaper” you are buying a lower grade AR. The price is lower because various materials, testing and manufacturing processes were omitted. Example, the gas keys. Bushmaster / Windham does not aggressively (ie read properly) stake the gas key. Its like putting 4 lug nuts on your rim because it will “probably be fine” vs just putting all 8 and KNOWING you will be fine. Its cheaper to put 4…but I don’t want to pay for that compromise. There is a lot of snobbery in the AR world so be ready for that…most people just cant understand why you would ever NOT buy a Colt, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense etc… If I was only ever going to go to the range and never put my life on the line I would be fine with a stag, rra, windham, etc… As I use my rifle for home defense…I went with the best because my family’s life is worth it. TLDR: Bla bla bla congrats on your purchase, enjoy your rifle and shoot the hell out of it. -J Um, with all due respect, that's incorrect. While there may be a couple minor things some AR "purists" might desire, like commercial receiver extension, A2 FSB, and 1-9 twist barrel (a twist a customer may actually want) the key staking is not an issue on the Windham rifles. Just because a windham gas key has “some” staking and hasn’t come loose doesn’t mean it was done properly. My first AR was a Stag arms with very poor staking (almost non existent) and it never came loose…but that doesn’t change the fact it wasn’t done properly. You need to have enough material pushed into the path of the hardware so they cant back out under use. The same goes for the castle nut, this needs to be staked as well. The windham rifles I have seen have had neither properly staked. Either stake the damn thing so it does its job or don’t. I had this “visual” staking that serves no real mechanical purpose other than to fool people into thinking it was done correctly. -J |
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I have heard nothing but good things so far. My LGS has a nice looking 18" rifle variant that I seriously considered buying. Decided to go with a more likely resale value play, and got a Colt 6920 instead... but I paid $100 more for that. :\ $100 more for a Colt 6920 is a wise investment. My favorite rifle to date is my LE6920MPGG-B...gotta love green. 
-J |
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Great the know it all Windham bashers have arrived. Those who don't own one or have never seen one. FAC had nothing but good words about Windham... I don’t have a “problem” with windham as long as people understand what they are buying. You are not buying a “just as good as colt but cheaper” you are buying a lower grade AR. The price is lower because various materials, testing and manufacturing processes were omitted. Example, the gas keys. Bushmaster / Windham does not aggressively (ie read properly) stake the gas key. Its like putting 4 lug nuts on your rim because it will “probably be fine” vs just putting all 8 and KNOWING you will be fine. Its cheaper to put 4…but I don’t want to pay for that compromise. There is a lot of snobbery in the AR world so be ready for that…most people just cant understand why you would ever NOT buy a Colt, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense etc… If I was only ever going to go to the range and never put my life on the line I would be fine with a stag, rra, windham, etc… As I use my rifle for home defense…I went with the best because my family’s life is worth it. TLDR: Bla bla bla congrats on your purchase, enjoy your rifle and shoot the hell out of it. -J Um, with all due respect, that's incorrect. While there may be a couple minor things some AR "purists" might desire, like commercial receiver extension, A2 FSB, and 1-9 twist barrel (a twist a customer may actually want) the key staking is not an issue on the Windham rifles. Just because a windham gas key has “some” staking and hasn’t come loose doesn’t mean it was done properly. My first AR was a Stag arms with very poor staking (almost non existent) and it never came loose…but that doesn’t change the fact it wasn’t done properly. You need to have enough material pushed into the path of the hardware so they cant back out under use. The same goes for the castle nut, this needs to be staked as well. The windham rifles I have seen have had neither properly staked. Either stake the damn thing so it does its job or don’t. I had this “visual” staking that serves no real mechanical purpose other than to fool people into thinking it was done correctly. -J All of the ones that I have seen have had properly staked gas keys. Windham does not stake the castle nut. I agree with PredatorWhacker...you can gripe about the things he listed if you choose, but gas key staking is not an issue with these rifles. |
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Great the know it all Windham bashers have arrived. Those who don't own one or have never seen one. FAC had nothing but good words about Windham... I don’t have a “problem” with windham as long as people understand what they are buying. You are not buying a “just as good as colt but cheaper” you are buying a lower grade AR. The price is lower because various materials, testing and manufacturing processes were omitted. Example, the gas keys. Bushmaster / Windham does not aggressively (ie read properly) stake the gas key. Its like putting 4 lug nuts on your rim because it will “probably be fine” vs just putting all 8 and KNOWING you will be fine. Its cheaper to put 4…but I don’t want to pay for that compromise. There is a lot of snobbery in the AR world so be ready for that…most people just cant understand why you would ever NOT buy a Colt, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense etc… If I was only ever going to go to the range and never put my life on the line I would be fine with a stag, rra, windham, etc… As I use my rifle for home defense…I went with the best because my family’s life is worth it. TLDR: Bla bla bla congrats on your purchase, enjoy your rifle and shoot the hell out of it. -J Um, with all due respect, that's incorrect. While there may be a couple minor things some AR "purists" might desire, like commercial receiver extension, A2 FSB, and 1-9 twist barrel (a twist a customer may actually want) the key staking is not an issue on the Windham rifles. Just because a windham gas key has “some” staking and hasn’t come loose doesn’t mean it was done properly. My first AR was a Stag arms with very poor staking (almost non existent) and it never came loose…but that doesn’t change the fact it wasn’t done properly. You need to have enough material pushed into the path of the hardware so they cant back out under use. The same goes for the castle nut, this needs to be staked as well. The windham rifles I have seen have had neither properly staked. Either stake the damn thing so it does its job or don’t. I had this “visual” staking that serves no real mechanical purpose other than to fool people into thinking it was done correctly. -J One is a colt, the other is a Windham bolt carrier. Which one is which? 
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Great the know it all Windham bashers have arrived. Those who don't own one or have never seen one. FAC had nothing but good words about Windham... I don’t have a “problem” with windham as long as people understand what they are buying. You are not buying a “just as good as colt but cheaper” you are buying a lower grade AR. The price is lower because various materials, testing and manufacturing processes were omitted. Example, the gas keys. Bushmaster / Windham does not aggressively (ie read properly) stake the gas key. Its like putting 4 lug nuts on your rim because it will “probably be fine” vs just putting all 8 and KNOWING you will be fine. Its cheaper to put 4…but I don’t want to pay for that compromise. There is a lot of snobbery in the AR world so be ready for that…most people just cant understand why you would ever NOT buy a Colt, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense etc… If I was only ever going to go to the range and never put my life on the line I would be fine with a stag, rra, windham, etc… As I use my rifle for home defense…I went with the best because my family’s life is worth it. TLDR: Bla bla bla congrats on your purchase, enjoy your rifle and shoot the hell out of it. -J Um, with all due respect, that's incorrect. While there may be a couple minor things some AR "purists" might desire, like commercial receiver extension, A2 FSB, and 1-9 twist barrel (a twist a customer may actually want) the key staking is not an issue on the Windham rifles. Just because a windham gas key has “some” staking and hasn’t come loose doesn’t mean it was done properly. My first AR was a Stag arms with very poor staking (almost non existent) and it never came loose…but that doesn’t change the fact it wasn’t done properly. You need to have enough material pushed into the path of the hardware so they cant back out under use. The same goes for the castle nut, this needs to be staked as well. The windham rifles I have seen have had neither properly staked. Either stake the damn thing so it does its job or don’t. I had this “visual” staking that serves no real mechanical purpose other than to fool people into thinking it was done correctly. -J Well I not going to say you didn't observe one example of light staking. But to my knowledge that is not the norm. I think most brands out there have had an example or two of a less than perfect stake. Staking isn't rocket science. If you make ARs in quantity it's likely you have a tool to do the job. I know old BM had questionable staking for a time a long time ago but that was resolved. All the BCGs I got from them years ago were properly staked. I'm pretty sure the guys at Windham know how to do it these days. As I said though, if you are a purist maybe there is a reason or two to select something else but key staking isn't one of them. By your reasoning it would be like saying because Colt sent out unstaked keys you should stay away from Colt. I think you would agree that a light stake probably is better than none. I think making a blanket judgement on Colt for that would be an equally poor decision. Actual Windham owners are more than happy with their rifles and are fully aware of the specs when they get them. According to Windham they may have plans to change the couple minor areas of concern on their rifles. Already they now HPT/MP test each bolt which they did not do back when they were BM. So they are making efforts at bring specs up to a point that makes even the more selective AR customer happy. Just like other emerging AR manufacturers. For that I tip my hat. |
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Great the know it all Windham bashers have arrived. Those who don't own one or have never seen one. FAC had nothing but good words about Windham... I don’t have a “problem” with windham as long as people understand what they are buying. You are not buying a “just as good as colt but cheaper” you are buying a lower grade AR. The price is lower because various materials, testing and manufacturing processes were omitted. Example, the gas keys. Bushmaster / Windham does not aggressively (ie read properly) stake the gas key. Its like putting 4 lug nuts on your rim because it will “probably be fine” vs just putting all 8 and KNOWING you will be fine. Its cheaper to put 4…but I don’t want to pay for that compromise. There is a lot of snobbery in the AR world so be ready for that…most people just cant understand why you would ever NOT buy a Colt, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense etc… If I was only ever going to go to the range and never put my life on the line I would be fine with a stag, rra, windham, etc… As I use my rifle for home defense…I went with the best because my family’s life is worth it. TLDR: Bla bla bla congrats on your purchase, enjoy your rifle and shoot the hell out of it. -J Um, with all due respect, that's incorrect. While there may be a couple minor things some AR "purists" might desire, like commercial receiver extension, A2 FSB, and 1-9 twist barrel (a twist a customer may actually want) the key staking is not an issue on the Windham rifles. Just because a windham gas key has “some” staking and hasn’t come loose doesn’t mean it was done properly. My first AR was a Stag arms with very poor staking (almost non existent) and it never came loose…but that doesn’t change the fact it wasn’t done properly. You need to have enough material pushed into the path of the hardware so they cant back out under use. The same goes for the castle nut, this needs to be staked as well. The windham rifles I have seen have had neither properly staked. Either stake the damn thing so it does its job or don’t. I had this “visual” staking that serves no real mechanical purpose other than to fool people into thinking it was done correctly. -J One is a colt, the other is a Windham bolt carrier. Which one is which? http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/xwarp/stake.jpg Ohh…ill play this game! Colt is the top one. Again, if this has become the norm then kudos to windham. The model I pulled a BCG from did not have proper staking. This seemed to be the norm per conversation with a few other people I have spoken too. If proper staking is the norm, then awesome! I actually support Windham, it’s a local business and gives mainers jobs. They have really stepped up since being restarted from the bushmaster sale. I hope they continue to shed the silly BM gremlins from the past. |
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I have one of the early Bushmasters HBAR's that with my hand loads, Leupold scope, and RR 2-stage varmint trigger shoots consistant 1/2" to 9/16" groups from the bench. Not sure who made the barrels for them, but this one is very accurate. I did have a gunsmith "restake " the gas key as it was needed and simple to do. Enjoy yours!!
Jim |
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What makes you think the top one is the colt? What details are you using to decide that? That wasnt part of the game. 
Confirm im right, or prove me wrong. Then ill tell you how I came to my conclusion (it was not a guess if that what you are worried about). -J |
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What makes you think the top one is the colt? What details are you using to decide that? That wasnt part of the game.
Confirm im right, or prove me wrong. Then ill tell you how I came to my conclusion (it was not a guess if that what you are worried about). -J LOL not doing either. You made the guess, you share the reasons behind your guess. |
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Do they have chrome lined barrels? With their prices, I'm thinking not. sheese...... 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_489/213648_WINDHAM_WEAPONRY_SPEC_DATA_FOR_ALL_CURRENT_MODELS_AND_UPPER_RECEIVERS.html |
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Great the know it all Windham bashers have arrived. Those who don't own one or have never seen one. FAC had nothing but good words about Windham... I don’t have a “problem” with windham as long as people understand what they are buying. You are not buying a “just as good as colt but cheaper” you are buying a lower grade AR. The price is lower because various materials, testing and manufacturing processes were omitted. Example, the gas keys. Bushmaster / Windham does not aggressively (ie read properly) stake the gas key. Its like putting 4 lug nuts on your rim because it will “probably be fine” vs just putting all 8 and KNOWING you will be fine. Its cheaper to put 4…but I don’t want to pay for that compromise. There is a lot of snobbery in the AR world so be ready for that…most people just cant understand why you would ever NOT buy a Colt, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense etc… If I was only ever going to go to the range and never put my life on the line I would be fine with a stag, rra, windham, etc… As I use my rifle for home defense…I went with the best because my family’s life is worth it. TLDR: Bla bla bla congrats on your purchase, enjoy your rifle and shoot the hell out of it. -J Um, with all due respect, that's incorrect. While there may be a couple minor things some AR "purists" might desire, like commercial receiver extension, A2 FSB, and 1-9 twist barrel (a twist a customer may actually want) the key staking is not an issue on the Windham rifles. Just because a windham gas key has “some” staking and hasn’t come loose doesn’t mean it was done properly. My first AR was a Stag arms with very poor staking (almost non existent) and it never came loose…but that doesn’t change the fact it wasn’t done properly. You need to have enough material pushed into the path of the hardware so they cant back out under use. The same goes for the castle nut, this needs to be staked as well. The windham rifles I have seen have had neither properly staked. Either stake the damn thing so it does its job or don’t. I had this “visual” staking that serves no real mechanical purpose other than to fool people into thinking it was done correctly. -J One is a colt, the other is a Windham bolt carrier. Which one is which? http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/xwarp/stake.jpg I am going to say its the bottom one |
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What makes you think the top one is the colt? What details are you using to decide that? That wasnt part of the game.
Confirm im right, or prove me wrong. Then ill tell you how I came to my conclusion (it was not a guess if that what you are worried about). -J LOL not doing either. You made the guess, you share the reasons behind your guess. The gas key markings. They indicate different methods of production, colt keys have marks running perpindicular to the bore axis. |
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Do they have chrome lined barrels? With their prices, I'm thinking not. sheese...... http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m559/ewinter223/spec%20sheets/SRC.png http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_489/213648_WINDHAM_WEAPONRY_SPEC_DATA_FOR_ALL_CURRENT_MODELS_AND_UPPER_RECEIVERS.html Windham should have figured out by now that there is no such thing as 4150 CMV 11595E steel. Its either 11595E 4150 or 11595E CMV. They should be forthright in disclosing type of barrel steel, not posting BS on their site. |
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Anyone yanked the FSB and measured the gas port? ~Augee I have read it's bored to .063" for their 16" barrels... I've read the same from the manufacturer: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_489/214491_Gas_port_sizes_broke_down_by_barrel_length.html However, I was asking if anyone had actually verified the gas port dimension on their Windham, not quoting the manufacturer. Not implying or insinuating anything, so no need for anyone to get defenisve - I would just be curious to see a real independent measurement. ~Augee |
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Wow...I thought this thread was about Windham rifles, not proper gas key staking. Colts - love-em. Wallet - doesn't support them at this time. Had an Colt Hbar years back when I was shooting USPSA competitions. Very nice rifle, unfortunately sold it. Just ordered a Windham HPC to get an AR back in the safe. Saw my first Windham, a SRC, at a local shop this week. Was duly impressed with quality compared to Stag, RRA, etc. Should pick it up within a week or so.
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[/quote] One is a colt, the other is a Windham bolt carrier. Which one is which? http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/xwarp/stake.jpg [/quote] Not fair, you are using real evidence. There is only supposed to be opinions on this board and those opinions have to say Colt is superior |
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