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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:14:27 AM EDT
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I in in negations of a trade for one of these and to pick it up this week. I am trading a Glock 23/.40 and KKM 9mm barrel for a Recon. The GLock was bought in Feb 2012 & barrel last month. The Recon was purchased in March 2011 and the person says only 300 rounds through it.
This will be my first AR and want to know if this is a good quality rifle (I feel it is a good trade). I will use it for two gun shoots, plinking and some very small animals-maybe. Anything I should look for upon inspection? Thanks, Jim |
| AAC is about as good a fh as you're going to find. Some (including myself) will say to switch out the bcg and maybe trigger group/lpk. I'm not too thrilled with 416 SS barrels but it should be fine and you can switch that in the future without too much trouble. I clicked on this expecting to write DPMS sucks (thinking Oracle/Sportical types), but that one looks pretty good for a $600 trade value. It should fit your purposes fine and a friend's SS DPMS was pretty accurate so I'd say that has potential. |
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Thank you.
He said he has 300 rounds through it. Is there a break-in for these rifles? What is a BCG? I have also heard about trigger work needing to be done on these. Is there a big/problem w/the SS barrel I should be concerned about, like if I get it to hot or ?? Sorry for all the questions, never owed a AR but shot one plenty of times. Thanks, Jim |
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Now this might be garbage as you read the post further down.
Maybe some of the guys who know more than the info below and myself can contribute. For me, I am still going through w/the trade of my Glock 23 for this DPMS Recon. P.S. I asked the owner and he said he has had no problems w/he Recon. I just curious about the barrel comment above for my future info. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=235757 Common problems with DPMS....
-Gas ports not properly drilled/sized -Gas/sight blocks not perpendicular -Barrel threading off square -They do not consistently use true 5.56 chambers but actually .223 which can cause extraction issues. -They do not always use chrome lined chambers and bores which leads to extraction issues and easier accumulation of fouling. Sometimes pitched as making the gun more "accurate" but not at this level of gun is that really true (IME). -They do not consistently use the correct steel for bolts and BCGs. -They do not consistently chrome line the bolt interface of the BCG. -They do not consistently HP and MPI test bolts, BCGs, or Barrels. -They do not consistently stake the castle nut, or bolts on the BCG. |
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This is a Bolt Carrier Group (BCG):
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/Kyle_Katarn94/lmtbcg.jpg Good Luck on the deal. |
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Ok here we go again... We will try and answer these questions to clear up some incorrect information.
-Gas ports not properly drilled/sized If modifying rifle then yes it would not be correct in some cases but the sizing is correct when they leave the factory. -Gas/sight blocks not perpendicular What? -Barrel threading off square No reported cases that we are aware of -They do not consistently use true 5.56 chambers but actually .223 which can cause extraction issues. We chamber both and both are labeled on the barrel as such. If it says 5.56 then that is what the chamber is. -They do not always use chrome lined chambers and bores which leads to extraction issues and easier accumulation of fouling. Sometimes pitched as making the gun more "accurate" but not at this level of gun is that really true (IME). We offer chrome-lined as a option on some barrels and all pistol/sbr barrels are 4150 chrome-lined. -They do not consistently use the correct steel for bolts and BCGs. Yes we do always use Carpenter 158 on bolts and 8620 on carriers no exceptions. -They do not consistently chrome line the bolt interface of the BCG. Never heard of that. -They do not consistently HP and MPI test bolts, BCGs, or Barrels. We batch test every run. -They do not consistently stake the castle nut, or bolts on the BCG. We do not stake the castle nut, we use loc-tite on castle nuts. How do you stake a bolt? All gas keys are correctly staked in a fixture with a arbor press. Please visit our industry section on "How we stake the gas key" as to the procedures we do. Hope that helps 
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Quoted:
Now this might be garbage as you read the post further down. Maybe some of the guys who know more than the info below and myself can contribute. For me, I am still going through w/the trade of my Glock 23 for this DPMS Recon. P.S. I asked the owner and he said he has had no problems w/he Recon. I just curious about the barrel comment above for my future info. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=235757 Common problems with DPMS....
-Gas ports not properly drilled/sized -Gas/sight blocks not perpendicular -Barrel threading off square -They do not consistently use true 5.56 chambers but actually .223 which can cause extraction issues. -They do not always use chrome lined chambers and bores which leads to extraction issues and easier accumulation of fouling. Sometimes pitched as making the gun more "accurate" but not at this level of gun is that really true (IME). -They do not consistently use the correct steel for bolts and BCGs. -They do not consistently chrome line the bolt interface of the BCG. -They do not consistently HP and MPI test bolts, BCGs, or Barrels. -They do not consistently stake the castle nut, or bolts on the BCG. Talk to most people "in the know", like well known instructors that see hundreds of rifles and put 500K+ rounds combined downrange a year in their classes, and they'll tell you DPMS is pretty much at the bottom quality-wise among AR brands. Pat Rogers is particularly vocal about this, his phrase is "hobby guns". With that said for 600 bucks equivalent for a first AR I'd say go get it. It'll probably do fine for plinking at the range, just don't expect it to hold up to a serious course of fire. My honest recommendation is buy it and put the money you saved towards a good carbine course. Hell, to really round things out, buy an eoturd and go to an EAG tactical class. That way when it shits the bed you can run one of Pat's guns and see what a real fighting AR is supposed to be. My first AR was a DPMS with an eoturd, I learned. Maybe you will too. Sometimes the best learning is when you learn on your own. |
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Quoted:
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Now this might be garbage as you read the post further down. Maybe some of the guys who know more than the info below and myself can contribute. For me, I am still going through w/the trade of my Glock 23 for this DPMS Recon. P.S. I asked the owner and he said he has had no problems w/he Recon. I just curious about the barrel comment above for my future info. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=235757 Common problems with DPMS....
-Gas ports not properly drilled/sized -Gas/sight blocks not perpendicular -Barrel threading off square -They do not consistently use true 5.56 chambers but actually .223 which can cause extraction issues. -They do not always use chrome lined chambers and bores which leads to extraction issues and easier accumulation of fouling. Sometimes pitched as making the gun more "accurate" but not at this level of gun is that really true (IME). -They do not consistently use the correct steel for bolts and BCGs. -They do not consistently chrome line the bolt interface of the BCG. -They do not consistently HP and MPI test bolts, BCGs, or Barrels. -They do not consistently stake the castle nut, or bolts on the BCG. Talk to most people "in the know", like well known instructors that see hundreds of rifles and put 500K+ rounds combined downrange a year in their classes, and they'll tell you DPMS is pretty much at the bottom quality-wise among AR brands. Pat Rogers is particularly vocal about this, his phrase is "hobby guns". With that said for 600 bucks equivalent for a first AR I'd say go get it. It'll probably do fine for plinking at the range, just don't expect it to hold up to a serious course of fire. My honest recommendation is buy it and put the money you saved towards a good carbine course. Hell, to really round things out, buy an eoturd and go to an EAG tactical class. That way when it shits the bed you can run one of Pat's guns and see what a real fighting AR is supposed to be. My first AR was a DPMS with an eoturd, I learned. Maybe you will too. Sometimes the best learning is when you learn on your own. hmmm bottom quality hesse/blackthorn ring a bell? olympic, bushmaster, DPMS are owned by the same company now and they are still the top selling brands i think there doing alright not to the ARFCOM mil spec demand but good for 80% of the members here and pretty much most shooters. yes there are better rifles out there but this is a trade its a good deal OP SS is usually more accurate and retains heat better also don't get overwelmed with the mil spec crazy most people want top of the line that they know won't fail like some of DPMS and other lowers brand. While that is great and all most of us know its not gonna be your last AR  . because 90% of the members here shoot m193 ammo which is no problem out of a 1x9 twist BBL. you will be fine great deal.
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Now this might be garbage as you read the post further down. Maybe some of the guys who know more than the info below and myself can contribute. For me, I am still going through w/the trade of my Glock 23 for this DPMS Recon. P.S. I asked the owner and he said he has had no problems w/he Recon. I just curious about the barrel comment above for my future info. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=235757 Common problems with DPMS....
-Gas ports not properly drilled/sized -Gas/sight blocks not perpendicular -Barrel threading off square -They do not consistently use true 5.56 chambers but actually .223 which can cause extraction issues. -They do not always use chrome lined chambers and bores which leads to extraction issues and easier accumulation of fouling. Sometimes pitched as making the gun more "accurate" but not at this level of gun is that really true (IME). -They do not consistently use the correct steel for bolts and BCGs. -They do not consistently chrome line the bolt interface of the BCG. -They do not consistently HP and MPI test bolts, BCGs, or Barrels. -They do not consistently stake the castle nut, or bolts on the BCG. Talk to most people "in the know", like well known instructors that see hundreds of rifles and put 500K+ rounds combined downrange a year in their classes, and they'll tell you DPMS is pretty much at the bottom quality-wise among AR brands. Pat Rogers is particularly vocal about this, his phrase is "hobby guns". With that said for 600 bucks equivalent for a first AR I'd say go get it. It'll probably do fine for plinking at the range, just don't expect it to hold up to a serious course of fire. My honest recommendation is buy it and put the money you saved towards a good carbine course. Hell, to really round things out, buy an eoturd and go to an EAG tactical class. That way when it shits the bed you can run one of Pat's guns and see what a real fighting AR is supposed to be. My first AR was a DPMS with an eoturd, I learned. Maybe you will too. Sometimes the best learning is when you learn on your own. hmmm bottom quality hesse/blackthorn ring a bell? olympic, bushmaster, DPMS are owned by the same company now and they are still the top selling brands i think there doing alright not to the ARFCOM mil spec demand but good for 80% of the members here and pretty much most shooters. yes there are better rifles out there but this is a trade its a good deal OP SS is usually more accurate and retains heat better also don't get overwelmed with the mil spec crazy most people want top of the line that they know won't fail like some of DPMS and other lowers brand. While that is great and all most of us know its not gonna be your last AR . because 90% of the members here shoot m193 ammo which is no problem out of a 1x9 twist BBL. you will be fine great deal.FYI, Olympic is not owned by the same company as DPMS Also, here is a good read to all on "Mil-Spec" http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2259&cid=4
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Also, here is a good read to all on "Mil-Spec" http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2259&cid=4
"It may be true that there’s no such thing as a MilSpec AR or even MilSpec components, but there are indeed ARs made of components that meet the same MilStd or MilSpec criteria as a genuine U.S. military rifle, excluding of course machinge gun parts, illegally short barrels and no government inspection." This is what people really mean by "mil-spec" in regards to AR's, most of that article was arguing semantics "After you delve into the minutia of bolt carrier groups, magnetic particle inspections, H-buffers, staked gas keys and all the other indicators of a quality-made AR that, theoretically, meets most of the MilSpec criteria, your brain is going to explode. It’s just too much information." It's really not that complicated at all. |
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Also, here is a good read to all on "Mil-Spec" http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2259&cid=4
LOL, From the above link: The best sources of such technical information on the AR are the forums over at M4carbine.net. Rob Sloyer, a member of the site, has put together an extremely useful chart that details each and every part in an AR and shows which manufacturers are complying and which are not. I think he's talking about "the chart". that seems to get everyone in a tizzy, haha. OP, seriously, If the rifle is in decent shape I would grab it for the equivalent of 600 bucks like it sounds you will. Maybe you'll shoot 100 rounds through it and it'll gather dust in the closet from then on, in which case you won't be out a lot of money. Maybe you'll get bitten by the bug and start collecting, in which case it'll still be a good beater. My first AR was a DPMS, I've since moved on to BCM and LMT. It's a decent beater gun, but it obviously doesn't have the same QC as the others. I have no problem throwing it in truck to ride around the ranch, but if I'm spending hard earned money to fly across country and attend a class, it sits in the safe. |
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Ok here we go again... We will try and answer these questions to clear up some incorrect information. -Gas ports not properly drilled/sized If modifying rifle then yes it would not be correct in some cases but the sizing is correct when they leave the factory. -Gas/sight blocks not perpendicular What? -Barrel threading off square No reported cases that we are aware of -They do not consistently use true 5.56 chambers but actually .223 which can cause extraction issues. We chamber both and both are labeled on the barrel as such. If it says 5.56 then that is what the chamber is. -They do not always use chrome lined chambers and bores which leads to extraction issues and easier accumulation of fouling. Sometimes pitched as making the gun more "accurate" but not at this level of gun is that really true (IME). We offer chrome-lined as a option on some barrels and all pistol/sbr barrels are 4150 chrome-lined. -They do not consistently use the correct steel for bolts and BCGs. Yes we do always use Carpenter 158 on bolts and 8620 on carriers no exceptions. -They do not consistently chrome line the bolt interface of the BCG. Never heard of that. -They do not consistently HP and MPI test bolts, BCGs, or Barrels. We batch test every run. -They do not consistently stake the castle nut, or bolts on the BCG. We do not stake the castle nut, we use loc-tite on castle nuts. How do you stake a bolt? All gas keys are correctly staked in a fixture with a arbor press. Please visit our industry section on "How we stake the gas key" as to the procedures we do. Hope that helps Bullshit you dont stake the castle nut, I have broke 2 wrenches trying to get that sucker off |
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I in in negations of a trade for one of these and to pick it up this week. I am trading a Glock 23/.40 and KKM 9mm barrel for a Recon. The GLock was bought in Feb 2012 & barrel last month. The Recon was purchased in March 2011 and the person says only 300 rounds through it. This will be my first AR and want to know if this is a good quality rifle (I feel it is a good trade). I will use it for two gun shoots, plinking and some very small animals-maybe. Anything I should look for upon inspection? Thanks, Jim You're getting a great deal on that trade. I have owned a couple of DPMS ARs. One in particular, a lower model, I have abused beyond belief and it functions fine. I have put over 5500 rounds through it so far without ever cleaning it. I only squirt a couple of drops of Hoppes Elite oil into the ejection port once in a while to lube it. I have tried to push it past the breaking point, but it just won't give in. I bumpfire it, shoot it in the rain as well as in dusty conditions. It doesn't rust and it's accurate...despite all the grime that is now caked in it from neglect...I admit that I don't treat my other ARs like this because they cost quite a bit in parts to build, but I am starting to develope some love and respect for that DPMS.....I might even break down and clean it for the first time this weekend. |
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You're getting a great deal on that trade. I have owned a couple of DPMS ARs. One in particular, a lower model, I have abused beyond belief and it functions fine. I have put over 5500 rounds through it so far without ever cleaning it. I only squirt a couple of drops of Hoppes Elite oil into the ejection port once in a while to lube it. I have tried to push it past the breaking point, but it just won't give in. I bumpfire it, shoot it in the rain as well as in dusty conditions. It doesn't rust and it's accurate...despite all the grime that is now caked in it from neglect...I admit that I don't treat my other ARs like this because they cost quite a bit in parts to build, but I am starting to develope some love and respect for that DPMS.....I might even break down and clean it for the first time this weekend. If you clean it it might never work right again!!! 
I pulled the trigger on my DPMS, sending the check out today. |
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You're getting a great deal on that trade. I have owned a couple of DPMS ARs. One in particular, a lower model, I have abused beyond belief and it functions fine. I have put over 5500 rounds through it so far without ever cleaning it. I only squirt a couple of drops of Hoppes Elite oil into the ejection port once in a while to lube it. I have tried to push it past the breaking point, but it just won't give in. I bumpfire it, shoot it in the rain as well as in dusty conditions. It doesn't rust and it's accurate...despite all the grime that is now caked in it from neglect...I admit that I don't treat my other ARs like this because they cost quite a bit in parts to build, but I am starting to develope some love and respect for that DPMS.....I might even break down and clean it for the first time this weekend. If you clean it it might never work right again!!!
I pulled the trigger on my DPMS, sending the check out today. HAHA....yeah, maybe I shouldn't clean it......the grime might be the only thing holding it together.. |
I can tell you this, my DPMS A2 HBAR is ten times the rifle compared to the first Colt M16 they handed us in the service. If you looked wrong at these Colts they jambed and the guys in country wanted their M14 back.........................and these Colts were mil-spec. 
I'm 62 and swore I would never own an AR but my sons wanted to shoot one so I traded three British Enfield rifles and paid out $10.58 for my DPMS and it doesn't jamb, and doesn't have a chrome bore or chamber. (just like my M1) 
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FYI, Olympic is not owned by the same company as DPMS Also, here is a good read to all on "Mil-Spec" http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2259&cid=4
First off you quote an article that can't even name the origonal designer of the AR-15 right. And post it on ar-15. You guys got balls. I say this because that article points people to "the chart." I dunno if you looked at it but that chart puts y'all dead last in terms of quality in parts/features. I mean really your almost helping us bash your brand. Kudos. I can't find the face palm pic I like posting, just imagine it me. |
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Well, seems the buyer feel off the face of the earth and I must move on. I am now looking at a SIG AR 556 (I think) OR a SIG AK 556R. Any thoughts on the two. Thanks, Jim OK I talked to a buddy of mine that owns a gun shop and he said the wait for a SIG AK is 8-18months right now-gust-a-ment. Not sure yet on the SIG 516 AR. I would like either, and IF the SIG is not readily available, then I will get a different AR. ANY suggestions on another AR (I have $800.00-$1100.00 to spend) MFG? Thanks, Jim |
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I'm happy with my DPMS AP4 carbine. It shoots steel case russian, brass reloads and high end ammo just the same. My castle nut isnt staked but that is becoming the industry norm becuase so many want to change out sling plates. The BCG bolts are staked though.
This thing shoots just as good as my Gvt issue M4. There are a lot of variances with weapon functionality but accessories and maintenance play a big part. Quailty mags, ammo and a clean weapon with good lubrication will go a long way. |
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