AR Sponsor
Posted: 7/7/2012 10:31:40 PM EDT
|
At this time I will only reveal listed information but will later edit and add brand and results with the company.
During a training class I had a major malfunction and once the rifle was opened this is what was found. Rifle has approximately 5k rounds.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us" />
 Uploaded with ImageShack.us" />
 Uploaded with ImageShack.us" />
 Uploaded with ImageShack.us" />
|
| This happened on the fourth day of class. The first 8 rounds fired with no problem then at the next round it fired but no ejection. I did a tap rack and fired another round and same thing no ejection that is when I opened gun and found the problem. The screws broke in the middle its hard to see in the pics but the gas key still has the staked screws and the carrier has the other half. There was a lot of carbon build up and I did not see any shinny areas where the screws snapped. |
|
Quoted:
This happened on the fourth day of class. The first 8 rounds fired with no problem then at the next round it fired but no ejection. I did a tap rack and fired another round and same thing no ejection that is when I opened gun and found the problem. im suprised it still fired but didnt eject, you had to have some cases lodged together. if you would of fired one or two more shots there would of been big trouble. |
| There were no cases lodged together. The instructor observed the carrier never cycled when the weapon was fired. When I charged the weapon it ejected the empty and fed the next round into the chamber. When I fired the round it did not unlock, extract and eject due to the major gas leak but i only fired it this way twice and then stopped. |
| I think it most likely that one screw had failed already, and the other was still secure enough to keep the key sealed until it finally gave way. From the pictures (the ImageShack links don't work, so I can only zoom in on the smaller sized pics that were posted), it looks like there wasn't much gas leakage between the key and the carrier, maybe two or three rounds worth. Time for a new key and screws, and thanks for the reminder that I really need a backup carrier in my kit. |
|
Quoted:
Not sure why anyone would contact the manufacturer about a broke carrier key screw in a used rifle with 5000 plus rounds. It's an item that needs to be maintained and the repair is covered in the TM. Is the rifle under warranty or something? This. We all know carrier keys can come loose or break, and it's not a major event (unless, of course, you're in Fallujah and the Al Qaeda hordes are descending on you. Either repair it or replace it and move on. . . |
|
Quoted:
im suprised it still fired but didnt eject, you had to have some cases lodged together. if you would of fired one or two more shots there would of been big trouble. What would have happened if the OP had just kept firing his straight pull rifle w/ an independent gas key? Eventually the bolt would get stuck on extraction or loading; the worst I can imagine is gas coming straight back down the charging handle channel w/ nothing to obstruct it other than the CH. Gig 'em, backbencher |
|
Quoted:
I think it most likely that one screw had failed already, and the other was still secure enough to keep the key sealed until it finally gave way. From the pictures (the ImageShack links don't work, so I can only zoom in on the smaller sized pics that were posted), it looks like there wasn't much gas leakage between the key and the carrier, maybe two or three rounds worth. Time for a new key and screws, and thanks for the reminder that I really need a backup carrier in my kit. Why so secretive about the manufacture? Maybe the staking did indeed weaken the bolt as suggested by a company that does not stake. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it most likely that one screw had failed already, and the other was still secure enough to keep the key sealed until it finally gave way. From the pictures (the ImageShack links don't work, so I can only zoom in on the smaller sized pics that were posted), it looks like there wasn't much gas leakage between the key and the carrier, maybe two or three rounds worth. Time for a new key and screws, and thanks for the reminder that I really need a backup carrier in my kit. Why so secretive about the manufacture? Maybe the staking did indeed weaken the bolt as suggested by a company that does not stake. Don't know why you quoted my post for this, but I'll answer your last bit. Staking displaces metal into the screw heads. The key in the pictures had equal metal displaced on both sides, and appears to have been machine staked - almost certainly both sides at the same time. There is no way this could stress the screw shafts. Even if it was done one side at a time, with the screws properly torqued, ALL of the energy from the staking would be AT THE TOP of the screw and into the head, not the shaft. Whoever it is (you didn't say) that says they don't stake because they say it weakens the screws is either using cheap screws or wants to make their "one step less to manufacture" carrier sound better. |
|
Quoted:
Not sure why anyone would contact the manufacturer about a broke carrier key screw in a used rifle with 5000 plus rounds. It's an item that needs to be maintained and the repair is covered in the TM. Is the rifle under warranty or something? 5K rounds is not very many and yes I was just going to replace the gas key but instead contacted the manufacture Colt. I was asked for the serial number of my rifle and my mailing address. I will be receiving a new complete carrier group with a paid postage to send them back mine to their QC people. I will also be purchasing a new Colt carrier group as a back up. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not sure why anyone would contact the manufacturer about a broke carrier key screw in a used rifle with 5000 plus rounds. It's an item that needs to be maintained and the repair is covered in the TM. Is the rifle under warranty or something? 5K rounds is not very many and yes I was just going to replace the gas key but instead contacted the manufacture. I was asked for the serial number of my rifle and my mailing address. I will be receiving a new complete carrier group with a paid postage to send them back mine to their QC people. I will also be purchasing a new Colt carrier group as a back up. And....who was it? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not sure why anyone would contact the manufacturer about a broke carrier key screw in a used rifle with 5000 plus rounds. It's an item that needs to be maintained and the repair is covered in the TM. Is the rifle under warranty or something? 5K rounds is not very many and yes I was just going to replace the gas key but instead contacted the manufacture Colt. I was asked for the serial number of my rifle and my mailing address. I will be receiving a new complete carrier group with a paid postage to send them back mine to their QC people. I will also be purchasing a new Colt carrier group as a back up. And....who was it? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not sure why anyone would contact the manufacturer about a broke carrier key screw in a used rifle with 5000 plus rounds. It's an item that needs to be maintained and the repair is covered in the TM. Is the rifle under warranty or something? 5K rounds is not very many and yes I was just going to replace the gas key but instead contacted the manufacture. I was asked for the serial number of my rifle and my mailing address. I will be receiving a new complete carrier group with a paid postage to send them back mine to their QC people. I will also be purchasing a new Colt carrier group as a back up. And....who was it? 
Is this an attempt at sarcasm? OP, I'm glad to see Colt is taking care of the issue for you. I'm kind of surprised they are after 5000 rounds, but that sounds like some standup customer service! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it most likely that one screw had failed already, and the other was still secure enough to keep the key sealed until it finally gave way. From the pictures (the ImageShack links don't work, so I can only zoom in on the smaller sized pics that were posted), it looks like there wasn't much gas leakage between the key and the carrier, maybe two or three rounds worth. Time for a new key and screws, and thanks for the reminder that I really need a backup carrier in my kit. Why so secretive about the manufacture? Maybe the staking did indeed weaken the bolt as suggested by a company that does not stake. Don't know why you quoted my post for this, but I'll answer your last bit. Staking displaces metal into the screw heads. The key in the pictures had equal metal displaced on both sides, and appears to have been machine staked - almost certainly both sides at the same time. There is no way this could stress the screw shafts. Even if it was done one side at a time, with the screws properly torqued, ALL of the energy from the staking would be AT THE TOP of the screw and into the head, not the shaft. Whoever it is (you didn't say) that says they don't stake because they say it weakens the screws is either using cheap screws or wants to make their "one step less to manufacture" carrier sound better. Ha ha ... Youngs is using cheap screws ... learn something new every day. |
| Sometime malfunctions like this have to do with quality mnaufacture of parts sometimes it doesnt....bottom friggen line these are machines and machines break so the lesson learned is have spares...anything can and will fail no matter how high the quality is..nothings perfect and nothing lasts forever. |
|
Yes my gas key snapped off after approximately 5k rounds. Some of you said why contact the manufacture and just get it fix by replacing parts. This was my first intention but then I realized this gas key issue should not have happened with the limited rounds. I gave a chance and contacted Colt. I provided a brief description and a picture. Colt responded the next day and wanted their QC people to examine my carrier group. As of today I received a brand new carrier group at no cost and will be sending my old one to Colt.
Great customer service, thank you Colt.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us" />
|
| I was interested in who the manufacturer was because I feel that some makers of the internal parts of ARs are better than others at making robust, long-lasting parts. Had it been a "lower tier" brand, I would have thought that 5k rounds was a lot. Colt? I cannot imagine Colt using "inexpensive" parts, even the occasional low cost screw or pin, where I can see that with smaller or "lesser" companies. And Colt's response is exactly what I would expect. |
| I am so jaded by being a military armorer for so long. When I was low enough in the ranks to actually be hands on we fixed broken guns all day long. For a while I worked at depot maintenance at the Gunsmith shop at Lackland AFB. We fixed thousands of guns weekly. If that same issue would have happened to me, I wouldn't have even thought about calling Colt, I would have just replaced the screws and called it a day. |
|
Quoted:
I am so jaded by being a military armorer for so long. When I was low enough in the ranks to actually be hands on we fixed broken guns all day long. For a while I worked at depot maintenance at the Gunsmith shop at Lackland AFB. We fixed thousands of guns weekly. If that same issue would have happened to me, I wouldn't have even thought about calling Colt, I would have just replaced the screws and called it a day. Just how many weapons are in the AF's system? I can't recall more than a handful of M4s/A4's ever needing work in any of the Army units I've been in. You have thousands.....weekly? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am so jaded by being a military armorer for so long. When I was low enough in the ranks to actually be hands on we fixed broken guns all day long. For a while I worked at depot maintenance at the Gunsmith shop at Lackland AFB. We fixed thousands of guns weekly. If that same issue would have happened to me, I wouldn't have even thought about calling Colt, I would have just replaced the screws and called it a day. Just how many weapons are in the AF's system? I can't recall more than a handful of M4s/A4's ever needing work in any of the Army units I've been in. You have thousands.....weekly? Lackland AFB, home of: Air Force Basic Training (all of it) USAF Security Forces Academy Pararescue Primary Training Combat Control Primary Training USAF EOD Primary Training They have thousands of rifles, between the Medina Annex, Camp Bullis, etc., they have a bunch of them. And many of them are fired every day, usually by some kid who never touched a firearm a month or two before... |
|
Quoted:
I was interested in who the manufacturer was because I feel that some makers of the internal parts of ARs are better than others at making robust, long-lasting parts. Had it been a "lower tier" brand, I would have thought that 5k rounds was a lot. Colt? I cannot imagine Colt using "inexpensive" parts, even the occasional low cost screw or pin, where I can see that with smaller or "lesser" companies. And Colt's response is exactly what I would expect. 
|
AR Sponsor