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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - First Tactical Purchase (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/18/2012 5:39:24 AM EDT
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Everyone,
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it so I went ahead and posted it again. I have always wanted an AR-15/Tactical firearm and have been looking at some of the shops here in town as well as on the internet. I know I can get a tactical that fires .223 (5.56) from $650 and up while I can get a tactical that fires 22LR for about $250. Obviously money is an object, but I would like to get the most bang for my buck; cause I can't just throw money away...so onto my question. Would it be better to buy the 22LR Tactical for $250 get used to it and just have fun firing (inexpensively) and when I want to step up to a "real" AR-15, drop another $650 on a "real" one or would it be better to drop the $650 on the "real" one now AND another $200 on a conversion kit or even buy a completely different upper receiver? Obviously the difference is only $50; but spending $850 now versus $900 over a year. Also, I'm not trying to insult anyone by calling an AR-15 "real" versus the 22LR tactical. I'm 42 and was in the army for 8 years and a 22 just seems like a kids weapon to me. So I'm trying to wrap my brain around all of these awesome looking 22LR's that are out now and weighing the fact that they are 22LR's vs a 5.56. I'm not really one to care TOO much about what people think about me; but I guess I just need to get with the times; if they've changed that much. I've watched several seasons of Top Shot and was surprised when they pulled out a 22LR rifle for the contestants to fire. So anyway, I'm just trying to figure out if the shooting community views 22LR's in a different light than they did 20 years ago. Thanks for the insight and help. |
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Well the good news is the AR in 223/556 will also shot the .22LR with the use of a conversion kit. I would save my $$$ until I had about $850-$900 to spend and get the AR, a good sling and some extra mags. Later you can pick up the kit and use the cheaper .22 ammo for plinking.
I would not buy one of the .22LR AR's that are out there. To me they are just an ugly looking squirrel rifle. 
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Do This: 1. Put together a PSA 5.56mm AR for around $700ish. 2. Later buy a CMMG 22lr conversion kit and mags for around $200ish. Shoot and Enjoy Both. Done. So, just buy an Upper and Lower receiver, slap them together and call it a day? I was thinking about that as well, but not sure if the parts are universal or if I had to buy THIS Upper Receiver with THAT lower receiver. Thoughts? |
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Well the good news is the AR in 223/556 will also shot the .22LR with the use of a conversion kit. I would save my $$$ until I had about $850-$900 to spend and get the AR, a good sling and some extra mags. Later you can pick up the kit and use the cheaper .22 ammo for plinking. I would not buy one of the .22LR AR's that are out there. To me they are just an ugly looking squirrel rifle.
. To be honest, it may just be me; but I don't think the S&W M&P 15-22 looks like a squirrel rifle; What are your thoughts" S&W M&P 15-22 |
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Any standard lower with a 5.56 / .223 upper will work with the 22lr conversion.
The S&W dedicated gets good reviews, but it's parts are generally not compatable with other "real" AR rifles. For example, the lower isn't a standard lower. You lose modularity and, in my opinion, sturdiness when you go to one of the 22lr "22 plinker in an AR shell" rifles. But no, it's not a squirrel rifle. If you want a dedicated 22, I'd still get a standard AR lower and buy a CMMG dedicated 22 upper. Still a better machine in my opinion. |
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Well the good news is the AR in 223/556 will also shot the .22LR with the use of a conversion kit. I would save my $$$ until I had about $850-$900 to spend and get the AR, a good sling and some extra mags. Later you can pick up the kit and use the cheaper .22 ammo for plinking. I would not buy one of the .22LR AR's that are out there. To me they are just an ugly looking squirrel rifle.
. To be honest, it may just be me; but I don't think the S&W M&P 15-22 looks like a squirrel rifle; What are your thoughts" S&W M&P 15-22 $600+ for a 22LR  No thanks.
The .22 is a squirrel round and 22's can be had for a lot less. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2MAR795-1.html . |
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The .22 kits are pretty finicky. What exactly are your goals with the .22 version? If you want to run say 22 matches where accuracy and reliability are important, then get at least a dedicated .22 AR, or better, yeah get one of the 'tactical' .22: MP1522, GSG5, Sig522.
If you just want to maybe practice some drills (with lots of malfunction drills, heh) then yeah, get a .22 kit for an AR. but, face it, before long you'll be like the rest of us: Several AR15s, couple AKs, a few 'tactical' 22s, a .22 kit in a box gathering dust, etc etc. 
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Do This: 1. Put together a PSA 5.56mm AR for around $700ish. 2. Later buy a CMMG 22lr conversion kit and mags for around $200ish. Shoot and Enjoy Both. Done. +1 on this idea. I have a CMMG 22LR conversion kit on the way from Primary Arms. I got it for $135 ($149 for the stainless) plus 8.49 for shipping. The same kit can be had from PSA for $130 plus $8 for shipping. I went with PA because of their fast shipping 
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Ok, please stop using the word tactical as a noun. It is an adjective.
tac·ti·cal [tak-ti-kuhl] adjective 1. of or pertaining to tactics, especially military or naval tactics. 2. characterized by skillful tactics or adroit maneuvering or procedure: tactical movements. 3. of or pertaining to a maneuver or plan of action designed as an expedient toward gaining a desired end or temporary advantage. 4. expedient; calculated. 5. prudent; politic. Ok, now that pet peeve is out of the way - A 5.56 AR is a rifle that has a role, its role can be defense, training, hunting, competition, or a combination of all of those. It is a stand alone platform and its strengths and weakness should not be compared to 22lr rifles. A 22lr rifle (not a 22lr AR) is the same. And cannot be compared to a 5.56 rifle... apples and oranges. A 22lr AR is the same. It can be used for defense (not ideal but its better than throwing rocks), hunting (better than throwing rocks and ideal for small game), competition (built right it can shine), and training (cheaper rounds, more time down range, same firearm means more practice which translates to better skills) A 22lr is a VERY viable platform for these reasons and just because it is plain fun. It makes NO difference if you start with a 22lr AR or a 5.56 AR unless your ideal wants/needs make one caliber or the other "better" for you. If you do start with a 22lr AR I suggest you choose a dedicated 22lr upper from CMMG, in a Lightweight profile, with the SS action. This will allow you to have a caliber specific rifle which is lightweight, reliable (minor tweaking involved based on your ammo choice and tolerances... this is known and once you get it running it will be STUPID reliable), and allow you to interchange parts easily with 5.56 accessories. A solid price for this is around $400-$450 ish... and it is well worth the cost. Please discount anyone who says that 22lr ARs should be thrown off the table completely, they have a role and excel at the role. To compare two different calibers with two different uses and roles is short sighted and I doubt anyone who actually knows what they are talking about would say differently. In the end it is up to you which caliber you start off with, and either will be a fine choice... in the end you WILL wind up with both if you are smart and you will love both of them for their own virtues and this whole conversation will seem silly in hindsight 
BTW - I have both dedicated 5.56 and 22lr ARs and I would fight to the death anyone who would try and take EITHER of them from me. |
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Do This: 1. Put together a PSA 5.56mm AR for around $700ish. 2. Later buy a CMMG 22lr conversion kit and mags for around $200ish. Shoot and Enjoy Both. Done. This would be the route I suggest also and if funds are limited, definitely go with the PSA kit.. |
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The .22 kits are pretty finicky. What exactly are your goals with the .22 version? If you want to run say 22 matches where accuracy and reliability are important, then get at least a dedicated .22 AR, or better, yeah get one of the 'tactical' .22: MP1522, GSG5, Sig522. If you just want to maybe practice some drills (with lots of malfunction drills, heh) then yeah, get a .22 kit for an AR. but, face it, before long you'll be like the rest of us: Several AR15s, couple AKs, a few 'tactical' 22s, a .22 kit in a box gathering dust, etc etc. If you're referring to conversion kits, namely CMMG, I disagree with this. They have and continue to build an excellent reputation. Both of mine, and a half a dozen others my buddies own all work flawlessly. Now, I had a Spikes dedicated that was a POS when I bought it and a POS after they worked on it, and a POS when they sent me replacement parts. It has been discontinued and rightfully so. I will say that the kits have one drawback from a 1:7 twist. Accurracy isn't the best because of the improper twist rate. Even though, I could still go kill squirrles or rabbits if I wanted with no problems. |
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Do This: 1. Put together a PSA 5.56mm AR for around $700ish. 2. Later buy a CMMG 22lr conversion kit and mags for around $200ish. Shoot and Enjoy Both. Done. PSA 16'' M4 CMV, Chrome-lined, Rifle Kit plus DH 5.56 30rd Aluminum Mag Approximately $524.90 shipped. PSA AR15 Lower (This is the part that is considered the firearm, has a serial number and must be shipped to someone with Federal Firearms License [gun dealer] to be registered.) Approximately $89.95 Shipped plus $25.00 for FFL. Equals $639.85 for an excellent AR15! |
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Spend $600 on a good, sturdy AR like an MP 15 Sport from s&W , DPMS also has a ton of them in this price range too.
If the .22 absolutely unequivocably HAS to match your main rifle, sure get a 22 LR conversion for starters, –– but i'd rather spend that $200 on a stand alone 10/22 . Yes , if you are legitimately doing "tactical training", then matching your rimfire to your duty rifle may make some sense, but i would personally prefer to have a "squirrel rifle" than a .22 AR for many purposes |
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Well the good news is the AR in 223/556 will also shot the .22LR with the use of a conversion kit. I would save my $$$ until I had about $850-$900 to spend and get the AR, a good sling and some extra mags. Later you can pick up the kit and use the cheaper .22 ammo for plinking. I would not buy one of the .22LR AR's that are out there. To me they are just an ugly looking squirrel rifle.
. To be honest, it may just be me; but I don't think the S&W M&P 15-22 looks like a squirrel rifle; What are your thoughts" S&W M&P 15-22 AmmoTech: I was just using that one as a picture. Honestly, if I were going to drop $600 on a tactical, then I would wait another week so I had $650 and go with an AR. Mossberg has a tactical 22 for like $250; that's why I was comparing the 22LR Tactical to the conversion kit. A local place has the Mossberg for $250, Bushmaster CAR15 for $700 and a 22LR conversion kit for $210. So the thought was drop $910 for a CAR15 and kit or $950 for both the Mossberg and the Bushmaster. But yeah, "cheaperthandirt" isn't anywhere close. $600+ for a 22LR No thanks.
The .22 is a squirrel round and 22's can be had for a lot less. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2MAR795-1.html . |
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Ok, please stop using the word tactical as a noun. It is an adjective. tac·ti·cal [tak-ti-kuhl] adjective 1. of or pertaining to tactics, especially military or naval tactics. 2. characterized by skillful tactics or adroit maneuvering or procedure: tactical movements. 3. of or pertaining to a maneuver or plan of action designed as an expedient toward gaining a desired end or temporary advantage. 4. expedient; calculated. 5. prudent; politic. Durabo, Sorry to get under your skin by my use of tactical; however I was going off the description of the firearm itself such as: "Mossberg 37202 Tactical 22lr ADJ STOCK"; and I was trying to use it to differenciate between the standard 22LR that I have had experience with (20+ years ago) and the new 22LR AR, as you used. I do appreciate your imput but I'm a little lost when it comes to everyone's acronym's here. I know CMMG is a particular brand/manufacturer of receivers, that's cool. But SS = Single Shot? I've seen others as well, on here "PSA" (Professional Shooters Association - Maybe); but I'll pick it up as I go along. Just trying to make sure I understand what you guys are talking about. What I would like is definitely training, possible competitions, but just to have fun (and not spend a butt load on ammo). I'm not a hunter, so that's definitely out of the consideration for me. Thanks again for the help. |
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Tacticool.
The SS they're referring to is Stainless Steel. PSA is Palmetto State Armory. They currently do not have any complete rifles in-stock. Also take a gander at Spikes Tactical. By the way, it's alright to be confused - I remember first getting into ARs, and being quite confused. Some of the characters on here can be abrasive, pay no mind to them.
Personally I would recommend a Colt. It's about as close to Mil-Spec as you can get, you won't find a better quality rifle. Yes they're in the $1,000 range, but you get what you pay for. It will last you a life-time and you pass it down to your kids. Buy once cry once. You have another option, would be putting one together yourself. I don't know how handy you are with your hands. It's not difficult at all. I would suggest picking up a Palmetto or Spike lower and assembling it yourself. And I would pick up a complete upper receiver. |
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Do This: 1. Put together a PSA 5.56mm AR for around $700ish. 2. Later buy a CMMG 22lr conversion kit and mags for around $200ish. Shoot and Enjoy Both. Done. PSA 16'' M4 CMV, Chrome-lined, Rifle Kit plus DH 5.56 30rd Aluminum Mag Approximately $524.90 shipped. PSA AR15 Lower (This is the part that is considered the firearm, has a serial number and must be shipped to someone with Federal Firearms License [gun dealer] to be registered.) Approximately $89.95 Shipped plus $25.00 for FFL. Equals $639.85 for an excellent AR15! MUCH Appreciated. I don't mind taking my time and building something, if it will save me money in the end. But I do need a little (or a lot depending) guidance and I appreciate you pointing out these items to me. Looking at the PSA 16" kit, am I reading it properly that there are no rear sights? Reason I ask is cause, well I need one, but it looks like it does come with a front; but an option is to add a rear sight or a rear & front sight. Think I should just grab the PSA Carry handle, but not sure if that would limit any scopes I may be able to get in the future. |
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Do This: 1. Put together a PSA 5.56mm AR for around $700ish. 2. Later buy a CMMG 22lr conversion kit and mags for around $200ish. Shoot and Enjoy Both. Done. So, just buy an Upper and Lower receiver, slap them together and call it a day? I was thinking about that as well, but not sure if the parts are universal or if I had to buy THIS Upper Receiver with THAT lower receiver. Thoughts? Yup. The AR15 is the leggo set of rifles. Lots of good info on .22 conversion kits in Rimfire and Pistol Calibers |
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Spend $600 on a good, sturdy AR like an MP 15 Sport from s&W , DPMS also has a ton of them in this price range too. If the .22 absolutely unequivocably HAS to match your main rifle, sure get a 22 LR conversion for starters, –– but i'd rather spend that $200 on a stand alone 10/22 . Yes , if you are legitimately doing "tactical training", then matching your rimfire to your duty rifle may make some sense, but i would personally prefer to have a "squirrel rifle" than a .22 AR for many purposes Red = No for two reasons... 1. He wanted "tactical" which eliminates the 10/22. 2. PSA has better specs than the "good sturdy MP Sport or DPMS" |
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Ok, to make things perfectly clear; I'm a computer nerd and the use of the word "Tactical" was merely because that's what the sites I was looking at called them.
I do not need any special training in tactics, as a police officer or swat member would; but it would be cool to do some of that stuff. Anyway, I was thinking about calling the subject "First AR Purchase"; but wasn't sure if the 22LR would be considered an AR, and the term "rifle" for this would have been too generalized even though it is in the AR15 forum. This is the "plinker" I was thinking about getting Mossberg 37202 "Tactical" 22LR Or this Bushmaster CAR15 As you can see, both have a similar look to them (AR Style) but a huge difference in price, like $450. Anyway, I grreatly appreciate everyone's help and guidance in this matter. |
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Ok, to make things perfectly clear; I'm a computer nerd and the use of the word "Tactical" was merely because that's what the sites I was looking at called them. I do not need any special training in tactics, as a police officer or swat member would; but it would be cool to do some of that stuff. Anyway, I was thinking about calling the subject "First AR Purchase"; but wasn't sure if the 22LR would be considered an AR, and the term "rifle" for this would have been too generalized even though it is in the AR15 forum. This is the "plinker" I was thinking about getting Mossberg 37202 "Tactical" 22LR Or this Bushmaster CAR15 As you can see, both have a similar look to them (AR Style) but a huge difference in price, like $450. Anyway, I grreatly appreciate everyone's help and guidance in this matter. I don't know about others, but my personal motivation in speaking on the word "tactical" was partly because it is a pet peeve of mine and partly to help you sound a little more professional and responsible. No ill intent or harm intended. The Mossberg you linked to i would not suggest, it uses non-standard AR parts and is not completely interchangeable with all standard AR parts. I will repeat my recommendation of a CMMG LW 22lr upper - http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/16-Light-Weight-22-Upper-1804 With these options - Price: $492.40 Bolt Upgrade SST Forward Collar Upgrade SS Collar Handguard Upgrade None Bolt Hold Open Actuator Upgrade Yes Add BHOA Magazine Maybe, but buying on the Equipment Exchange here is cheaper Contact the member here "ShadowCop" you can find him in the Rimfire section... I think he can get you a better price. Then purchase a Palmetto State Armory Lower setup like others have mentioned earlier - PSA This will give you a much better 22lr setup than the Mossberg. I would rather have a PSA setup for a 5.56 AR like others have mentioned instead of that Bushmaster. |
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Do This: 1. Put together a PSA 5.56mm AR for around $700ish. 2. Later buy a CMMG 22lr conversion kit and mags for around $200ish. Shoot and Enjoy Both. Done. PSA 16'' M4 CMV, Chrome-lined, Rifle Kit plus DH 5.56 30rd Aluminum Mag Approximately $524.90 shipped. PSA AR15 Lower (This is the part that is considered the firearm, has a serial number and must be shipped to someone with Federal Firearms License [gun dealer] to be registered.) Approximately $89.95 Shipped plus $25.00 for FFL. Equals $639.85 for an excellent AR15! MUCH Appreciated. I don't mind taking my time and building something, if it will save me money in the end. But I do need a little (or a lot depending) guidance and I appreciate you pointing out these items to me. Looking at the PSA 16" kit, am I reading it properly that there are no rear sights? Reason I ask is cause, well I need one, but it looks like it does come with a front; but an option is to add a rear sight or a rear & front sight. Think I should just grab the PSA Carry handle, but not sure if that would limit any scopes I may be able to get in the future. I have a RRA Tactical Carry Handle Assembly and a couple of mags I really have no use for that you can have. The nice part of this kit is the most crucial part of the assembly (mounting the barrel to the upper, that you need specialized tools for) is already done. Assembling a kit is a better to way to go than buying a complete rifle because you will save a lot of money doing your own gunsmithing, and frankly, it is lot of fun. |
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I don't know about others, but my personal motivation in speaking on the word "tactical" was partly because it is a pet peeve of mine and partly to help you sound a little more professional and responsible. No ill intent or harm intended. The Mossberg you linked to i would not suggest, it uses non-standard AR parts and is not completely interchangeable with all standard AR parts. I will repeat my recommendation of a CMMG LW 22lr upper - http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/16-Light-Weight-22-Upper-1804 With these options - Price: $492.40 Bolt Upgrade SST Forward Collar Upgrade SS Collar Handguard Upgrade None Bolt Hold Open Actuator Upgrade Yes Add BHOA Magazine Maybe, but buying on the Equipment Exchange here is cheaper Contact the member here "ShadowCop" you can find him in the Rimfire section... I think he can get you a better price. Then purchase a Palmetto State Armory Lower setup like others have mentioned earlier - PSA This will give you a much better 22lr setup than the Mossberg. I would rather have a PSA setup for a 5.56 AR like others have mentioned instead of that Bushmaster. I didn't take any offense to what you were saying about the word usage; so no worries there and I'm always open to learning new things and especially new vocabulary terms when it comes to something I like and am trying to sound at least a little as if I know what I'm talking about. So, your suggested .22 Upper would just go on top of the lower receiver I build or buy and then everything would be ok? I do appreciate all the information everyone has given me and I definitely won't turn away any free advice. |
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I didn't take any offense to what you were saying about the word usage; so no worries there and I'm always open to learning new things and especially new vocabulary terms when it comes to something I like and am trying to sound at least a little as if I know what I'm talking about. So, your suggested .22 Upper would just go on top of the lower receiver I build or buy and then everything would be ok? I do appreciate all the information everyone has given me and I definitely won't turn away any free advice. Correct. That upper will slap on to a standard lower. You could use that lower for both a 22lr upper and a 5.56 upper... eventually you will end up getting a second lower  , but this is a good stop gap until then.
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PSA 16'' M4 CMV, Chrome-lined, Rifle Kit plus DH 5.56 30rd Aluminum Mag Approximately $524.90 shipped. PSA AR15 Lower (This is the part that is considered the firearm, has a serial number and must be shipped to someone with Federal Firearms License [gun dealer] to be registered.) Approximately $89.95 Shipped plus $25.00 for FFL. Equals $639.85 for an excellent AR15! What's the difference between the PSA 16'' M4 CMV, Chrome-lined, Rifle Kit and the 16'' Mid-Length, Light profile, CMV, Chrome-lined, MP Rifle Kit? The only thing I see is that one is a "Lighter Profile" rifle kit. But looking at the picture, it looks like the lighter kit may be missing some of the pieces that the other one has. Since I'm not needing it for anything special, should I worry about the lighter one or just stay with the regular rifle kit? I know this seems like a dumb question, but the one thing I don't want to do is end up buying an rifle kit that won't be able to work with a stripped down lower receiver. |
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Also, what do you think of "Del-Ton" upper receivers? IF they are "all the same", then I can save about $30 off the price of the AR by purchasing the Upper Kit from Del-Ton and the Lower Receiver from PSA.
Obviously you wouldn't recommend PSA if they weren't quality; but I'm reading a lot now and people are saying a lot of different things about which they feel is better. I know all of it is personal preference, but I would rather spend the extra $30 and KNOW I made the right choice (for my first build) as opposed to saving $30 and regreting it in the long run. Del-Ton Kits |
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The M4 has a carbine length handguard which places the front sight about seven inches from the receiver. It also has a cut out for a 20mm grenade launcher and is thicker under the handguard to dissipate heat better.
The mid-length light profile has a mid-length handguard which places the front sight about nine inches from the receiver. It is thinner under the handguard and therefore lighter. I have no experience with Del-Ton so I cannot give an opinion. The Del-Ton kit for the M4 is $490 + $45 upgrade for a 1:7 twist barrel + whatever shipping is. M4 is desirable because it is a semi auto version of what the Army uses (proven combat design) with a 16 in barrel instead of 14.5 in. 1:7 is desirable because it will allow you to shoot heavier bullets (75 and 77 grain). |
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Also, what do you think of "Del-Ton" upper receivers? IF they are "all the same", then I can save about $30 off the price of the AR by purchasing the Upper Kit from Del-Ton and the Lower Receiver from PSA. Obviously you wouldn't recommend PSA if they weren't quality; but I'm reading a lot now and people are saying a lot of different things about which they feel is better. I know all of it is personal preference, but I would rather spend the extra $30 and KNOW I made the right choice (for my first build) as opposed to saving $30 and regreting it in the long run. Del-Ton Kits The Del-ton kits you linked to are not a chrome lined barrel. Its $45 to add chrome lining. PSAs kits are chrome lined barrels.They are also only 1/9 twist barrels. Which, while it should work fine, I'd rather have a 1/7 twist from PSA and chrome lining. |
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The Del-ton kits you linked to are not a chrome lined barrel. Its $45 to add chrome lining. PSAs kits are chrome lined barrels.They are also only 1/9 twist barrels. Which, while it should work fine, I'd rather have a 1/7 twist from PSA and chrome lining. Thanks for your information; greatly appreciate your help and insight. |
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OK, so what's so "special" about a "Chrome Lined Barrel"? I went to a local shop and they have "Zombie Hunter" Lowers (for $99) and a J&K (I think) complete upper like the PSA for $499. They did say that the J&K are not chrome lined, but that the chrome lined have a life span on them where the J&K last forever; if you take care of them.
So, why should I consider a chrome lined as a preferred barrel over one that is not? Anyone have any insight on this? |
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OK, so what's so "special" about a "Chrome Lined Barrel"? I went to a local shop and they have "Zombie Hunter" Lowers (for $99) and a J&K (I think) complete upper like the PSA for $499. They did say that the J&K are not chrome lined, but that the chrome lined have a life span on them where the J&K last forever; if you take care of them. So, why should I consider a chrome lined as a preferred barrel over one that is not? Anyone have any insight on this? Yes, it will absolutely handle more rounds down the tube..and with easier cleaning to boot. In addition, more resistant to corrosion. |
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J&T would probably be the brand they had. And your gun shop is full of crap. Chrome lined barrels will far out last a non chrome lined barrel. All barrels have a life span. The chrome lining provides corrosion resistance and, IIRC, the chrome lining is harder than the steel it is covering. The J&T upper is not quite like the PSA upper. Obviously you already know it isn't chrome lined. To my knowledge, J&T doesn't do the testing on their barrels and bolts that PSA's supplier does. J&T will also not sell you a full auto bolt carrier without an M16 tax stamp. For the same cost, I would pick the PSA all day long. As a matter of fact, I did. I just recently bought a PSA upper and sold my J&T upper.
Your gun shop was just trying to get you to buy what they had on the shelf. The lowers are decently priced however. Not the best price but if they are in spec and all that, its ok. |
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So, why should I consider a chrome lined as a preferred barrel over one that is not? Anyone have any insight on this? Chrome for ( not in particular order ) lubricity, corrosion resistance and wear resistance. For the high volume shooter a chrome bore is easier to clean. For the high rate of fire shooter chrome bore lasts longer. For the damp or wet climate living shooter a chrome bore is corrosion resistant. For the range toy safe queen it is a non issue. A couple things to keep in mind. The methods used to chrome barrels have changed boat loads in the last fifty years. The old method of making the bore and rifling oversize and plating ( inconsistently) back to size is seldom used anymore outside of crew served machine guns. |
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Ok thanks guys. I'm not sure what you consider "wet climate areas"; but I'm in Louisville, KY and don't plan on taking this out into the elements to fire it; however that doesn't mean that moisture won't get into it from carrying it to and from the range.
Also, they said that they can order anything that I want; so I can check with them on seeing what they would charge me for a PSA upper kit. It's obviouly the concept of "instant gratification" as opposed to waiting for it to come in. But, I guess the best things are worth the wait. |
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Ok thanks guys. I'm not sure what you consider "wet climate areas"; but I'm in Louisville, KY and don't plan on taking this out into the elements to fire it; however that doesn't mean that moisture won't get into it from carrying it to and from the range. Also, they said that they can order anything that I want; so I can check with them on seeing what they would charge me for a PSA upper kit. It's obviouly the concept of "instant gratification" as opposed to waiting for it to come in. But, I guess the best things are worth the wait. Order the PSA kit yourself if thats what you want. They're going to order it from the website just as you would and then mark it up to make a profit. And I don't know about Louisville, but it is very humid down here around Nashville. So anything that can play into your favor as far as keeping your firearms in their best condition is always a plus. Personally, I wouldn't order anything like that from a shop that told me that a non chrome lined barrel would last forever and that a chrome lined barrel would wear out first. They either A)don't know shit or B) are shady and playing on the fact that you don't know shit(no offense) and just trying to make a sale. |
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Ok thanks guys. I'm not sure what you consider "wet climate areas"; but I'm in Louisville, KY and don't plan on taking this out into the elements to fire it; however that doesn't mean that moisture won't get into it from carrying it to and from the range. Also, they said that they can order anything that I want; so I can check with them on seeing what they would charge me for a PSA upper kit. It's obviouly the concept of "instant gratification" as opposed to waiting for it to come in. But, I guess the best things are worth the wait. Order the PSA kit yourself if thats what you want. They're going to order it from the website just as you would and then mark it up to make a profit. And I don't know about Louisville, but it is very humid down here around Nashville. So anything that can play into your favor as far as keeping your firearms in their best condition is always a plus. Personally, I wouldn't order anything like that from a shop that told me that a non chrome lined barrel would last forever and that a chrome lined barrel would wear out first. They either A)don't know shit or B) are shady and playing on the fact that you don't know shit(no offense) and just trying to make a sale. Well, I don't know shit when it comes to building these things and what the new standards of firearms is. I know what I had to do to keep my service 16 operational; but that as several years ago. |
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Order the PSA kit yourself if thats what you want. They're going to order it from the website just as you would and then mark it up to make a profit. And I don't know about Louisville, but it is very humid down here around Nashville. So anything that can play into your favor as far as keeping your firearms in their best condition is always a plus. Personally, I wouldn't order anything like that from a shop that told me that a non chrome lined barrel would last forever and that a chrome lined barrel would wear out first. They either A)don't know shit or B) are shady and playing on the fact that you don't know shit(no offense) and just trying to make a sale. WELL, I found out what you mean by "B) Shady and playing on the fact that you don't know anything" because I finally found out why every one talks bad about Shooters Supply around here. This dude told me that a DCM AR is the only AR that has a round "actually go where you're pointing the barrel". UM, does that sound weird to anyone else here? I thought ALL firearms went where you were pointing the barrel...maybe this is something new that has emerged since I've been out of the Army. He also said that the only way a Chrome Lined barrel would matter was IF I completely submerged my AR under water and couldn't clean it for at least 30 minutes. Other than that, all barrels have a 3000 round lifespan on them. Sounds a little fishy to me...and did I mention this "perfectly matched rifle is ONLY $1100". Not bad when you're trying to figure out how to SAVE money. Oh, and the J&T from the local shop would be $50 more than the regular steel barrel; so not worth going through local area for chrome lines barrel, but I'll probably get the lower from them since it's only $99 and it will cost $89 (including S&H) to get the one from PSA. Can anyone give me their opnion on this scope? I hadn't thought about adding one, but it's only $50 Bushnell 3x9-40MM Scope ...But is it worth it? |
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I don't want to knock anyone's suggestions as most have been very good in my opinion. I just want to add a little more to think about.
You asked about the Del-Ton kit vs the PSA. I don't want to comment negatively on either. I do want to mention that while a 1-7 chrome lined barrel is great for a lot of people, it may not be great for all. In all honesty if your planning on shooting a .22LR conversion I think you would be better served with the Del-Ton's 1-9. Put it like this.....That option won't matter much to you. You will have a very slim chance of ever wearing out either. That being the case I would buy the cheaper one that better fit my needs. If you are leaning more towards a high volume of 5.56rds on a weekly basis then I would probably lean more towards the PSA. You have said a lot about what you want. I just want you to be very specific of your needs because all of these options will work. But if your like me you will value that extra money in your pocket. |
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I appreciate your opinion foursixty, a lot. I was chatting with a few guys at Shooter Supply and one thing they recommended over going with the 22LR conversion was to fire .223 rounds over 5.56. They said this wouldn't cost as much as the 5.56 but it would give me the feeling and weight of the 5.56 rifle. ..and in the end, devote the money that I would apply towards the 22LR upper towards a reloader and reload the rounds myself.
I have thought about this, but my "issue" is that I don't have a place to fire this weapon AND be able to police the brass. I may be able to police the brass at the local range, but I'm not 100% sure on that one. I also appreciate the cost aspect as well; since the money in my pocket will allow me to fire more rounds per month. Honestly, I was looking at about 800 rounds a month; about 400 every other week, is what I was really thinking about. However, there is always the possibility for more firing as we all know. |
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Well, I pulled the trigger on the PSA Rifle Kit and figured I would get a "Zombie Hunter" lower from a local shop; just in case I needed any technical advise from them..hopefully they would help a brotha out. Doubt it; but let's hope.
I bought the PSA Rifle Kit on Thursday afternoon and it is STILL in "Processing" status. My question is, what's the "average" processing time that most people have experienced from PSA? They only offered 1 form of S&H, which was ground; so I can't get it to me any faster than they want to send it. Obviously I'm just eager to get it in and start putting it together to then play with it; but I would have thought that they would/should have worked on Saturday and that it would at least be in a "shipping" or "shipped" status today. |
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Well, I pulled the trigger on the PSA Rifle Kit and figured I would get a "Zombie Hunter" lower from a local shop; just in case I needed any technical advise from them..hopefully they would help a brotha out. Doubt it; but let's hope. I bought the PSA Rifle Kit on Thursday afternoon and it is STILL in "Processing" status. My question is, what's the "average" processing time that most people have experienced from PSA? They only offered 1 form of S&H, which was ground; so I can't get it to me any faster than they want to send it. Obviously I'm just eager to get it in and start putting it together to then play with it; but I would have thought that they would/should have worked on Saturday and that it would at least be in a "shipping" or "shipped" status today. Based on what your gun shop has been telling you, I wouldn't trust them for shit. I think you might be better off going with a PSA lower... Who makes the "Zombie Hunter" lowers? Do you have enough experience looking at lowers to figure out off hand if that one is in spec or not? Look for things like angled Mag release catch holes... take a GOOD ruler or a mic with you and examine the walls of the lower making sure they are both about the same thickness and all of the holes line up with each other, purchase your LPK first, mic the pins, then mic the holes on the lower before purchasing it. Make sure PMAGs drop free. I am leery of lowers that aren't made by companies ive heard of before and based on the complete bullshit your shop has been feeding you they sound like they either wouldn't know an in spec lower if it bit them or they might be shady enough to buy some manufacturer seconds and pass them off as good stuff. I wouldn't be telling you this if you got a lower made by any of the site sponsors here as they all are known to only carry good stuff and they would stand behind it. I also still say that 22lr dedicated uppers are awesome btw 
At the VERY least, get it in writing that if the lower ends up not being in spec they will replace it free. |
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From what I can see online; either "Spike's Tactical" and it seems as though it's a "limited run" lower. I found this 94 page thread on here that people were discussing it. The one I have seen in their shop is a little different than the one posted here; so I'll try to swing by and get more details.
Also, they have stag arms lowers, I believe that was it...and either one is $99. AR15 "Zombie Hunter" Lower Receiver thread The one I saw has like "Zombie Hunter" on the right side of the lower and then some hash marks for the number of "zombies" it's killed. Didn't actually FEEL it or get a lot of info on it when I was there. Lastly, the only thing that THIS shop told me that was just plain WRONG, was the fact that Chrome Lined wouldn't last as long as a Steel barrel. However, I wasn't talking to their resident builder; just some younger dude who came from behind the range desk to help me...so I didn't take too much of what he said to heart. |
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ok, just called one of the local shops. the zombie hunter lower is made by double star and the other lower they sell is from spike's tactical. Thoughts on these lowers? By all accounts Doublestar is pretty decent and they stand behind their products and Spikes is beyond decent and will serve you very well. GTG. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - First Tactical Purchase (Page 1 of 2)
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