AR Sponsor
Posted: 1/24/2012 9:43:05 PM EDT
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My friend was in the army a few years ago, now he says he wants to buy a M4, I didn't say anything to him, but isn't the same as a AR?
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AR is merely the abbreviation of Armalite, which was a small arms engineering facility founded in the early 1950s, and once associated with the Fairchild Engine and Airplane Corporation that designed the AR and eventually evolved into the M4 of today. The main difference between an M4 and an AAR15 would be...
1) Barrel lenght (16" on an AR15 and 14.5" on an M4) 2) No selective fire capability on the AR15 Other than that, you can pretty much say they are very similar. |
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The M4 is a military designation for an assault rifle based off of the M-16 design. It is an assault rifle, which strictly means, it has a detachable magazine, fires an intermediate round and is selective fire.
An AR-15 is a generic term in todays world, used to describe any non-NFA or select fire sporting carbine, capable of only semi automatic fire. |
| AR=assault rifle. The first issue selectfire rifles were designated AR-15 and went into service marked as that. Not until the Army accepted the rifle after initial Fielding and testing did it get the M16 designation. The M15 was already taken by the S&W .38 special in its Combat Masterpiece revolver. I carried an M15 Smith on duty for 6 years along with my M16. I have 5 early 20 round Colt military issue magazines with aluminum followers that say AR-15, .223 Cal. with rampant Colt on the floorplates. (ASSAULT RIFLE 15 became the M16). Colt marketed its select fire rifle to police as the AR15 in the early 1960's. Just my.$.02 ........Mike |
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AR=assault rifle. The first issue selectfire rifles were designated AR-15 and went into service marked as that. Not until the Army accepted the rifle after initial Fielding and testing did it get the M16 designation. The M15 was already taken by the S&W .38 special in its Combat Masterpiece revolver. I carried an M15 Smith on duty for 6 years along with my M16. I have 5 early 20 round Colt military issue magazines with aluminum followers that say AR-15, .223 Cal. with rampant Colt on the floorplates. (ASSAULT RIFLE 15 became the M16). Colt marketed its select fire rifle to police as the AR15 in the early 1960's. Just my.$.02 ........Mike NO, this is wrong. AR = ARmalite |
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AR=assault rifle. The first issue selectfire rifles were designated AR-15 and went into service marked as that. Not until the Army accepted the rifle after initial Fielding and testing did it get the M16 designation. The M15 was already taken by the S&W .38 special in its Combat Masterpiece revolver. I carried an M15 Smith on duty for 6 years along with my M16. I have 5 early 20 round Colt military issue magazines with aluminum followers that say AR-15, .223 Cal. with rampant Colt on the floorplates. (ASSAULT RIFLE 15 became the M16). Colt marketed its select fire rifle to police as the AR15 in the early 1960's. Just my.$.02 ........Mike AR = Armalite CAR = Colt Automatic Rifle. Yes, both names apply to weapons based on a down-sized AR-10. I don't think the M15 revolver had anything to do with the naming of a rifle –– hell, we have M1 tanks, rifles, and carbines; M9 bayonets and pistols; M60 tanks and machine guns; etc. edited for speling EATA I like to think of an "M4" as only being a weapon that meets the specs of and has been procured by the US DoD; it's their gun, they get to define it as they wish. My naming conventions are simpler: I just call them all "the black gun", but that's mostly a COINTEL OP targeted at Mrs. Foxtrot. |
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Quoted: Also, the S&W is not the M15, it is the model 15.Quoted: AR=assault rifle. The first issue selectfire rifles were designated AR-15 and went into service marked as that. Not until the Army accepted the rifle after initial Fielding and testing did it get the M16 designation. The M15 was already taken by the S&W .38 special in its Combat Masterpiece revolver. I carried an M15 Smith on duty for 6 years along with my M16. I have 5 early 20 round Colt military issue magazines with aluminum followers that say AR-15, .223 Cal. with rampant Colt on the floorplates. (ASSAULT RIFLE 15 became the M16). Colt marketed its select fire rifle to police as the AR15 in the early 1960's. Just my.$.02 ........Mike NO, this is wrong. AR = ARmalite |
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AR is merely the abbreviation of Armalite, which was a small arms engineering facility founded in the early 1950s, and once associated with the Fairchild Engine and Airplane Corporation that designed the AR and eventually evolved into the M4 of today. The main difference between an M4 and an AAR15 would be... 1) Barrel lenght (16" on an AR15 and 14.5" on an M4) 2) No selective fire capability on the AR15 Other than that, you can pretty much say they are very similar. So then he can't get a m4 sure to select fire right? |
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Wow. I am amazed that this simple thing can get so confused. Some got it right, some got it half right, some got it completely wrong.
AR - Armalite Rifle. Not Assault Rifle, Not Automatic Rifle, Not ARmalite. M4 - Already been described fairly well, just a military designation of an AR set up in a specific manner that the military wants. Selective fire capability can be had in an AR, the military has selective fire in the M4 (obviously) Most civilians are running AR's with semi auto fire only (obviously) You can make a pattern rifle based on the M4 with the only real difference being selective fire capability. If your buddy wants to make a semi auto "M4" patterned off of the military spec's 14.5" barrel with an Extended A2 FH permanently attached. Carbine Length Gas System KAC rail ... right? not really certain on all the brands the military uses (I personally hate the M4 pattern for ergonomics) M4 "notch" - The cut on the barrel for attaching the launcher ( M203, pointless, but it is there) M4 Feedramps - another pointless thing for semi auto but whatever Milspec Stock Milspec parts and guts There. Congrats, your buddy has now built a generic rifle with horrid ergonomics and no style or sensibility. Let your buddy have that and you can enjoy the benefits of all of the other amazing parts/options and configs available to the consumer market. You could hand me a brand new off the rack Colt M4 with ACOG and Select Fire and I would just sell it and buy a bunch more of these 
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AR is a generic term beyond the initial offering from Armalite. An M4 would describe the carbine version of the weapon. As opposed to the M16, CAR15 or any other spec version. The M4 is an AR but all AR's are not M4's. This. There are plenty of factory full auto AR15s out there made before '85, so simply saying "the AR isn't auto and the M4 is" doesn't work. M4 is a DoD nomenclature designating a particular configuration of rifle based off the AR15 design, like M16, XM177, M231, etc... |
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AR is merely the abbreviation of Armalite, which was a small arms engineering facility founded in the early 1950s, and once associated with the Fairchild Engine and Airplane Corporation that designed the AR and eventually evolved into the M4 of today. The main difference between an M4 and an AAR15 would be... 1) Barrel lenght (16" on an AR15 and 14.5" on an M4) 2) No selective fire capability on the AR15 Other than that, you can pretty much say they are very similar. So then he can't get a m4 sure to select fire right? Sure he can, if he has about $15K laying around and can buy NFA goodies. Buy a transferable M16A2 lower, put an M4 stock and upper receiver on it. Or, buy a transferable DIAS and fit it to a Colt SP6921. |
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AR=assault rifle. The first issue selectfire rifles were designated AR-15 and went into service marked as that. Not until the Army accepted the rifle after initial Fielding and testing did it get the M16 designation. The M15 was already taken by the S&W .38 special in its Combat Masterpiece revolver. I carried an M15 Smith on duty for 6 years along with my M16. I have 5 early 20 round Colt military issue magazines with aluminum followers that say AR-15, .223 Cal. with rampant Colt on the floorplates. (ASSAULT RIFLE 15 became the M16). Colt marketed its select fire rifle to police as the AR15 in the early 1960's. Just my.$.02 ........Mike http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/126/314/3cd8a33a.png?1306264975  
Actually - the name "AR-15" was bought along with the design by Colt from Fairchild-Armalite. And there are select-fire "AR15s," the R601 was rollmarked "Colt Armalite AR-15 Model 01," and even early U.S. Property marked M16s and M16A1s (R603/4) were rollmarked: "COLT AR-15." Regardless of who owns it and what it "means," AR-15 is a commercial trade name, i.e. a brand name. Given the large number of clones on the commercial market, however, "AR15" has become a generic term to refer to anything using generally the same format and operating system. "AR15-style" is a big one, just like "Aimpoint-style" optics. "M" series designations - in military use - are for identifying and classifiying military hardware. Without going into the details of military nomenclature - there are several different ways and classifications for a type to be designated, or "type-classified." The "M16" designation denotes a military rifle, while the "M4" designation is a sequential carbine designation. As a bit of trivia, the XM177 was designated as a military SMG. However - both the "M4" and "M16" designations get used generically as well - for example, people tend to refer to any select-fire civilian transferrable lower as an "M16," while many people refer to all carbines as "M4s." Prior to that, it was "CAR-15" and "Commando," which you may hear used once in a while too. Unfortunately, the only real way to judge exactly what someone is talking about is going to be context - how much does an individual know, and how much of a stickler about nomenclature they are. I for example, am a nomeclature-nazi and I'm so anal retentive that I get palsies when someone leaves out the "A1" when referring to SOF weapons, and calling them M4s instead of M4A1s, even though SOCOM themselves do it most of the time. So you can be pretty certain when I say "M16," I mean the Colt Model 04 - R604 rifle only. I almost never say "AR15" because most of the time rifles bearing that name have other, more recognizeable names, like Colt R601 or AR6721, ect. I make use of "clone," "style," and "type," frequently, though. On the other hand - a new gun owner who just got out of the military might want an "M4" like they fired in the service - buy a DPMS AP4, and call it a day, and for the rest of his life, it'll be "his M4." Neither is strictly "wrong" unless you want to be a huge asshole about it. ~Augee |
| They are basically the same... technically only colt makes the "AR-15" and you can have an AR-15 that doesn't meet the exact specs of the military M4 (barrel length ect..). Just because your friend was in the Army doesn't mean you should take his advice when it comes to guns. I have a few friends in the army and half of them couldn't tell you the difference between an M4 and a spider monkey. |
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They are basically the same... technically only colt makes the "AR-15" and you can have an AR-15 that doesn't meet the exact specs of the military M4 (barrel length ect..). Just because your friend was in the Army doesn't mean you should take his advice when it comes to guns. I have a few friends in the army and half of them couldn't tell you the difference between an M4 and a spider monkey. Only real spider monkeys have parkerizing under their tail. |
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Lots of people people piping up in here who don't know what they are talking about...
In the generic lexicon of the ar-style rifle owning public, M4 has turned into a non-military term for pretty much any AR15 with the M203 cuts. If it has the M203 cut in the barrel, generally speaking, the other features of an M4 are also there, unless the owner has made modifications. Your friend could go into a gun store today and buy a Colt that says "M4 CARBINE" on it. |
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AR=assault rifle. The first issue selectfire rifles were designated AR-15 and went into service marked as that. Not until the Army accepted the rifle after initial Fielding and testing did it get the M16 designation. The M15 was already taken by the S&W .38 special in its Combat Masterpiece revolver. I carried an M15 Smith on duty for 6 years along with my M16. I have 5 early 20 round Colt military issue magazines with aluminum followers that say AR-15, .223 Cal. with rampant Colt on the floorplates. (ASSAULT RIFLE 15 became the M16). Colt marketed its select fire rifle to police as the AR15 in the early 1960's. Just my.$.02 ........Mike Wow, so wrong. 
AR = Armalite Rifle M4= Military designation for a specific AR15 spec. Simple as that. |
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My friend was in the army a few years ago, now he says he wants to buy a M4, I didn't say anything to him, but isn't the same as a AR? The AR15 was designed by Mikhail Kalashnikov in 1915 while working for American Railroad Inc, hence the "AR". 
This thread is full of the derp*, thought I'd add to the fray. ETA: * exception to this is Augee's as always, informative posts |
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AR=assault rifle. The first issue selectfire rifles were designated AR-15 and went into service marked as that. Not until the Army accepted the rifle after initial Fielding and testing did it get the M16 designation. The M15 was already taken by the S&W .38 special in its Combat Masterpiece revolver. I carried an M15 Smith on duty for 6 years along with my M16. I have 5 early 20 round Colt military issue magazines with aluminum followers that say AR-15, .223 Cal. with rampant Colt on the floorplates. (ASSAULT RIFLE 15 became the M16). Colt marketed its select fire rifle to police as the AR15 in the early 1960's. Just my.$.02 ........Mike http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/126/314/3cd8a33a.png?1306264975
Actually - the name "AR-15" was bought along with the design by Colt from Fairchild-Armalite. And there are select-fire "AR15s," the R601 was rollmarked "Colt Armalite AR-15 Model 01," and even early U.S. Property marked M16s and M16A1s (R603/4) were rollmarked: "COLT AR-15." Regardless of who owns it and what it "means," AR-15 is a commercial trade name, i.e. a brand name. Given the large number of clones on the commercial market, however, "AR15" has become a generic term to refer to anything using generally the same format and operating system. "AR15-style" is a big one, just like "Aimpoint-style" optics. "M" series designations - in military use - are for identifying and classifiying military hardware. Without going into the details of military nomenclature - there are several different ways and classifications for a type to be designated, or "type-classified." The "M16" designation denotes a military rifle, while the "M4" designation is a sequential carbine designation. As a bit of trivia, the XM177 was designated as a military SMG. However - both the "M4" and "M16" designations get used generically as well - for example, people tend to refer to any select-fire civilian transferrable lower as an "M16," while many people refer to all carbines as "M4s." Prior to that, it was "CAR-15" and "Commando," which you may hear used once in a while too. Unfortunately, the only real way to judge exactly what someone is talking about is going to be context - how much does an individual know, and how much of a stickler about nomenclature they are. I for example, am a nomeclature-nazi and I'm so anal retentive that I get palsies when someone leaves out the "A1" when referring to SOF weapons, and calling them M4s instead of M4A1s, even though SOCOM themselves do it most of the time. So you can be pretty certain when I say "M16," I mean the Colt Model 04 - R604 rifle only. I almost never say "AR15" because most of the time rifles bearing that name have other, more recognizeable names, like Colt R601 or AR6721, ect. I make use of "clone," "style," and "type," frequently, though. On the other hand - a new gun owner who just got out of the military might want an "M4" like they fired in the service - buy a DPMS AP4, and call it a day, and for the rest of his life, it'll be "his M4." Neither is strictly "wrong" unless you want to be a huge asshole about it. ~Augee This. |
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They are basically the same... technically only colt makes the "AR-15" and you can have an AR-15 that doesn't meet the exact specs of the military M4 (barrel length ect..). Just because your friend was in the Army doesn't mean you should take his advice when it comes to guns. I have a few friends in the army and half of them couldn't tell you the difference between an M4 and a spider monkey. Only real spider monkeys have parkerizing under their tail. haha i didn't mean this to be anything against the intelligence of these people... what i was trying to say is that just because someone is in the army doesn't necessarily make them a gun person. |
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Lots of people people piping up in here who don't know what they are talking about... In the generic lexicon of the ar-style rifle owning public, M4 has turned into a non-military term for pretty much any AR15 with the M203 cuts. If it has the M203 cut in the barrel, generally speaking, the other features of an M4 are also there, unless the owner has made modifications. Your friend could go into a gun store today and buy a Colt that says "M4 CARBINE" on it. True, I have 2 of these new Colt's, but I still consider them AR15's. If someone told me they have an M4 I would think they have a USGI rifle in their possession. But since Colt actually makes the M4 for the military, they have the right to stamp M4 on their civi models. But I think the stamp is there for bragging rights/marketing, and it's well deserved. First pic is Augee's (got to give out the credit) USGI Colt M4 Carbine, 3 round burst, government property: 
Colt's new SP6920 with "M4 Carbine" roll mark, still a semi auto AR15 in my opinion: 
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They are basically the same... technically only colt makes the "AR-15" and you can have an AR-15 that doesn't meet the exact specs of the military M4 (barrel length ect..). Just because your friend was in the Army doesn't mean you should take his advice when it comes to guns. I have a few friends in the army and half of them couldn't tell you the difference between an M4 and a spider monkey. Only real spider monkeys have parkerizing under their tail. LMFAO |
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AR=assault rifle. The first issue selectfire rifles were designated AR-15 and went into service marked as that. Not until the Army accepted the rifle after initial Fielding and testing did it get the M16 designation. The M15 was already taken by the S&W .38 special in its Combat Masterpiece revolver. I carried an M15 Smith on duty for 6 years along with my M16. I have 5 early 20 round Colt military issue magazines with aluminum followers that say AR-15, .223 Cal. with rampant Colt on the floorplates. (ASSAULT RIFLE 15 became the M16). Colt marketed its select fire rifle to police as the AR15 in the early 1960's. Just my.$.02 ........Mike If I recall correctly, the M15 rifle was a heavy barrel version of the M14, sort of like the new IAR, but I don't know if it was ever fielded. |
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Lots of people people piping up in here who don't know what they are talking about... In the generic lexicon of the ar-style rifle owning public, M4 has turned into a non-military term for pretty much any AR15 with the M203 cuts. If it has the M203 cut in the barrel, generally speaking, the other features of an M4 are also there, unless the owner has made modifications. Your friend could go into a gun store today and buy a Colt that says "M4 CARBINE" on it. True, I have 2 of these new Colt's, but I still consider them AR15's. If someone told me they have an M4 I would think they have a USGI rifle in their possession. But since Colt actually makes the M4 for the military, they have the right to stamp M4 on their civi models. But I think the stamp is there for bragging rights/marketing, and it's well deserved. First pic is Augee's (got to give out the credit) USGI Colt M4 Carbine, 3 round burst, government property: <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/ro920.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1337/ro920.jpg</a> Colt's new SP6920 with "M4 Carbine" roll mark, still a semi auto AR15 in my opinion: <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/215/sp6920carm1.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5844/sp6920carm1.jpg</a> This is just a side note, I don't think the name "M4" is owned by the military or Colt, in fact I believe Bushmaster and HK got into a legal dispute with Colt over it a few years ago and HK backed out but Bushmaster didn't and the courts agreed that it is a generic term for this style rifle we are discussing and therefore anyone could use it. M16 however, I THINK (and I might be wrong), is only a military designation and the rights to put it on a product don't belong to Colt or anyone else. They put it on rifles going to the US military. I only bring this up because of your comment about Colt having the right to put a rollmark on a receiver, I don't think it is necessarily true. It just happens to be true in the case of the M4. This thread is getting interesting. Back to the thread topic, in my opinion, just to keep things from getting confusing, I will call anything with the M203 barrel notch an M4, regardless of 14.5" or 16" or who made it or what they call it. Why? because it keeps it simple. If someone asks about my rifle, I'm not going to say "Do you mean the one with the M203 notch, 16" barrel, carbine length gas system, and collapsible stock?" No. I'm going to say "Oh, the M4?" |
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I personally feel anyone who calls any rifle an "M4" unless it is a USGI M4A1234whatever or its model number is "M4-whatever" is full of it and doesn't know what they are talking about. My 14 year old nephew used to do that crap when talking about my AR's and he knows better now. Too much Call of Duty.
Call it by its model or call it a rifle or call it an AR. But then again I can be a little anal about things like that. |
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I personally feel anyone who calls any rifle an "M4" unless it is a USGI M4A1234whatever or its model number is "M4-whatever" is full of it and doesn't know what they are talking about. My 14 year old nephew used to do that crap when talking about my AR's and he knows better now. Too much Call of Duty. Call it by its model or call it a rifle or call it an AR. But then again I can be a little anal about things like that. Here's my issue with your reasoning: If you have a Stag Model 1 and you tell someone "Model 1," they say "What's that? Like an M1 or something?" It's an M4, plain and simple. And considering that you can buy a gun right now that says "M4 CARBINE" on the side, I think it's a done deal. I don't want to go through the hassle of trying to explain to even my gun knowledgeable friends what an XM15-E2S is. It's an M4, done. Conversation over. It's like if you own a truck. You don't say, "Oh, I think I left my phone out in the silver Ford F-150 Lariat 4x4 crew cab short box with a 5.0L V8." You say, "Oh, I think I left my phone out in the truck." Some manufacturer called it truck first but everyone calls it truck now. Same with the M4, it's part of the generic lexicon. Here's the court case to prove that it is part of the generic lexicon, it's settled: Colt Defense LLC vs Bushmaster Firearms Inc EDIT: Here's the good line: "The magistrate judge concluded that the undisputed evidence established that M4 was a generic term for a class of carbines..." |
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I personally feel anyone who calls any rifle an "M4" unless it is a USGI M4A1234whatever or its model number is "M4-whatever" is full of it and doesn't know what they are talking about. My 14 year old nephew used to do that crap when talking about my AR's and he knows better now. Too much Call of Duty. Call it by its model or call it a rifle or call it an AR. But then again I can be a little anal about things like that. Here's my issue with your reasoning: If you have a Stag Model 1 and you tell someone "Model 1," they say "What's that? Like an M1 or something?" It's an M4, plain and simple. And considering that you can buy a gun right now that says "M4 CARBINE" on the side, I think it's a done deal. I don't want to go through the hassle of trying to explain to even my gun knowledgeable friends what an XM15-E2S is. It's an M4, done. Conversation over. It's like if you own a truck. You don't say, "Oh, I think I left my phone out in the silver Ford F-150 Lariat 4x4 crew cab short box with a 5.0L V8." You say, "Oh, I think I left my phone out in the truck." Some manufacturer called it truck first but everyone calls it truck now. Same with the M4, it's part of the generic lexicon. Here's the court case to prove that it is part of the generic lexicon, it's settled: Colt Defense LLC vs Bushmaster Firearms Inc EDIT: Here's the good line: "The magistrate judge concluded that the undisputed evidence established that M4 was a generic term for a class of carbines..." 
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AR=assault rifle. The first issue selectfire rifles were designated AR-15 and went into service marked as that. Not until the Army accepted the rifle after initial Fielding and testing did it get the M16 designation. The M15 was already taken by the S&W .38 special in its Combat Masterpiece revolver. I carried an M15 Smith on duty for 6 years along with my M16. I have 5 early 20 round Colt military issue magazines with aluminum followers that say AR-15, .223 Cal. with rampant Colt on the floorplates. (ASSAULT RIFLE 15 became the M16). Colt marketed its select fire rifle to police as the AR15 in the early 1960's. Just my.$.02 ........Mike NO, this is wrong. AR = ARmalite I was told back in the day it was AR=Automatic Rifle |
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I personally feel anyone who calls any rifle an "M4" unless it is a USGI M4A1234whatever or its model number is "M4-whatever" is full of it and doesn't know what they are talking about. My 14 year old nephew used to do that crap when talking about my AR's and he knows better now. Too much Call of Duty. Call it by its model or call it a rifle or call it an AR. But then again I can be a little anal about things like that. Here's my issue with your reasoning: If you have a Stag Model 1 and you tell someone "Model 1," they say "What's that? Like an M1 or something?" It's an M4, plain and simple. And considering that you can buy a gun right now that says "M4 CARBINE" on the side, I think it's a done deal. I don't want to go through the hassle of trying to explain to even my gun knowledgeable friends what an XM15-E2S is. It's an M4, done. Conversation over. It's like if you own a truck. You don't say, "Oh, I think I left my phone out in the silver Ford F-150 Lariat 4x4 crew cab short box with a 5.0L V8." You say, "Oh, I think I left my phone out in the truck." Some manufacturer called it truck first but everyone calls it truck now. Same with the M4, it's part of the generic lexicon. Here's the court case to prove that it is part of the generic lexicon, it's settled: Colt Defense LLC vs Bushmaster Firearms Inc EDIT: Here's the good line: "The magistrate judge concluded that the undisputed evidence established that M4 was a generic term for a class of carbines..." The magistrate judge didn't know shit about firearms terminology either. If you call your Stag Model One an M4 I'll tell you to stop playing so much call of duty. And to the guy posting the funny picture, possibly You should re read the tech forums rules again. Although this thread has passed the point of having any technical merit awhile ago. |
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