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Posted: 9/6/2011 3:00:46 AM EDT
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Was thinking about sending a lower to JP rifles. They have a deal where they will install their old school trigger assembly and professionally fit it all and verify it for a good & safe trigger pull...
I hate stock trigger pull. This will be a SBR lower which may hose a variety of different uppers in different roles so I want a rugged but light/smooth single stage trigger. But I have heard some people say that no after-market trigger is robust enough to be used in a CQB tactical type carbine class, basically in anything other than a designated marksman or sniper rifle. Not to say that every non standard trigger fails in a carbine class, but that some instances of every make of after market trigger fails in high round count classes. Not sure if they were just talking about drop in modules though... I think it is in that long Pat Rogers broken parts thread... I heard about that guy that shines up stock triggers, but I also hear a small # of people state that his work has made their guns double... I'm just not interested in that |
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Sounds like you want JP Rifles 'Tactical/Duty'. It's a 3.5-4.0lb trigger that is designed to meet the reliability needs of the LE/mil community. They can do this through the send in your lower program. AFAIK, this is the same trigger Kyle Lamb of VTAC uses. If that name means anything to you.
VTAC 2x2x2 drill |
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I use the original style JP triggers and I really like them. I run my ARs pretty hard and put lots of rounds though them and have had no problems with any JP trigger. I have one in a 308 AR and two others in AR15s. In my opinion the JP trigger is one of the best values out there.
I run all sorts of ammo from mil surp to handloads to Wolf and never have any sort of issue. I do run the Tactical/Duty springs in mine just to be sure. - JP Trigger I know it's not for everyone, but I find it easy and enjoyable to install them myself. It is not difficult and the trigger comes with a dvd to run on the cpu that walks you through how to install. I put ARs together though and find that easy and enjoyable as well and I understand that not everyone does. |
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Is the somewhat heavy weight of that jp trigger you mention key to its reliability outside of ensuring ignition on hard military primers? Thx. It's mainly for primer ignition. Reliability otherwise is a matter of sear and disconnector fitment. In the original kit you do the fitting. However, you now have the option of sending the lower to them for proper fitting and adjustment or getting one of their EZ kits which requires less fitting. But for the price of the EZ kit, you could expand your options to triggers such as the AR Gold or Wilson Combat TTU. Although, the JP, Wilson, and AR Gold are probably pretty close in performance. |
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Is the somewhat heavy weight of that jp trigger you mention key to its reliability outside of ensuring ignition on hard military primers? Thx. It's mainly for primer ignition. Reliability otherwise is a matter of sear and disconnector fitment. In the original kit you do the fitting. However, you now have the option of sending the lower to them for proper fitting and adjustment or getting one of their EZ kits which requires less fitting. But for the price of the EZ kit, you could expand your options to triggers such as the AR Gold or Wilson Combat TTU. Although, the JP, Wilson, and AR Gold are probably pretty close in performance. For the price of the JP EZ trigger, you can have the old style tirgger professionally installed. I am fairly handy, I have build like 5 ARs so I could prolly do the fitting on an old school trigger but do i have the time. How long did it take you to fit and install the old JP trigger the first time? |
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I have installed a bunch of the JP triggers and it takes every bit of an hour to get it right and it don't take much to get it wrong. It isn't hard but i have the attention span of a small furry mammal and OCD about trigger pulls, so I end up frustrating myself. Patience and a good fine stone and attention to detail help. Shortcuts, files, dremels, hammers, etc, will make it a not good time.
The JP lowers with the trigger installed are pretty good deals and if the quality of the installs on those are any indicator I'd say it would be worth it to send yours in and have them install it. JP is top notch to deal with. Real people who know their shit. A lot of companies make good products, but it is less common for the person who picks up the phone to be up on all the nuances of all of them. |
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I have installed a bunch of the JP triggers and it takes every bit of an hour to get it right and it don't take much to get it wrong. It isn't hard but i have the attention span of a small furry mammal and OCD about trigger pulls, so I end up frustrating myself. Patience and a good fine stone and attention to detail help. Shortcuts, files, dremels, hammers, etc, will make it a not good time. The JP lowers with the trigger installed are pretty good deals and if the quality of the installs on those are any indicator I'd say it would be worth it to send yours in and have them install it. JP is top notch to deal with. Real people who know their shit. A lot of companies make good products, but it is less common for the person who picks up the phone to be up on all the nuances of all of them. If it is really this involved, why not just buy a comparable Geissele trigger? They are as easy to install as a standard trigger. I don;t like shipping serial numbered parts out any more than I have to. Trust issues.... |
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I have installed a bunch of the JP triggers and it takes every bit of an hour to get it right and it don't take much to get it wrong. It isn't hard but i have the attention span of a small furry mammal and OCD about trigger pulls, so I end up frustrating myself. Patience and a good fine stone and attention to detail help. Shortcuts, files, dremels, hammers, etc, will make it a not good time. The JP lowers with the trigger installed are pretty good deals and if the quality of the installs on those are any indicator I'd say it would be worth it to send yours in and have them install it. JP is top notch to deal with. Real people who know their shit. A lot of companies make good products, but it is less common for the person who picks up the phone to be up on all the nuances of all of them. If it is really this involved, why not just buy a comparable Geissele trigger? They are as easy to install as a standard trigger. I don;t like shipping serial numbered parts out any more than I have to. Trust issues.... the rear of the trigger has to be ground down to size to fit under the saftey. this takes all the pretravel out of the system. It is not had at all. turn 2 screws do some grinding, time the disco if need be, add some loctie wait 24 hours for loctite to cure. eta. files will not work. |
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I have installed a bunch of the JP triggers and it takes every bit of an hour to get it right and it don't take much to get it wrong. It isn't hard but i have the attention span of a small furry mammal and OCD about trigger pulls, so I end up frustrating myself. Patience and a good fine stone and attention to detail help. Shortcuts, files, dremels, hammers, etc, will make it a not good time. The JP lowers with the trigger installed are pretty good deals and if the quality of the installs on those are any indicator I'd say it would be worth it to send yours in and have them install it. JP is top notch to deal with. Real people who know their shit. A lot of companies make good products, but it is less common for the person who picks up the phone to be up on all the nuances of all of them. If it is really this involved, why not just buy a comparable Geissele trigger? They are as easy to install as a standard trigger. I don;t like shipping serial numbered parts out any more than I have to. Trust issues.... Because it's not comparable. The Geissele will still have a longer pull and reset. This is my biggest complaint when I compare my S3G and my AR Gold. The AR Gold kicks the S3G's butt in both pull length and reset length. The JP's I've tried have been much closer to the AR Gold. If I had the patience and could do it all over again, I would've sent my lower in to JP for one of their duty or enhanced reliability triggers. Instead I fell for the Geissele hype and bought the S3G. The only thing the Geissele really wins at is the tactile feel of the reset. In that regard it is much more positive, but then again so are mil-spec factory triggers. |
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Quoted: Because it's not comparable. The Geissele will still have a longer pull and reset. This is my biggest complaint when I compare my S3G and my AR Gold. The AR Gold kicks the S3G's butt in both pull length and reset length. The JP's I've tried have been much closer to the AR Gold. If I had the patience and could do it all over again, I would've sent my lower in to JP for one of their duty or enhanced reliability triggers. Instead I fell for the Geissele hype and bought the S3G. The only thing the Geissele really wins at is the tactile feel of the reset. In that regard it is much more positive, but then again so are mil-spec factory triggers. Wow of all the posts I've ever read including reviews at Midway are glowing. I appreciate this dissenting and informed opinion. I was thinking of the S3G put will look at other triggers. |
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Because it's not comparable. The Geissele will still have a longer pull and reset. This is my biggest complaint when I compare my S3G and my AR Gold. The AR Gold kicks the S3G's butt in both pull length and reset length. The JP's I've tried have been much closer to the AR Gold. If I had the patience and could do it all over again, I would've sent my lower in to JP for one of their duty or enhanced reliability triggers. Instead I fell for the Geissele hype and bought the S3G. The only thing the Geissele really wins at is the tactile feel of the reset. In that regard it is much more positive, but then again so are mil-spec factory triggers. Wow of all the posts I've ever read including reviews at Midway are glowing. I appreciate this dissenting and informed opinion. I was thinking of the S3G put will look at other triggers. I have the S3G and I hate it. It is a turd compared to my SD3G. The SD3G has an incredibly light pull and short reset.... straight out of the bag. Even though there is only one different letter in the model name, they feel worlds apart. |
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Because it's not comparable. The Geissele will still have a longer pull and reset. This is my biggest complaint when I compare my S3G and my AR Gold. The AR Gold kicks the S3G's butt in both pull length and reset length. The JP's I've tried have been much closer to the AR Gold. If I had the patience and could do it all over again, I would've sent my lower in to JP for one of their duty or enhanced reliability triggers. Instead I fell for the Geissele hype and bought the S3G. The only thing the Geissele really wins at is the tactile feel of the reset. In that regard it is much more positive, but then again so are mil-spec factory triggers. Wow of all the posts I've ever read including reviews at Midway are glowing. I appreciate this dissenting and informed opinion. I was thinking of the S3G put will look at other triggers. I have the S3G and I hate it. It is a turd compared to my SD3G. The SD3G has an incredibly light pull and short reset.... straight out of the bag. Even though there is only one different letter in the model name, they feel worlds apart. There are also variables in receivers that can cause vast differences in the feel of a trigger. I had another brand of trigger for a while that I thought sucked and I ended up giving it to a friend who absolutely loves it. It wasn't an adjustable unit, and it had a decent break but a huge amount of over travel, in my friend's gun it felt much better. |
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Because it's not comparable. The Geissele will still have a longer pull and reset. This is my biggest complaint when I compare my S3G and my AR Gold. The AR Gold kicks the S3G's butt in both pull length and reset length. The JP's I've tried have been much closer to the AR Gold. If I had the patience and could do it all over again, I would've sent my lower in to JP for one of their duty or enhanced reliability triggers. Instead I fell for the Geissele hype and bought the S3G. The only thing the Geissele really wins at is the tactile feel of the reset. In that regard it is much more positive, but then again so are mil-spec factory triggers. Wow of all the posts I've ever read including reviews at Midway are glowing. I appreciate this dissenting and informed opinion. I was thinking of the S3G put will look at other triggers. I have the S3G and I hate it. It is a turd compared to my SD3G. The SD3G has an incredibly light pull and short reset.... straight out of the bag. Even though there is only one different letter in the model name, they feel worlds apart. There are also variables in receivers that can cause vast differences in the feel of a trigger. I had another brand of trigger for a while that I thought sucked and I ended up giving it to a friend who absolutely loves it. It wasn't an adjustable unit, and it had a decent break but a huge amount of over travel, in my friend's gun it felt much better. This is why a trigger module may not be able to be as good as a fitted FCG. Tis the nature of interchangible parts. Example: a pair of ar receivers may fit sloppy or tight as if they were fitted. You cannot have both completely interchangable parts AND exteremly tight tolerances & clearances. So, the stock trigger relies on some shitty geometry that forces you to draw the hammer back into the hammer spring as the trigger slides over the sear. |
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Because it's not comparable. The Geissele will still have a longer pull and reset. This is my biggest complaint when I compare my S3G and my AR Gold. The AR Gold kicks the S3G's butt in both pull length and reset length. The JP's I've tried have been much closer to the AR Gold. If I had the patience and could do it all over again, I would've sent my lower in to JP for one of their duty or enhanced reliability triggers. Instead I fell for the Geissele hype and bought the S3G. The only thing the Geissele really wins at is the tactile feel of the reset. In that regard it is much more positive, but then again so are mil-spec factory triggers. Wow of all the posts I've ever read including reviews at Midway are glowing. I appreciate this dissenting and informed opinion. I was thinking of the S3G put will look at other triggers. I have the S3G and I hate it. It is a turd compared to my SD3G. The SD3G has an incredibly light pull and short reset.... straight out of the bag. Even though there is only one different letter in the model name, they feel worlds apart. There are also variables in receivers that can cause vast differences in the feel of a trigger. I had another brand of trigger for a while that I thought sucked and I ended up giving it to a friend who absolutely loves it. It wasn't an adjustable unit, and it had a decent break but a huge amount of over travel, in my friend's gun it felt much better. The JP kit does not have this problem as it is fit to your lower and parts. |
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Because it's not comparable. The Geissele will still have a longer pull and reset. This is my biggest complaint when I compare my S3G and my AR Gold. The AR Gold kicks the S3G's butt in both pull length and reset length. The JP's I've tried have been much closer to the AR Gold. If I had the patience and could do it all over again, I would've sent my lower in to JP for one of their duty or enhanced reliability triggers. Instead I fell for the Geissele hype and bought the S3G. The only thing the Geissele really wins at is the tactile feel of the reset. In that regard it is much more positive, but then again so are mil-spec factory triggers. Wow of all the posts I've ever read including reviews at Midway are glowing. I appreciate this dissenting and informed opinion. I was thinking of the S3G put will look at other triggers. I have the S3G and I hate it. It is a turd compared to my SD3G. The SD3G has an incredibly light pull and short reset.... straight out of the bag. Even though there is only one different letter in the model name, they feel worlds apart. Interesting comment. I am wondering if you have another trigger to compare the SD3G to besides another Geissele. Although I don't doubt that the S3G and the SD3G can feel different, the internal mechanics according to Geissele website are the same. **ETA: Does your SD3G operate like in the following video link? If so, I stand by my statement that the AR Gold and JP Trigger are far superior. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdnYvU0EHvE Btw, not my video. Alright y'all? Also I would embed the video, but seems like I don't have that privilege. |
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