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Posted: 5/26/2011 12:23:33 PM EDT
The following information came to me in a bulletin distributed within the law enforcement community. I have full faith in the accuracy of the report but provide this only for informational purposes.
This incident took place at a Firearms Instructor Development course. The malfunction was attributed to the ammunition - specifically by a telescoping round. This occurs when the bullet is not crimped properly to the casing and when fed from the magazine into the bolt assembly it telescopes backwards into the casing, causing a dramatic increase in pressure. The type of ammunition in use was the Remington Premier Match .223 Remington, 62gr. HP (Match) R223R6. 
Fortunately, the officer was not injured but you are reminded to always carefully inspect all ammunition regularly. 
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I guess it can happen with any ammunition, but this is not the first thread I've read on here about a KB with Remington Ammo. Makes me want to shy away. For what it's worth, Winchester and Federal have had their time under the magnifying glass as well. I have a few boxes of 69gr Federal Match that can't be used in an AR unless you drop them into the chamber by hand. The reason is that they are crimped very lightly and lack a cannelure, so whenever you try to chamber one normally the bullet pushes back into the case every time. Some of you might remember when Hornady TAP didn't have a cannelure either: 
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Quoted: well crap, i just bought this.... http://www.patriotoutfitters.com/scripts/z.exe/sbproc?action=sp25614 is it the same stuff? i dont have the boxes anymore since its all in magazines..... This was Remington's 62gr 'Match' bullet. Your link is for the 62gr FMJ. Does your bullet have a cannelure? |
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I don't buy the "telescoping" hypothesis one bit. While this IS a hazard with PISTOL rounds, most .223 Rem/5.56 NATO rounds are damn near 100% full and the little loss of case volume will not influence the burning rate of the powder to create a 70,000+ PSI event that would cause a head failure. The reason? Deep seating the bullets increases freebore, the distance the bullet travels until it engraves on the rifling and then pressure can build to effect full ignition. Rifle propellants are heavily coated with burn deterrents, these slow ignition of the surface. Now in a pistol, the propellants do not have heavy deterrents unless a magnum propellant like W296/H110. And the case volume decrease in a pistol cartridge from telescoping is far greater due to larger bullet diameter and much lower case volume. And most pistol cases have far lower working pressure. That is a case head failure or gross excessive head space. |
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I don't buy the "telescoping" hypothesis one bit. While this IS a hazard with PISTOL rounds, most .223 Rem/5.56 NATO rounds are damn near 100% full and the little loss of case volume will not influence the burning rate of the powder to create a 70,000+ PSI event that would cause a head failure. The reason? Deep seating the bullets increases freebore, the distance the bullet travels until it engraves on the rifling and then pressure can build to effect full ignition. Rifle propellants are heavily coated with burn deterrents, these slow ignition of the surface. Now in a pistol, the propellants do not have heavy deterrents unless a magnum propellant like W296/H110. And the case volume decrease in a pistol cartridge from telescoping is far greater due to larger bullet diameter and much lower case volume. And most pistol cases have far lower working pressure. That is a case head failure or gross excessive head space. I tend to believe the case failure hypothesis as well. As a long time handloader, I really want to know what happened here. One thing I do know is that I try to use ball powders that nearly fill the case without compressing the load. Even if the bullet were seated loosely in one of these loads, it would only "telescope" a fraction of an inch before it compresses the powder. There are some loads that will compress the charge out of necessity so that in itself isn't exactly a bad thing. Oddly enough, the problem could be with economics. Using a stick powder like 4198 will yield many more rounds per pound than a ball powder will due to lighter charge weights. I don't use the 69 grain bullets in my handloads but a 55 grain bullet could go down inside a case pretty far with stick powder loads if one were to force the issue. |
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The mechanism of a "telescoping round failure" is that the bullet sets back into the case and reduces case volume, often significantly. In a nearly-full round like almost all .223/5.56mm loadings, the bullet cannot push back very far, as compared to a 9mm or .45 ACP round where there is plenty of room for the bullet to set back.
Even with a hot 5.56mm-class round, the catastrophic failure in the OP is way beyond what a telescoped bullet should be able to do. At most that should only be able to "noticeably" increase pressure, with a popped primer or other case head damage. Wrong powder/overload, oversize bullet (admittedly very, very unlikely) or (most likely) case failure with a high pressure load are better fits for the evidence. Yes, it is 99.999% certain to be an ammo problem, but bullet setback? It just doesn't add up. There are far too many active hand loaders that do not bother to crimp at all who report consistently accurate and safe performance with even very high performance loads for a "Remington didn't crimp the rounds right" explanation to be the root of this failure. |
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I understand the Police Dept.s look for the lowest price ammo. they can get, but many time the lowest price Ammo. turns out being pretty damn costly.  What department are you on or familiar with that looks for the lowest price ammunition? why ask such a stupid question? You think they all buy the highest Ammo. Bid? All Dept.s deal through their Cities bean counters and they only look at the bottom line, meaning the cheapest prices. 
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I understand the Police Dept.s look for the lowest price ammo. they can get, but many time the lowest price Ammo. turns out being pretty damn costly. What department are you on or familiar with that looks for the lowest price ammunition? Every one that I know of, and all of the ones I have worked for. |
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I guess it can happen with any ammunition, but this is not the first thread I've read on here about a KB with Remington Ammo. Makes me want to shy away. It could, but is that remington match ammo rated for semis? I seem to remember some remington ammo that wasn't supposed to be used in anything other then a bolt gun. But I tend to stay away from remington ammo as much as I can. |
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is this the same RRA that blew up last month? Looks like the same one to me. I just read that thread yesterday. Ammo loaded with pistol powder was the culprit in that case. Do you have a link which confirms this? I'm surprised Remington would admit it––unless RRA or someone else confirmed the remaining rounds were loaded with the incorrect powder.. |
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If this was indeed factory ammo, it is highly unlikely it is the wrong propellant. This is most likely an incorrectly formed case, most likely it is an improperly annealed case neck. Cases must have a work-hardened case head, this is the only way a case can survive 60,000 PSI or more. Yet the case neck must be soft enough to expand to seal the chamber. Yet the case neck is the area that experiences the most plastic deformation, to restore the brass in this area, it is heated to anneal it. This is done with an inductive coil which uses high frequency current to directly heat the brass. This is flameless and the fastest method. Now if the case is inserted the wrong way, the inductive annealer will just as easily anneal the head. And since most commercial ammo is polished after annealing, unlike military ammo, it would never be noticed. |
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If this was indeed factory ammo, it is highly unlikely it is the wrong propellant. This is most likely an incorrectly formed case, most likely it is an improperly annealed case neck. Cases must have a work-hardened case head, this is the only way a case can survive 60,000 PSI or more. Yet the case neck must be soft enough to expand to seal the chamber. Yet the case neck is the area that experiences the most plastic deformation, to restore the brass in this area, it is heated to anneal it. This is done with an inductive coil which uses high frequency current to directly heat the brass. This is flameless and the fastest method. Now if the case is inserted the wrong way, the inductive annealer will just as easily anneal the head. And since most commercial ammo is polished after annealing, unlike military ammo, it would never be noticed. I've seen this happen with a .30/06 factory round about 5 years ago. The culprit was traced to a "backwards" annealed case, failed at the case head. This was in a Winchester mod 70, which was damaged, but not destroyed, (not my rifle, so I don't know how bad the damage turned out to be). I seem to remember that the ammunition was manufatured by Fed., but can't be sure. It caused quite a mess. |
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I have been saying for a long time that I will not shoot remington ammo in my AR. Specifically UMC. Nor I in my Glocks. The ONLY FTE I've ever had with my Glocks was due to Remington UMC. Their QC is shit in my book. After I had the FTE, I inspected the rest of the ammo in the box and found a second round that was crimped along the length of the casing. NEVER will I buy Remington UMC again. For target and qualifying ammo it's WWB for this guy. |
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I have been saying for a long time that I will not shoot remington ammo in my AR. Specifically UMC. Nor I in my Glocks. The ONLY FTE I've ever had with my Glocks was due to Remington UMC. Their QC is shit in my book. After I had the FTE, I inspected the rest of the ammo in the box and found a second round that was crimped along the length of the casing. NEVER will I buy Remington UMC again. For target and qualifying ammo it's WWB for this guy. You will find that cheap junk Ammo. at WalMarts and Academy. 
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I understand the Police Dept.s look for the lowest price ammo. they can get, but many time the lowest price Ammo. turns out being pretty damn costly. What department are you on or familiar with that looks for the lowest price ammunition? Every one that I know of, and all of the ones I have worked for. This. We buy good duty ammo but the cheapest practice ammo we can get. Same for the other agencies in the area. We don't get enough ammo to train properly buying cheap stuff. |
...just imagined this occurring in a bullpup rifle and the effect on ones face...now I don't want a bullpup haha
That is scary
| This destruction may have been caused by firing ammunition with loose neck tension, but not because the bullet was pushed back into the case. When the bolt slams the cartridge into the chamber, the loose neck tension can let the bullet slip forward into the rifling which in turn, can cause a catastrophic pressure spike and destroy the rifle |
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I understand the Police Dept.s look for the lowest price ammo. they can get, but many time the lowest price Ammo. turns out being pretty damn costly. What department are you on or familiar with that looks for the lowest price ammunition? why ask such a stupid question? You think they all buy the highest Ammo. Bid? All Dept.s deal through their Cities bean counters and they only look at the bottom line, meaning the cheapest prices. I suspect my employer could find less expensive ammo that Winchester Supreme Ballistic Tip for our rifles, Federal tactical for our shotguns and Federal HST for our handguns. |
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Didn't see it posted in this thread, but Remington recalled certain lots of this ammunition back in March:
http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/safety-center/safety-warning-recall-notice-Remington223-62Gr-HollowPoint.aspx |
| The Remington recall is probably applicable to this ammo/rifle issue. Shit happens. I would be willing to bet that the other rounds fired, if examined, would have shown over pressure signs such as flattened primers, pierced primers and/or blown primers. Because the ammo was issued as store bought nobody probably bothered to examine the fired cases. If we take anything away from this post it we should be examining every brand of ammo for these indicators regardless of where it was sourced. |
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Didn't see it posted in this thread, but Remington recalled certain lots of this ammunition back in March: http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/safety-center/safety-warning-recall-notice-Remington223-62Gr-HollowPoint.aspx You think the Dept. bought this type Ammo? REMINGTON .223 62 GR (MATCH) HOLLOW POINT AMMUNITION |
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Didn't see it posted in this thread, but Remington recalled certain lots of this ammunition back in March: http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/safety-center/safety-warning-recall-notice-Remington223-62Gr-HollowPoint.aspx You think the Dept. bought this type Ammo? REMINGTON .223 62 GR (MATCH) HOLLOW POINT AMMUNITION I have no clue who paid for the stuff, but it sure sounds like the same ammo; the OP's reference to R223R6 matches the description in the recall notice. |
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