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Posted: 2/11/2011 7:19:36 AM EDT
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Hi all.
I have two completed lowers (Roggio –– Yeah I know). Mine had problems with the buffer tubes but I was able to find two collapsible stocks that would fit and work. I want to build these up with one 20" with a removable carry handle and another with a mid-length system on a 16" barrel. My question is this: I read some post where someone said they would not buy an AR15 from someone who built it unless they knew the person well and knew of their abilities. What could go wrong? -headspacing? -???? I was prompted to build my own (which I would really like to do because I built the lowers) but I don't want to if there is something I can screw up. Thanks, New |
| I am thinking that the post you read was in response to a question I posted. The rifle was on gunbroker. The question was more that of a parts/abilities stanpoint when buying without inspection. I chose not to buy it and was able to save quite a bit buying a complete upper and a known lower, parts kit etc. The barrel was no name, the bcg was DPMS and the parts kit was unknown in the referenced gun. |
| That was me who made that statement. In answer to your question, there are all kinds of things that can go wrong. Just go over to the Troubleshooting section and read all the problems folks are having. Not all of the problems are caused from poor assembly. But you can see what can go wrong. Unless I was getting a incredible price, I would not risk it. To many companies are making quality rifles, why gamble on on? |
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I feel ya.....the only reason for me would be to gain the extra knowledge of the workings and the pride of shooting something that I built myself. I guess the same reason that I would prefer to catch a trout on a fly that I tied myself as opposed to a store bought fly.
I've been teetering, especially with all of the great deals on competed uppers right now. Building it myself would also give me and my son something to do together. I've seen some videos from Brownell's that shows how to build the upper and provided I followed that and used quality parts, is there a real risk of ending up with a malfunctioning firearm? I guess the only thing that gave me pause from the videos was the headspacing part, everything else seemed manageable––-including ensuring that I don't crimp the gas tube. Thanks, New |
| It's all about the parts used IMO. I've only bought 1 complete AR and ave built the rest. My most expensive one(Recce) was built piece by piece but with top notch parts so I'm confident that I could get a decent amount of money out of it should I ever need to sell it. |
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Quoted:
I'd be worried about someone assembling an upper piece by piece. It's pretty hard to screw up putting together a lower. However if they don't torque the barrel on right you could have dangerous problems. And yet people manage to screw that up. An uneducated buyer (and I don't mean that negatively) would probably be better off purchasing a factory rifle rather than a home-built one. I trust the factory more than Gunbroker seller "M4doorgunner666" who used "sniper-grade parts" and who has been shooting for "over 50 years" including a stint in the Army where he was a SEAL that performed "Black Ops". |
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Quoted:
I like buying complete uppers and doing everything else myself. I only buy factory-made uppers. If I want a jackleg job I can do that all by myself.  ^^^^^ this ^^^^^ Factory built uppers are the way to go. A lower is more or less an assembly held together by push and roll pins. Uppers require some degree of knowledge and some specialized tools. It's not difficult, but uppers, to a greater degree than lowers, need to be built with some degree of care. Barrels should be torqued to 30ft lb minimum. This means you actually need a torque wrench, vise block, etc. The upper is the part of the rifle that is the easiest to Bubba-up, but it's also the most important. The knock on the Frankenguns is the ABC upper with the DEF barrel and the XYZ bolt carrier that was put together with a pipe wrench and JB weld by Bubba's gun and Appliance Superstore. What do you really have? I'd have no problem with a factory ABC upper on a XYZ lower though. |
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I'd never buy a home brewed AR unless there was a real good reason. And I know it would be hard to get a great price for my builds.
I also wouldn't be likely to buy a complete factory AR but do buy factory uppers. I could build an upper but haven't since it's easy to find what you want already put together and at a good price. |
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Ill throw my hat into the ring...
I refuse, outright refuse, to buy factory rifles... whether we are talking about a complete Daniel Defense, KAC, Colt... or a BCM or Spikes upper. This isn't because of any worry of quality control or assembly (mostly.. as i do realize any factory could put out a lemon) but because of cost vs. value vs. wants. I cannot find any company that will put together a rifle or upper that has the things i want, in the configuration i want, for a reasonable cost vs. what i can build on my own. I have no problem trusting my own builds, and each of them are assembled correctly and function perfectly. I also have a sense of security knowing that I put each part together and know exactly what parts are in my rifle and where they come from. So for me, building is king, and you would have to show me a rifle waaay below retail prices for me to even consider buying factory. And even then, I would probably take it home and disassemble it completely and then rebuild it. With that said, I have no problems recommending a Spikes or similar upper or rifle to someone who is new and doesn't know what they want/need. But rarely do I find myself recommending anything other than a Spikes just because Spikes currently is the best value for the money out there in my opinion... assuming their current config of the month is what you are looking for from the get go. |
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I'd recommend getting complete uppers if you're starting out. Much more simple that way. If I were to buy an upper, I'd probably go with BCM. Their uppers are priced competitively, and I'm a big fan of high quality, 1/7 twist barrels. I like the ability to stabilize 75 grain hornady tap and 77 grain match ammunition. ETA: headspacing shouldn't be an issue unless you mix heavily used barrels/bolts. Otherwise, headspacing is set at the factory and there's no real way for you to screw it up during assembly. |
| I build my own, but also have bought complete rifles and built uppers. I trust myself more than others when doing most anything mechanical. See a lot of crappy work now days. All about the money and very little integrity exists in my opinion. AR's aren't nuclear bombs. Advantage to BIY is pay as you go and only buy the parts you need. I would also buy someone else's homebrewed rifle but only after I shot it unless real cheap. Not much on one that can't be fixed and I have spare parts. Never been to the troubleshooting forum and have never had a problem with an AR. I do use quality parts. Biggest problem I foresee with BIY is maybe canting the FSB a tad. Never done it but could see how it might be done (if free play between barrel alignment pin and upper barrel slot). Just a matter of loosening and tightening to fix. Probably wouldn't even matter on a scoped rifle. Could also possibly launch a detent spring. Have sold homebrewed rifles for more than comparable store bought model mostly because of better accuracy and the right pieces. Helps to know how to use the sights and zero the rifle also. An AR is a pretty dependable very accurate rifle. My first guess would be some of those in the troubleshooting forum probably need a different hobby, but there is such a thing as parts failure. To purchase necessary tools to build would not really be cost effective unless building more than one although you could sell off tools after the build. Necessary tools: Mallet or hammer, roll pin punch set, vise clamp, vise, barrel wrench, (torque wrench/breaker bar/or ratchet), flat blade screwdriver, stock wrench for adjustable stock but hammer and punch would actually work, high temp grease, snap ring pliers, take down pin toools are also nice but not essiential, an assembly guide (on-line is fine) and possibly a TM manual. Take a couple of hours going slow once everything is clean and ready to go. Would make a great father and son project. I will say even after many builds I get a little adrenalin rush when pulling the trigger the first time but have again never had a problem. I do function test everything before I pull the trigger and wear safety gear (eye protection, gloves, and hearing protection). Good luck with decision. |
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The trusted and respected companies that sell complete AR rifles can sometimes have problems with thier rifles too but they also have customer service where they can trouble shoot or have the rifle sent back to them and repaired. A person whom builds a rifle and sells to someone else will most likely not help you out at all. I have built/assembled three of my AR's but I dont think I will ever sell any of them. For a first timer/begginer I would suggest buying a complete manufactured rifle or buying a complete upper and just build the lower yourself. After you get the BRD you will start building them yourself anyways! Quoted:
That was me who made that statement. In answer to your question, there are all kinds of things that can go wrong. Just go over to the Troubleshooting section and read all the problems folks are having. Not all of the problems are caused from poor assembly. But you can see what can go wrong. Unless I was getting a incredible price, I would not risk it. To many companies are making quality rifles, why gamble on on? |
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Quoted:
Ill throw my hat into the ring... I refuse, outright refuse, to buy factory rifles... whether we are talking about a complete Daniel Defense, KAC, Colt... or a BCM or Spikes upper. This isn't because of any worry of quality control or assembly (mostly.. as i do realize any factory could put out a lemon) but because of cost vs. value vs. wants. I cannot find any company that will put together a rifle or upper that has the things i want, in the configuration i want, for a reasonable cost vs. what i can build on my own. I have no problem trusting my own builds, and each of them are assembled correctly and function perfectly. I also have a sense of security knowing that I put each part together and know exactly what parts are in my rifle and where they come from. So for me, building is king, and you would have to show me a rifle waaay below retail prices for me to even consider buying factory. And even then, I would probably take it home and disassemble it completely and then rebuild it. With that said, I have no problems recommending a Spikes or similar upper or rifle to someone who is new and doesn't know what they want/need. But rarely do I find myself recommending anything other than a Spikes just because Spikes currently is the best value for the money out there in my opinion... assuming their current config of the month is what you are looking for from the get go. +1 |
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Quoted:
Ill throw my hat into the ring... I refuse, outright refuse, to buy factory rifles... whether we are talking about a complete Daniel Defense, KAC, Colt... or a BCM or Spikes upper. This isn't because of any worry of quality control or assembly (mostly.. as i do realize any factory could put out a lemon) but because of cost vs. value vs. wants. I cannot find any company that will put together a rifle or upper that has the things i want, in the configuration i want, for a reasonable cost vs. what i can build on my own. I have no problem trusting my own builds, and each of them are assembled correctly and function perfectly. I also have a sense of security knowing that I put each part together and know exactly what parts are in my rifle and where they come from. So for me, building is king, and you would have to show me a rifle waaay below retail prices for me to even consider buying factory. And even then, I would probably take it home and disassemble it completely and then rebuild it. With that said, I have no problems recommending a Spikes or similar upper or rifle to someone who is new and doesn't know what they want/need. But rarely do I find myself recommending anything other than a Spikes just because Spikes currently is the best value for the money out there in my opinion... assuming their current config of the month is what you are looking for from the get go. I like the spikes lifetime warrantee. Ya never know when you might need that. When you factor that in it's hard to beat that factories products. As a firearms dealer that is the reason I recommend Spikes. Not to mention of the 23 I sold last year there are 23 happy shooters with zero problems reported. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Ill throw my hat into the ring... I refuse, outright refuse, to buy factory rifles... whether we are talking about a complete Daniel Defense, KAC, Colt... or a BCM or Spikes upper. This isn't because of any worry of quality control or assembly (mostly.. as i do realize any factory could put out a lemon) but because of cost vs. value vs. wants. I cannot find any company that will put together a rifle or upper that has the things i want, in the configuration i want, for a reasonable cost vs. what i can build on my own. I have no problem trusting my own builds, and each of them are assembled correctly and function perfectly. I also have a sense of security knowing that I put each part together and know exactly what parts are in my rifle and where they come from. So for me, building is king, and you would have to show me a rifle waaay below retail prices for me to even consider buying factory. And even then, I would probably take it home and disassemble it completely and then rebuild it. With that said, I have no problems recommending a Spikes or similar upper or rifle to someone who is new and doesn't know what they want/need. But rarely do I find myself recommending anything other than a Spikes just because Spikes currently is the best value for the money out there in my opinion... assuming their current config of the month is what you are looking for from the get go. I like the spikes lifetime warrantee. Ya never know when you might need that. When you factor that in it's hard to beat that factories products. As a firearms dealer that is the reason I recommend Spikes. Not to mention of the 23 I sold last year there are 23 happy shooters with zero problems reported. Lifetime warranty is all well and good, but I buy parts from companies that Im certain would stand behind them. And in all honesty... if i ever did have a problem... it would probably be something simple i could fix myself.... its not rocket science and in reality, there isn't much that can go wrong with a rifle that wouldn't be fixed with proper maintenance anyways. |
| I bought my first AR, a Bushmaster about 8 years ago. Since then I've built 4 in different configurations. I sold the Bushy to my brother. My builds have never failed me. I just had them out yesterday and they ate everything I fed them. As long as you know what you're doing and have the tools to do it you can put together an AR and know it was done correctly. |
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