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Posted: 2/7/2011 7:57:49 PM EDT
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what size groups can I expect out of this bbl (5 shot 100 yard)
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-20-SAM-R-SS410-Barrel-with-Rifle-Length-Gas-p/bcm-ss410-samr%20brl%202%20ibb.htm |
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what size groups can I expect out of this bbl (5 shot 100 yard) http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-20-SAM-R-SS410-Barrel-with-Rifle-Length-Gas-p/bcm-ss410-samr%20brl%202%20ibb.htm I have the 18" SS 410 and it shoots better than I do. Consistantly under an inch, and I have shot some 1/2" 5 shot groups with it using 55 vmax and 75 bthp(hornady). Heres one with 55 vmax. 
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That depends more on the shooter's skill and the ammunition used than which of those barrels are being used. Not to be an ass, but if you're asking this question then you most likely won't notice a difference. Yes indeed you are being an ass. I have spent my fare share of time on the range. I am not an "expert" but I can indeed tell a difference in accuracy from rifle to rifle. This is why I asked…. |
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Quoted: Quoted: That depends more on the shooter's skill and the ammunition used than which of those barrels are being used. Not to be an ass, but if you're asking this question then you most likely won't notice a difference. Yes indeed you are being an ass. I have spent my fare share of time on the range. I am not an "expert" but I can indeed tell a difference in accuracy from rifle to rifle. This is why I asked…. Then you should know that no one can tell you what sort of group size to expect for any particular barrel. There are too many variables to consider. The best you can hope for is someone posting what their barrel gets with their ammunition from their shoulder. But that's only a sample size of one and still doesn't really help. |
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With both a stock colt government profile 20'' A2 and my super fancy awesome 20'' A2 white oak service rifle, I get 1.5'' groups from the bench with prvi partizan 75 grain match ammo. I imagine I could do better if I had a scope. Bravo company barrels are quite similar, I'd expect the same accuracy. |
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That depends more on the shooter's skill and the ammunition used than which of those barrels are being used. Not to be an ass, but if you're asking this question then you most likely won't notice a difference. Yes indeed you are being an ass. I have spent my fare share of time on the range. I am not an "expert" but I can indeed tell a difference in accuracy from rifle to rifle. This is why I asked…. Then you should know that no one can tell you what sort of group size to expect for any particular barrel. There are too many variables to consider. The best you can hope for is someone posting what their barrel gets with their ammunition from their shoulder. But that's only a sample size of one and still doesn't really help. If 5 people get sub MOA with a certain bbl than there is a good chance I can expect the same. I would rather spend my money on a brand of bbl that 5 out of six people have good experience with than a bbl where 2 out of 6 folks have a good experience. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That depends more on the shooter's skill and the ammunition used than which of those barrels are being used. Not to be an ass, but if you're asking this question then you most likely won't notice a difference. Yes indeed you are being an ass. I have spent my fare share of time on the range. I am not an "expert" but I can indeed tell a difference in accuracy from rifle to rifle. This is why I asked…. Then you should know that no one can tell you what sort of group size to expect for any particular barrel. There are too many variables to consider. The best you can hope for is someone posting what their barrel gets with their ammunition from their shoulder. But that's only a sample size of one and still doesn't really help. If 5 people get sub MOA with a certain bbl than there is a good chance I can expect the same. I would rather spend my money on a brand of bbl that 5 out of six people have good experience with than a bbl where 2 out of 6 folks have a good experience. All of those barrels should be capable of sub-MOA 5 shot groups with the right ammo and shooter. |
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That depends more on the shooter's skill and the ammunition used than which of those barrels are being used. Not to be an ass, but if you're asking this question then you most likely won't notice a difference. Yes indeed you are being an ass. I have spent my fare share of time on the range. I am not an "expert" but I can indeed tell a difference in accuracy from rifle to rifle. This is why I asked…. Then you should know that no one can tell you what sort of group size to expect for any particular barrel. There are too many variables to consider. The best you can hope for is someone posting what their barrel gets with their ammunition from their shoulder. But that's only a sample size of one and still doesn't really help. If 5 people get sub MOA with a certain bbl than there is a good chance I can expect the same. I would rather spend my money on a brand of bbl that 5 out of six people have good experience with than a bbl where 2 out of 6 folks have a good experience. All of those barrels should be capable of sub-MOA 5 shot groups with the right ammo and shooter. Awesome, do you have any pics of your sub-MOA 5 shot groups with one of those (or some other) that you care to share? Thanks for the in-put. Edit to add: what ammo did you use? was it a hand load? will you share the specs? |
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That depends more on the shooter's skill and the ammunition used than which of those barrels are being used. Not to be an ass, but if you're asking this question then you most likely won't notice a difference. Wow, looks like we have another Top Shot know it all. Your premise "not to be an ass" is invalid, because you did intend to be such. This is a technical board, if you don't like the question or think its well below your technical level, save us all the grief and move on without a reply. |
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The problem with handloaded ammo is its....well....handloads. This means its more or less customizd for one barrel, not a barrel from one manufacturer. What might shoot very well in mine might only be so so in yours. Now theres some "proof" type loads that are generally well performing in every rifle but the best course of action is to start loading and testing.
Most people would agree Varget is a very solid powder and a 75/77 grain bullet are very well performing. I'm curious, whats the best group you've ever shot? Frankly I'm thinking the big limiter here isnt going to be the barrel or ammunition. |
Here's a few groups from my RRA NM A2 which uses a Wilson stainless 20" barrel––I believe oly also uses Wilson barrels:  These were 69 grain hand loads. I'd like to add that 5 shots is not a large enough statistical sample for measuring precision. 10-shot groups are a much more accurate measure of a barrel's (and ammo's and shooter's) precision. For years I chased my zero using 5-shot groups every range trip and couldn't figure out why some groups would favor one side of the bullseye while others would favor another. Then some groups would be nearly twice as big for no obvious reason. I later discovered it was because 5 shots were simply not enough for a useful group size measurement. All of these issued disappeared when I started using 10 shot groups to zero and measure precision for a load/barrel. 10-shot groups are what separate the high end precision barrels from the rest. Almost any barrel will give sub-MOA 5-shot groups with enough tries, but a quality precision barrel capable of sub-MOA 10-shot groups will be much more consistent. If I were choosing between the three barrels you posted, then I would go with the BCM based purely on reputation. |
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Quoted: Quoted: That depends more on the shooter's skill and the ammunition used than which of those barrels are being used. Not to be an ass, but if you're asking this question then you most likely won't notice a difference. Wow, looks like we have another Top Shot know it all. Your premise "not to be an ass" is invalid, because you did intend to be such. This is a technical board, if you don't like the question or think its well below your technical level, save us all the grief and move on without a reply. If you don't want the truth then don't ask the question. Especially when the question is fundamentally flawed and impossible to answer. It's like asking how far you'd be able to hit a golf ball with xxx brand driver. The answer depends on a hell of a lot more than just which driver you're using. Someone asking such a question is probably fairly new to golf and needs to work on most of those other factors before stressing over which driver to get. And what exactly did you contribute to this thread? |
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If you don't want the truth then don't ask the question. Especially when the question is fundamentally flawed and impossible to answer. It's like asking how far you'd be able to hit a golf ball with xxx brand driver. The answer depends on a hell of a lot more than just which driver you're using. Someone asking such a question is probably fairly new to golf and needs to work on most of those other factors before stressing over which driver to get. And what exactly did you contribute to this thread? [/quote] The question was not fundamentally flawed or impossible to answer. You say, "The best you can hope for is someone posting what their barrel gets with their ammunition from their shoulder. But that's only a sample size of one and still doesn't really help." If 3 people post that it is a sample of 3.... Well shoulders don't matter that much, it is not that tall of an order to sandbag a gun down and print tiny groups at a hundred yards. So that gets us to loads and the bbl. It seems to me at least one person posted a pic of a nice group talked about the kind of ammo and the brand bbl. Why would you chastise someone for making a discussion happen on a discussion forum? Is it so you can tell us all how good and experienced you are? Well know one cares. What we do care about is you using your experience and knowledge in a constructive way. If you want to just be an ass please find your way to a different post. If you want to be an adult and discuss with the other adults than please share your knowledge in a mature respectful way. I think I have my hart set on a WOA 1/8 DMR bbl, but that BCM version of the same looks pretty sexy. How much does a 5.56 NATO chamber matter compared to the wylde chamber? My thought on the wylde chamber is tighter is better... |
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The question was not fundamentally flawed or impossible to answer. You say, "The best you can hope for is someone posting what their barrel gets with their ammunition from their shoulder. But that's only a sample size of one and still doesn't really help." Well shoulders don't matter that much, it is not that tall of an order to sandbag a gun down and print tiny groups at a hundred yards. So that gets us to loads and the bbl. It seems to me at least one person posted a pic of a nice group talked about the kind of ammo and the brand bbl. Why would you chastise someone for making a discussion happen on a discussion forum? Is it so you can tell us all how good and experienced you are? Well know one cares. What we do care about is you using your experience and knowledge in a constructive way. If you want to just be an ass please find your way to a different post. If you want to be an adult and discuss with the other adults than please share your knowledge in a mature respectful way. I think I have my hart set on a WOA 1/8 DMR bbl, but that BCM version of the same looks pretty sexy. How much does a 5.56 NATO chamber matter compared to the wylde chamber? My thought on the wylde chamber is tighter is better... PLEASE post some pictures of your group size when you get it. I'm curious. Get the Wylde. My opinion. Lets you shoot either .223 or 5.56 without any concerns. |
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Okay –– 10 shot groups (I have read the threads). Now a question: how long a pause between shots? I do 5 shots. I think anything more than 3 is really the goal, although statistically you need 7 for highest confidence. I try for 1 minute, but shit its a semi auto. Its usually more around 15 seconds. 
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Quoted: Here's a few groups from my RRA NM A2 which uses a Wilson stainless 20" barrel––I believe oly also uses Wilson barrels: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/topgunpilot20/Guns/best_group_web.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/topgunpilot20/Guns/1inch100yardgroup.jpg These were 69 grain hand loads. I'd like to add that 5 shots is not a large enough statistical sample for measuring precision. 10-shot groups are a much more accurate measure of a barrel's (and ammo's and shooter's) precision. For years I chased my zero using 5-shot groups every range trip and couldn't figure out why some groups would favor one side of the bullseye while others would favor another. Then some groups would be nearly twice as big for no obvious reason. I later discovered it was because 5 shots were simply not enough for a useful group size measurement. All of these issued disappeared when I started using 10 shot groups to zero and measure precision for a load/barrel. 10-shot groups are what separate the high end precision barrels from the rest. Almost any barrel will give sub-MOA 5-shot groups with enough tries, but a quality precision barrel capable of sub-MOA 10-shot groups will be much more consistent. If I were choosing between the three barrels you posted, then I would go with the BCM based purely on reputation. Thank you! But I think I'm the only one listening right now..... 
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Quoted: The question was not fundamentally flawed or impossible to answer. Yes it is. This is a technical board, and the technical answer is that no one can tell you what groups you will get. What is so difficult about that? But hey, it's your thread and my opinion obviously isn't needed, so I'll leave you to it. However, you may want to rephrase your question to "what groups are you getting with these barrels" for better responses than mine. And try to solicit 10-shot groups if you can. Everyone (myself included) will cherry pick 5-shot groups to post on the internet. However, single 10-shot groups are still very indicative of a barrel's performance since they are much more consistent, so they can't really be cherry picked. Be aware though that the extreme spread measurement of a 10-shot group will usually be more than a cherry picked 5-shot group even with the same barrel and load. |
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this is what size groups you can expect to get from a WOA 1/8 DMR bbl, free floated.
this was 24.5gr AA 2520 with a berger 70gr VLD. I measured this at 0.60". It was fired at 100yds from a sand bag bench rest 
And this was 25.5gr AA2520 with a berger 70gr VLD. this one measure 0.90" also fired at 100yrds with a sand bag bench rest. This is the load I will be going with. 
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