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Posted: 1/2/2011 8:47:21 PM EDT
| This has to do with M-4's and their over-gassing issues. I would like to get feedback on that, I've heard that for M-4's, its best to go to a heavier buffer to slightly slow down cycling rate and enhance reliability. Some guys just install a stiff extraction spring, what are people take on this? |
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Quoted: This has to do with M-4's and their over-gassing issues. I would like to get feedback on that, I've heard that for M-4's, its best to go to a heavier buffer to slightly slow down cycling rate and enhance reliability. Some guys just install a stiff extraction spring, what are people take on this? Some ammo has trouble cycling heavy buffers - ask me how I know.  I wouldn't create problems where there are none. |
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This has to do with M-4's and their over-gassing issues. I would like to get feedback on that, I've heard that for M-4's, its best to go to a heavier buffer to slightly slow down cycling rate and enhance reliability. Some guys just install a stiff extraction spring, what are people take on this? Slow down the cycling rate? Unless you have an FA gun, the cycling rate is 1 round per pull of the trigger. Does it get slower than that? KyARGuy |
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This has to do with M-4's and their over-gassing issues. I would like to get feedback on that, I've heard that for M-4's, its best to go to a heavier buffer to slightly slow down cycling rate and enhance reliability. Some guys just install a stiff extraction spring, what are people take on this? Slow down the cycling rate? Unless you have an FA gun, the cycling rate is 1 round per pull of the trigger. Does it get slower than that? KyARGuy Maybe I didn't make it sound right, what I meant was a heavier buffer to slightly slow down the speed of the bolt/carrier assembly. |
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This has to do with M-4's and their over-gassing issues. I would like to get feedback on that, I've heard that for M-4's, its best to go to a heavier buffer to slightly slow down cycling rate and enhance reliability. Some guys just install a stiff extraction spring, what are people take on this? Some ammo has trouble cycling heavy buffers - ask me how I know.
I wouldn't create problems where there are none. I would like to hear about that |
| I'm a big fan of using 9mm heavy buffers and Wolf extra power extractor springs. But I do run a full-auto M-16 and the heavy buffer helps with rate of fire and bolt bounce with short barrels, also makes it nice since I often switch between 5.56mm and 9mm, so no need to swap out the buffers when changing calibers. If just running a semi-auto 16" barreled carbine then i would just use a H buffer and Wolf spring. |
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If it was a properly built M4 and not some commercial "M4gery," there aren't any issues to correct. Who is the manufacturer? What model?
Typically, the more "budget minded" manufacturers will skimp on things like proper weight ("H") buffer, and proper extractor spring and buffer. Unfortunately, without knowing who made the rifle nor what components are already installed, it's hard to say what may or may not need to be changed. However, as others have already pointed out, depending on your use, and how heavy it is, you could potentially never see any problems whatsoever in the stock configuration, while messing around with the functional parts without having a good idea of what you're doing could adversely effect reliability. ~Augee |
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This has to do with M-4's and their over-gassing issues. I would like to get feedback on that, I've heard that for M-4's, its best to go to a heavier buffer to slightly slow down cycling rate and enhance reliability. Some guys just install a stiff extraction spring, what are people take on this? If you bought it from a quality manufacturer, it should already have the proper buffer and extractor spring in it. Like the other guys said: if it works then don't mess with it. |
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This has to do with M-4's and their over-gassing issues. I would like to get feedback on that, I've heard that for M-4's, its best to go to a heavier buffer to slightly slow down cycling rate and enhance reliability. Some guys just install a stiff extraction spring, what are people take on this? Slow down the cycling rate? Unless you have an FA gun, the cycling rate is 1 round per pull of the trigger. Does it get slower than that? KyARGuy No that would be called the fire rate not the cycle rate, you can have a semi auto AR with too fast of a cycle rate. Example: magazine spring cannot keep up with the cycle rate resulting in missfeed. OP like most said, just go out and shoot it, if you have any issues then try addressing the problem. |
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I had never had any problems with over gassing...not sure really what that is. Feeding, extracting until yesterday i gave my freind that went out with me
2 box's of Wolf ammo that was given to me at a gun shop, freebie buying some parts.His gun did not like that Wolf and was a jam o matic.He had shot just over 500 rounds of Federal XM193 without issue over the preceeding few months and some of my reloads too.We are statying away from cheap shitty ammo form now on. His AR is a Spikes lower, standard FCG, standard collaspable stock, buffer, spring.BCM 16 inch upper.I have a RRA Entry Tactical, all as is came standard buffer, my SBR(LMT) runs a Spike ST2T and never has troubles, XM193,PMC,Wally Fed Bulk Box,Hornady,all kinds of my reloads.I have never shot Wolf myself and don't plan too.I also have a RRA Predator Pursuit 20 inch but its a bench gun and all i shoot out of it is reloads,never a malfunction either.My guess if ya have malfunctions its shitty ammo or some bad parts in your gun. |
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This has to do with M-4's and their over-gassing issues. I would like to get feedback on that, I've heard that for M-4's, its best to go to a heavier buffer to slightly slow down cycling rate and enhance reliability. Some guys just install a stiff extraction spring, what are people take on this? Slow down the cycling rate? Unless you have an FA gun, the cycling rate is 1 round per pull of the trigger. Does it get slower than that? KyARGuy You can only pull the trigger as quickly as the gun cycles. When you look at competition shooters, you can see that some of them can and do outrun their guns. Somewhat related article |
| I'm not having any issues with my M-4's and they do come from a variety of manufacturers. I've read enough articles stating that the M-4 tend to be over-gassed due to the nature of its short gas tube design and quite of few of the articles state that most of the time you will not see issues, it isn't until perhaps you run enough rounds through the rifle that the extractor spring might start to weaken and then the M-4's over-gassing issue will begin to manifest itself. I'm just thinking maybe I would like to nip this in the bud and make sure I keep my rifles reliable in case the SHTF and I need them not just for me, but for family members. Here's one of the many interesting links on what I've read: http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/16001.html |
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Quoted: I'm not having any issues with my M-4's and they do come from a variety of manufacturers. I've read enough articles stating that the M-4 tend to be over-gassed due to the nature of its short gas tube design and quite of few of the articles state that most of the time you will not see issues, it isn't until perhaps you run enough rounds through the rifle that the extractor spring might start to weaken and then the M-4's over-gassing issue will begin to manifest itself. I'm just thinking maybe I would like to nip this in the bud and make sure I keep my rifles reliable in case the SHTF and I need them not just for me, but for family members. Here's one of the many interesting links on what I've read: http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/16001.html Springs and extractors and extractor inserts are wear items. Just like bolts and gas rings. Im not telling you what to do, but Ive seen more guns that ran turned into guns that dont run just by screwing around trying to make them better. Not just ARs but all types of semi-autos. From SKS to AK47s, 1911s and ARs. |
| Heavy buffers, stiff springs, muzzle devices that help cycling, yada yada yada.... It is all bandaid fixes for mainly gas port sizing problems. If you have no problems when you shoot your M4 then leave it be. I run a standard buffer and spring in EVERY one of my carbines from 10.5" to 16" barrels with zero problems. The one time I did have an issue everyone told me to get a heavy buffer, a full auto bolt carrier, and a stiffer spring to fix it. I knocked off the front sight base and re-drilled the gas port instead and never had an issue since. |
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Heavy buffers, stiff springs, muzzle devices that help cycling, yada yada yada.... It is all bandaid fixes for mainly gas port sizing problems. If you have no problems when you shoot your M4 then leave it be. I run a standard buffer and spring in EVERY one of my carbines from 10.5" to 16" barrels with zero problems. The one time I did have an issue everyone told me to get a heavy buffer, a full auto bolt carrier, and a stiffer spring to fix it. I knocked off the front sight base and re-drilled the gas port instead and never had an issue since. It's all a system that works together. The gas port size, buffer weight, springs, etc. A quality manufacturer will have all these things done correctly. Hogging out a gas port is not the solution to a problem unless the gas port is under sized for spec. |
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Heavy buffers, stiff springs, muzzle devices that help cycling, yada yada yada.... It is all bandaid fixes for mainly gas port sizing problems. If you have no problems when you shoot your M4 then leave it be. I run a standard buffer and spring in EVERY one of my carbines from 10.5" to 16" barrels with zero problems. The one time I did have an issue everyone told me to get a heavy buffer, a full auto bolt carrier, and a stiffer spring to fix it. I knocked off the front sight base and re-drilled the gas port instead and never had an issue since. It's all a system that works together. The gas port size, buffer weight, springs, etc. A quality manufacturer will have all these things done correctly. Hogging out a gas port is not the solution to a problem unless the gas port is under sized for spec. We all know it is a system however a regular weight buffer and regular spring will operate a carbine perfectly fine if the gas port is correct. Most carbine reliability issues that people think need heavy buffers are due to this, not the buffer. The system is designed to work with a standard weight buffer. |
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Heavy buffers, stiff springs, muzzle devices that help cycling, yada yada yada.... It is all bandaid fixes for mainly gas port sizing problems. If you have no problems when you shoot your M4 then leave it be. I run a standard buffer and spring in EVERY one of my carbines from 10.5" to 16" barrels with zero problems. The one time I did have an issue everyone told me to get a heavy buffer, a full auto bolt carrier, and a stiffer spring to fix it. I knocked off the front sight base and re-drilled the gas port instead and never had an issue since. It's all a system that works together. The gas port size, buffer weight, springs, etc. A quality manufacturer will have all these things done correctly. Hogging out a gas port is not the solution to a problem unless the gas port is under sized for spec. We all know it is a system however a regular weight buffer and regular spring will operate a carbine perfectly fine if the gas port is correct. Most carbine reliability issues that people think need heavy buffers are due to this, not the buffer. The system is designed to work with a standard weight buffer. The Colt M4 ships with an H buffer. The port is the correct size considering their specs determine that size. BCM also ships with H buffer. |
| I use a standard buffer first then address the issue if it crops up.. I only once out of 5 builds have had to drill out the gas hole and I think is was due to loosing gas pressure on a bolt on gas block but only went up to the next drill size from .065 to .068 if I recall and took care of the problem. |
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Heavy buffers, stiff springs, muzzle devices that help cycling, yada yada yada.... It is all bandaid fixes for mainly gas port sizing problems. If you have no problems when you shoot your M4 then leave it be. I run a standard buffer and spring in EVERY one of my carbines from 10.5" to 16" barrels with zero problems. The one time I did have an issue everyone told me to get a heavy buffer, a full auto bolt carrier, and a stiffer spring to fix it. I knocked off the front sight base and re-drilled the gas port instead and never had an issue since. It's all a system that works together. The gas port size, buffer weight, springs, etc. A quality manufacturer will have all these things done correctly. Hogging out a gas port is not the solution to a problem unless the gas port is under sized for spec. We all know it is a system however a regular weight buffer and regular spring will operate a carbine perfectly fine if the gas port is correct. Most carbine reliability issues that people think need heavy buffers are due to this, not the buffer. The system is designed to work with a standard weight buffer. The Colt M4 ships with an H buffer. The port is the correct size considering their specs determine that size. BCM also ships with H buffer. It may do so, but it is not necessary to function the weapon. I have standard buffers in all of mine with zero issues in any of them. All well used too. Nothing wrong with H buffers, but it is not the fix all people use it for. Adding one to my XM may have helped, but the gas port size was out of spec and simply drilling it to the proper size fixed it properly and not half assed. |
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Heavy buffers, stiff springs, muzzle devices that help cycling, yada yada yada.... It is all bandaid fixes for mainly gas port sizing problems. If you have no problems when you shoot your M4 then leave it be. I run a standard buffer and spring in EVERY one of my carbines from 10.5" to 16" barrels with zero problems. The one time I did have an issue everyone told me to get a heavy buffer, a full auto bolt carrier, and a stiffer spring to fix it. I knocked off the front sight base and re-drilled the gas port instead and never had an issue since. What would you do if the gas port was too big, aside from replacing the barrel? I guess send it to ADCO. I use the heaviest buffer that will still run reliably, mainly to reduce wear on the brass for reloading. They all still function with the standard buffer, but there is defiantly a difference, especially with CAR gas and/or suppressors. |
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Just go shoot it. If it doesn't work, then address the issues. People create too many issues trying to upgrade stuff that would've worked just fine with standard parts. My only caveat to this is that I would ALWAYS upgarde the extractor spring to the proper carbine configuration if it came with a rifle configed extractor. Years ago, I owned a carbine and it came with a rifle configured extractor (and a lose gas key and a tight chamber.... but tha's another story). It would have intermittent extraction problems, which later became a persistent extraction problem. I upgraded the extractor and the problem went away, and stayed away as long as I owned that rifle. |
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This has to do with M-4's and their over-gassing issues. I would like to get feedback on that, I've heard that for M-4's, its best to go to a heavier buffer to slightly slow down cycling rate and enhance reliability. Some guys just install a stiff extraction spring, what are people take on this? Slow down the cycling rate? Unless you have an FA gun, the cycling rate is 1 round per pull of the trigger. Does it get slower than that? KyARGuy
Cyclic rate applies to semiauto too. The carbine doesn't autoload instantaneously. It goes through a process, which happens at a particular rate. If the rate is too fast, it can cause problems. It creates greater stress on the parts of the carbine increasing wear, and it can even cause misfeeds if the magazine can't feed a round fast enough. To the OP. I generally run at least an H buffer, becuase that's what the M4 generally uses. I typically try to use the heaviest buffer my gun runs 100% with, with all ammo I use (I generally use only 5.56 spec ammo). But to be honest, if you're relatively new to AR's, I'd stick with the stock buffer until I either knew the platform better and knew what I wanted to do with it, or I was having problems with the stock parts. |
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Heavy buffers, stiff springs, muzzle devices that help cycling, yada yada yada.... It is all bandaid fixes for mainly gas port sizing problems. If you have no problems when you shoot your M4 then leave it be. I run a standard buffer and spring in EVERY one of my carbines from 10.5" to 16" barrels with zero problems. The one time I did have an issue everyone told me to get a heavy buffer, a full auto bolt carrier, and a stiffer spring to fix it. I knocked off the front sight base and re-drilled the gas port instead and never had an issue since. What would you do if the gas port was too big, aside from replacing the barrel? I guess send it to ADCO. I use the heaviest buffer that will still run reliably, mainly to reduce wear on the brass for reloading. They all still function with the standard buffer, but there is defiantly a difference, especially with CAR gas and/or suppressors. If you read the rest of my posts you will see i never said it is bad to run a heavier buffer... My point is that "add a heavy buffer" just is not the proper fix all that people think it is. As for too big a hole, i personally have never seen this. Only reason to make it smaller is if you made the actual barrel longer. Not a barrel attachment, but the barrel. Even then i think it would only make the rifle cycle harder. |
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Heavy buffers, stiff springs, muzzle devices that help cycling, yada yada yada.... It is all bandaid fixes for mainly gas port sizing problems. If you have no problems when you shoot your M4 then leave it be. I run a standard buffer and spring in EVERY one of my carbines from 10.5" to 16" barrels with zero problems. The one time I did have an issue everyone told me to get a heavy buffer, a full auto bolt carrier, and a stiffer spring to fix it. I knocked off the front sight base and re-drilled the gas port instead and never had an issue since. What would you do if the gas port was too big, aside from replacing the barrel? I guess send it to ADCO. I use the heaviest buffer that will still run reliably, mainly to reduce wear on the brass for reloading. They all still function with the standard buffer, but there is defiantly a difference, especially with CAR gas and/or suppressors. If you read the rest of my posts you will see i never said it is bad to run a heavier buffer... My point is that "add a heavy buffer" just is not the proper fix all that people think it is. Yah..Yah... That part was just my thoughts on the matter. As for too big a hole, i personally have never seen this. Only reason to make it smaller is if you made the actual barrel longer. Not a barrel attachment, but the barrel. Even then i think it would only make the rifle cycle harder. I seem to remember threads on the big ports in the past, I myself have no first hand experience with bad ports big or small. |
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