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Posted: 9/14/2010 11:01:32 AM EDT
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 11:06:22 AM EDT
I think I read somewhere that the mid length gives more velocity. But i'm not sure.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 11:17:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 11:20:19 AM EDT by xjjeeper223]
The Sig 516 is pretty widely regarded as a steaming pile of shit.

ETA: I have no first hand experience with the 516, but I'd still go with the BCM.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 11:20:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Texaspo:
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO


14.5 = M4 Proven gas system

sorry I dont buy into the middy on 14.5 and under

Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:04:24 PM EDT
Carbine length gas system was originally designed for 11.5" barrels... middy systems were designed for 16" barrels... neither were designed for 14.5" barrels, but the M4 (carbine lenght gas system) seems to be working for .mil.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:19:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 1:23:20 PM EDT by AK_Steve]
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By Texaspo:
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO


14.5 = M4 Proven gas system

sorry I dont buy into the middy on 14.5 and under



What is there is to "buy into"? So far it looks like it is just as reliable as a carbine gas (setup properly) with all the benefits of a midlength sight radius. So, I really see no drawbacks at all. It may not be an ideal setup for your only AR, but it is my only one and I love it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:20:48 PM EDT
Sorry, but there's no way you can put the new SIG on par with BCM. SIG is the same company that recently complained the ATF placed an undue emphasis on reliability as the reason their P250 was dropped from contract consideration. If these are truly your final two choices, go with the 14.5 BCM middy and thank us all later.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:43:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By Texaspo:
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO


14.5 = M4 Proven gas system

sorry I dont buy into the middy on 14.5 and under





What is there is to "buy into"? So far it looks like it is just as reliable as a carbine gas (setup properly) with all the benefits of a midlength sight radius. So, I really see no drawbacks at all. It may not be an ideal setup for your only AR, but it is my only one and I love it.


Gas system only effects sight radius if you you using a traditional FSP/gas block... if you are using a low-pro gas block, sight radius is all about the rail length.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 2:03:50 PM EDT
I wouldn't touch the Sig Rifle and I love their semi auto handguns. Not the new polymere stuff, but their older stuff. My P228 is one of my favorite 9mm. I have 2 M4 Carbines and a 20" Colt rifle. I did some reading and for a M4 type of rifle I have heard the mid length is much smoother and the longer eye relief is definetly going to aid in accuracy. I don't know on shorter barrels if this smoothness is the same. I would think it would be for the same principals, but I don't know what length is to short for a middy. The people on this forum know their stuff and they wont stear you wrong. I have been waiting on Spikes to build my middy that I ordered quite awhile ago. They had some problems getting their new BAR rails in stock. They are now GTG as I got the email today. But I decided to wait on their new SAR rail, it looks like it is going to sweeeeeeet. Good luck to you and your new rifle.

NCH
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 2:09:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 2:19:21 PM EDT by AK_Steve]
Originally Posted By jdhill:
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By Texaspo:
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO


14.5 = M4 Proven gas system

sorry I dont buy into the middy on 14.5 and under





What is there is to "buy into"? So far it looks like it is just as reliable as a carbine gas (setup properly) with all the benefits of a midlength sight radius. So, I really see no drawbacks at all. It may not be an ideal setup for your only AR, but it is my only one and I love it.


Gas system only effects sight radius if you you using a traditional FSP/gas block... if you are using a low-pro gas block, sight radius is all about the rail length.


I should have said midlength gas system instead. Since the FSB=gas block, the "sight radius" also affects the recoil (reduces it) that's what I meant. That is the main reason for going midlength.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 2:13:31 PM EDT
The 14.5" middy is sweet. I didn't know what all the hype was about till recently. I still love my 14.5 carbine, other middies and rifles- but the 14.5" middy is impressive.
It seems as reliable as any system and needs to be compared before anyone writes it off. What about it is there not to like?

Read about the EAG (Pat Rogers) rifles and see how many converts there are. I wouldn't advise anyone to sell what they have to get one, but anyone buying a new
rifle should shoot one before making up their mind. The recoil is mild on any 5.56 to me, but the 14.5 middy is milder.

It's your coin, and your decision. Try one. Middy rifles did not get so popular by accident, it really is an improvement on what already is a good system.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 2:15:16 PM EDT
Here is some extra reading for you

Carbine vs middy
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 3:18:22 PM EDT
Get the carbine.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 3:21:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By Texaspo:
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO


14.5 = M4 Proven gas system

sorry I dont buy into the middy on 14.5 and under



What is there is to "buy into"? So far it looks like it is just as reliable as a carbine gas (setup properly) with all the benefits of a midlength sight radius. So, I really see no drawbacks at all. It may not be an ideal setup for your only AR, but it is my only one and I love it.


LOOKS?? LOL

Link Posted: 9/14/2010 3:22:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 3:23:13 PM EDT by AK_Steve]
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By Texaspo:
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO


14.5 = M4 Proven gas system

sorry I dont buy into the middy on 14.5 and under



What is there is to "buy into"? So far it looks like it is just as reliable as a carbine gas (setup properly) with all the benefits of a midlength sight radius. So, I really see no drawbacks at all. It may not be an ideal setup for your only AR, but it is my only one and I love it.


LOOKS?? LOL



I like the looks, but still, function over form is what they say.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 3:27:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By Texaspo:
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO


14.5 = M4 Proven gas system

sorry I dont buy into the middy on 14.5 and under



What is there is to "buy into"? So far it looks like it is just as reliable as a carbine gas (setup properly) with all the benefits of a midlength sight radius. So, I really see no drawbacks at all. It may not be an ideal setup for your only AR, but it is my only one and I love it.


LOOKS?? LOL



I like the looks, but still, function over form is what they say.


I agree the middy LOOKS like its doing very well
I just trust my ass with M4 gas system

Link Posted: 9/14/2010 3:29:37 PM EDT
Do you have a Carbine already? I am a big fan of the Middy. I have several Carbines and I just prefer to shoot the Middy. I'd go for that if this is a first gun or you already have a Carbine.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 3:40:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 3:43:41 PM EDT by AK_Steve]
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By Texaspo:
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO


14.5 = M4 Proven gas system

sorry I dont buy into the middy on 14.5 and under



What is there is to "buy into"? So far it looks like it is just as reliable as a carbine gas (setup properly) with all the benefits of a midlength sight radius. So, I really see no drawbacks at all. It may not be an ideal setup for your only AR, but it is my only one and I love it.


LOOKS?? LOL



I like the looks, but still, function over form is what they say.


I agree the middy LOOKS like its doing very well
I just trust my ass with M4 gas system



I see what you mean now. Yea, I wouldn't go as far as to say that it is a proven system just yet. But it's almost there. From what I can tell the 14.5 midlength has been around for some time but it is just now gaining popularity as people become more informed. Looks like I got into ARs at the right time! But I had to shoot the 14.5 middy first before I had confidence in it. I shot a couple hundred rounds of brown bear .223 running a ST-T2 buffer and it ran like clockwork. I know that's not much but that's not even pushing the 14.5 midlength system all the way. If I was going to war, I would probably run a carbine buffer. But since in a HD/SHTF situation I will more than likely be shooting hot .223 or 5.56, I trust it 100% with that ammunition. To seal the deal I think I am going to run 1000 rds through it without cleaning, lube at 500 rds. Then I will have no doubt.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 3:58:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Texaspo:
Ok I just wanted to get everyones opinion on Mid length systems example Recce-14 verses the standard Carbine style gas systems. I am considering my next AR purchase and haven't decided on one yet. I am considering the BCM Recce-14, I thought I might go with the 14.5 barrel this time. I also have a line on a new SIgArms 516 that I can get at an incredible price, pretty much about the same as the BCM. It is a toss up right now. I will use this one as a part time patrol rifle, and paper puncher. I am just kinda stupid when it comes to the difference between the gas systems. Oh and I know the new Sig is a piston rifle, I'm just curious about the differences in the lengths of the gas systems on the DI rifles. I do not have any intentions of suppressing this rifle, and I know that plays into the length of the gas system as well. Does it really matter which one I go with if I stay with a DI rifle? Or should I just throw caution to the wind and pick up the Sig 516. I know pistols pretty well, but other than the basics of AR maint and shooting etc etc. you guys here are the experts. Thanks TXPO


Go with midlength. I can't really think of any advantage with going with a carbine length rail unless you plan on running undergassed ammo. With midlength you won't need as large of a gas port and generally the recoil impulse will be softer.
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