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Posted: 9/4/2010 6:54:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 6:56:20 PM EDT by Fooboy]
LMT 16" carbine with LMT BUIS and standard FSB
12 rounds of 1980's era LC M193
Approx 3-4 seconds between shots, shooting off a bench with a carpeted wood block as a rest

I have my LMT BUIS set for IBZ so I should be ~ 2 inches high @ 100. Didn't have much time for rifles on last range trip but shot this and rang (and missed ) the 300 yard gong before I had to head out.

So ... how do I rank around here ? I know near the back of the pack but HOW far in the back am I ...

BTW - It's a 5 inch group from the two farthest shots. Posting of your weekend targets is welcome!

––-


Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:56:24 PM EDT
I'd be happy with that, I shoot a little tighter than that with my ACOG. But with my irons I'm happy with that.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:58:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ggee87:
I'd be happy with that, I shoot a little tighter than that with my ACOG. But with my irons I'm happy with that.


I have a lot of trouble deciding whether I want to focus on the target or the front sight blade. I know it's supposed to be front sight but at 100 y the target isn't discernible... (advice welcome).
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:02:25 PM EDT
Nothing at all wrong with that just using irons.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:06:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 7:07:14 PM EDT by SuperiorBarrels]
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:21:24 PM EDT
Thats roughly what my groups look like with irons at 100 yds. Occassionally better, occassionally worse.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:30:00 PM EDT
Thats good considering, when I shoot at 100 yards, I can only tell i'm aiming at my target, but not exactly where on the target.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:30:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 7:34:47 PM EDT by huudoo]
looks good keep shooting

100 yards A2 Bushy ,the one on the right was the final shoots after adjustment



50 yards A2 Bushy





Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:35:24 PM EDT
If you go through an Appleseed Shoot, those groups will tighten up some more. Iron sights are the meat and potatoes at Appleseed.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:40:02 PM EDT
Because of my horrid eyesight, I only use irons at 50, for trying to shoot tight groups.

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:47:25 PM EDT
When shooting irons, a 6" aiming black on a cream-colored background will give you the best results.

Just remember, shorter sight radius with fatter front sights need larger aiming blacks. No need to get fancy, a can of flat black spray paint and some blank newsprint are fine if the weather is dry. Butcher paper, although brighter, works during rain.

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 8:07:35 PM EDT
5" group with ammo that shoots 2 to 3 moa at best with a carbine, not shabby at all.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 8:32:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
When shooting irons, a 6" aiming black on a cream-colored background will give you the best results.

Just remember, shorter sight radius with fatter front sights need larger aiming blacks. No need to get fancy, a can of flat black spray paint and some blank newsprint are fine if the weather is dry. Butcher paper, although brighter, works during rain.



This is exactly why store-bought paper targets are off-white. The stark white paper we use when printing off targets at home causes glare that can wash out the aiming point.

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 9:18:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SuperiorBarrels:
The carbine has a short sight radius and a huge front post. M193 is not the tightest shooting ammo. You should be proud of your group. You did well.


+1 That's nothin' to be ashamed of... Good shootin'.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:59:41 AM EDT
+1
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
Originally Posted By SuperiorBarrels:
The carbine has a short sight radius and a huge front post. M193 is not the tightest shooting ammo. You should be proud of your group. You did well.


+1 That's nothin' to be ashamed of... Good shootin'.


Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:31:35 AM EDT
Fooboy, you should have no trouble with the zombies when they come.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:33:26 AM EDT
real nice group.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:50:26 AM EDT
With irons, I would be EXTREMELY happy with that at 100 yards. You have to realize that if it ever actually came down to it, most of those would be "stop" shots if not kill shots.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:08:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 5:11:07 AM EDT by Fooboy]
Originally Posted By SuperiorBarrels:
The carbine has a short sight radius and a huge front post. M193 is not the tightest shooting ammo. You should be proud of your group. You did well.


Can you elaborate on your "huge front post" comment? Would swapping the front sight post with something else make a noticeable difference?

Originally Posted By jcoffman55:
5" group with ammo that shoots 2 to 3 moa at best with a carbine, not shabby at all.


LC M193 is 2-3 MOA with a carbine? I didn't know that. This isn't a match gun (single stage trigger, etc...) but what ammo would group better - bigger grain?

Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:
Fooboy, you should have no trouble with the zombies when they come.


Ha! I laughed!
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:02:00 AM EDT
It looks like 12 headshots. G/J.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:12:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar15mutt:
real nice group.


Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:33:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
Originally Posted By ggee87:
I'd be happy with that, I shoot a little tighter than that with my ACOG. But with my irons I'm happy with that.


I have a lot of trouble deciding whether I want to focus on the target or the front sight blade. I know it's supposed to be front sight but at 100 y the target isn't discernible... (advice welcome).


OP if you want to test the accuracy of your rifle alone, suggest you use match grade ammo and a good scope to eliminate problem w/ eyes like you just mentioned.
If you want to test accuracy of ammo and rifle combo, it is still a good idea to use a good quality scope to eliminate human error, even if you intend to shoot w/ irons. Then you know for sure that under identical shooting conditions, the bigger group is from the irons/human alone and not the ammo+gun.
One must eliminate all possible variables.
When I was testing ammo for my 22RF, I used an Anschutz 1813 supermatch w/ a 36X Unertl. That way I know exactly what each brand/lot ammo does.
Did the same w/ my custom Remington. The gunmaker guaranteeed at least .5MOA w/ match ammo. I was able to get sub .5MOA w/ a 17X USO scope and BH 168 gr SMK that I absolutely cannot do w/ irons.
My 2 cents
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:37:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
Originally Posted By SuperiorBarrels:
The carbine has a short sight radius and a huge front post. M193 is not the tightest shooting ammo. You should be proud of your group. You did well.


Can you elaborate on your "huge front post" comment? Would swapping the front sight post with something else make a noticeable difference?

This is why I run a KNS .034" square post on my iron sighted carbines. It is sooo much nicer to have a definitive aiming point rather than a 2x4 in front of your eye!

Originally Posted By jcoffman55:
5" group with ammo that shoots 2 to 3 moa at best with a carbine, not shabby at all.


LC M193 is 2-3 MOA with a carbine? I didn't know that. This isn't a match gun (single stage trigger, etc...) but what ammo would group better - bigger grain?

Not so much the heavier grain, though most "match" ammo is 68-77gr. Since you're already sighted in for 55gr, you could pick up some 55gr Hornady or Black hills if you really want to see what you and your rifle can do.

Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:
Fooboy, you should have no trouble with the zombies when they come.


Ha! I laughed!


Link Posted: 9/5/2010 8:25:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 8:27:57 AM EDT by ChromeLined]
Only hits count and those look like if some one was on the receiving end they aint gonna be happy..good shooting..now try that offhand at 50yds and see how the groups differ.For 300 yds thats a great group.I bet off hand at 50 you could do that as well.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:14:56 PM EDT
My best 100yd iron sight groups have been with a K31 and a FR-8 Mauser. Right at 3inches. My average most of the time has been very similar to your group there, 4 to 5inches. My eyes are going downhill fast now that I am in my late 40's. It looks like optics are in my near future, both glass and red-dot.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:46:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 5:48:10 PM EDT by skunk-ape]
good group for iron sights
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:14:23 PM EDT
That's about the best I've done with irons at 100 yards too. Consistently hitting a pie sized plate at 100 yards is more than adequate.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:44:02 PM EDT
You could very likely cut the group size nearly in half by using a black bullseye on white paper and a six o-clock hold with irons. With the target you're using I don't see any way you can have with 1.5 inches of the same aiming point between shots. Try it. You'll notice a huge difference, aim at the bottom of it and concentrate on the front sight.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:14:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
LMT 16" carbine with LMT BUIS and standard FSB
12 rounds of 1980's era LC M193
Approx 3-4 seconds between shots, shooting off a bench with a carpeted wood block as a rest

I have my LMT BUIS set for IBZ so I should be ~ 2 inches high @ 100. Didn't have much time for rifles on last range trip but shot this and rang (and missed ) the 300 yard gong before I had to head out.

So ... how do I rank around here ? I know near the back of the pack but HOW far in the back am I ...

BTW - It's a 5 inch group from the two farthest shots. Posting of your weekend targets is welcome!

––-

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/417/targety.jpg


That M193 military stuff is garbage boy. Try dis here wolf HIGH PERFORMANCE ammo. You'll be shootin' sub-MOA all day long
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:28:58 AM EDT
You can hit a head-sized target at 100 yards.

Nothing wrong with that!
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 2:39:59 PM EDT
Good shootin!
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:22:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 3:22:56 AM EDT by Hawkeye66]
If you are inclined swap the standard front sight post for a NM or slimmer one; because of the short sight radius on the carbine I did this and it greatly improved my sight picture when shooting irons.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:40:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawkeye66:
If you are inclined swap the standard front sight post for a NM or slimmer one; because of the short sight radius on the carbine I did this and it greatly improved my sight picture when shooting irons.


link?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:40:33 PM EDT


This is the best group ive had with irons at 100 yrds. The bottom group I had problems finding a good cheeck weld, but the top I found my "sweet spot." That was shot using a larue 16' stealth.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:55:14 PM EDT
Hell I'd be happy if I could see black at that distance.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:54:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 3:54:36 AM EDT by AzNooB]
Wait, I thought everyone here could shoot sub-MOA 10-shot groups with their ARs using irons and M193.
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