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Posted: 5/12/2010 4:44:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 5:11:58 AM EDT
[#1]
I love midlenghts and have switched out my 14.5/16" ARs to all midlenghts.  But for LE I would buy short barrel carbines.  Our agency bought new Colt Commandos (11.5", full auto) for $780s.  I can't think of a midlegth on the market I would rather have, since there is no barrier to autos and sbrs for LE.
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 5:20:21 AM EDT
[#2]
well, one reason you want a midlength 16" or 14.5" for LE use is effectiveness.



That 11.5" or 10.5" SBR isn't very effective in terms of energy past about 50 yards.
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 5:28:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I love midlenghts and have switched out my 14.5/16" ARs to all midlenghts.  But for LE I would buy short barrel carbines.  Our agency bought new Colt Commandos (11.5", full auto) for $780s.  I can't think of a midlegth on the market I would rather have, since there is no barrier to autos and sbrs for LE.


A 6.8 SBR would be the cat's whiskers then..
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 5:48:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Great read as always brother!



 
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 5:51:36 AM EDT
[#5]
quote of entire article removed




PM sent......






 


 
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 6:29:42 AM EDT
[#6]
I have both, like both. Neither is a problem.  It's funny how the advantage of the sight radius comes in to play when they are all using optics!
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 6:59:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I have both, like both. Neither is a problem.  It's funny how the advantage of the sight radius comes in to play when they are all using optics!


I think you would be surprised how many agencies, especially larger 500+ officer departments, restrict there Patrol Officers to a basic iron sight rifle by either policy or by only issuing fixed carry handle rifles (think M16A1s from DRMO).  Buying 10 weapons for $7,800 is easy to get through City Administrations.  Try pushing through $500K-1,000,000 just to get things up and running.

Most Department's can't afford to equip their officers in typical Arfcom gear, and most officers can't affford (aren't willing to spend $$$ on a Dept rifle), to get a quality RDS and the means to mount it on a 40 year old weapon.  The $100 spent on the mandatory white light/sling is about as much as many officers are willing to spend.

If you work somewhere you can use your own personal weapon, or for a Department that believes in properly equipping its officers, then you're luckier than you realize.

USMC03, great article, lots of good points.

Stay Safe,
Rob

Link Posted: 5/12/2010 7:11:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have both, like both. Neither is a problem.  It's funny how the advantage of the sight radius comes in to play when they are all using optics!


I think you would be surprised how many agencies, especially larger 500+ officer departments, restrict there Patrol Officers to a basic iron sight rifle by either policy or by only issuing fixed carry handle rifles (think M16A1s from DRMO).  Buying 10 weapons for $7,800 is easy to get through City Administrations.  Try pushing through $500K-1,000,000 just to get things up and running.

Most Department's can't afford to equip their officers in typical Arfcom gear, and most officers can't affford (aren't willing to spend $$$ on a Dept rifle), to get a quality RDS and the means to mount it on a 40 year old weapon.  The $100 spent on the mandatory white light/sling is about as much as many officers are willing to spend.

If you work somewhere you can use your own personal weapon, or for a Department that believes in properly equipping its officers, then you're luckier than you realize.

USMC03, great article, lots of good points.

Stay Safe,
Rob



I was referring to the games.
I'm aware about LEO's since they train where I work. Some may say the shorter sight radius is "quicker".  So there's that. Again, I'd be happy with either.
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 8:56:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
well, one reason you want a midlength 16" or 14.5" for LE use is effectiveness.

That 11.5" or 10.5" SBR isn't very effective in terms of energy past about 50 yards.

A. A lot of that depends on the ammo being used and
B. How often are LEO's shooting at BG's past 50yrds? Depends on their OA and I'm sure It does happen on occasion but overall that seems to be pretty rare, especially in urban environments.

I like Middies and have 2 of them in my safe so I'm well aware of their advantages and shooting characteristics (both real and theoretical) but IMO their "superiority" over carbine gas system tends to get blown out of proportion. For instance, my 11.5" SBR with carbine length system is on par with the standard middy in just about ever area listed above simply by cutting the FSB down to use as low-pro gas block and installing a 10" rail and front BUIS. In the end both carbines and middies will get the job done and having a middy will not make a significant difference in your effectiveness. Just my opinion on it.
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 9:44:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 10:28:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
There are a lot of LEO who are stuck with a 16" carbine, and the SBRs aren't an option.  In general, the midlength smooths out the recoil impulse and offers an easier effort with iron sights based on the increased sight radius. How much the difference is felt in the recoil impulse is going to vary depending on the shooter and experience.  


A 16” carbine can easily be setup exactly like my SBR which will allow you to enjoy all of the benefits attributed to a mid-length carbine such as added sight radius and longer forearm for resting on barriers or extending your grip. The only potentially noticeable difference at that point is the recoil and that’s pretty minor difference IMO and can be mitigated too. I run Colt 9mm buffers in my carbines and the recoil between my carbines and middys is very similar.

In the end, I think it’s more about how you setup your weapon and how you use it, not what gas system you are using.


Link Posted: 5/12/2010 10:30:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Our dept just bought 30 Colt 6920's I was in on helping pick out equipment we went with quality slings, extra parts for repair, and my co-worker was able to get the P-Mags we wanted.  But as far as the extras we really wanted it was all shot down.  We wanted to add optics and lights to each but we think next years budget we can outfit some of them with optics at least.  Where we are we can get small things through but if it is huge items or numbers it will be shot down immediately.  So we are happy we got the rifles first and not cheap ones our higher ups said they wanted Colt even though we recommended a few low price high quality AR's.  NO SBR's or Auto's was another stipulation.

You do not even want to know the hassle it was to get pistols in the same year with the digital radio switch over.  We had ancient G21's with some of our officers finally we got all new Glocks (37's the smaller handed officers love them because the G21 was just to big for them) issued last year (09) this year we got rifles.  

I wanted to get mid-lengths personally but the higher ups did not see the need and arguing with them is like arguing with a fence post once they have their mind made up that is it.  Had we got mid-lengths in the brand my co-worker and I wanted we could have got optics or lights I believe.

Link Posted: 5/12/2010 5:58:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Stupid Dumb Question.

The entire Planet knows that the carbine barrel with the M 203 cut is the way to go.  Saves on expenses when the 203 is issued.
You should have known
458
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 6:53:47 PM EDT
[#14]
tag for later
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 7:01:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Local LE I know were issued 6920's or DPMS rifles in 16" carbine.  In real life I don't think it matters.
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 10:18:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Great article. Am I missing something or would a carbine system and longer handguard facilitate all of the above except smoother recoil?
I guess it could be more expensive with rail mount sights and lo pro gas blocks? Not very practical, as a LEA purchase, now that I think about it.
Link Posted: 5/13/2010 1:38:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Your articles are always very informative. Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/13/2010 2:42:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Our dept just bought 30 Colt 6920's I was in on helping pick out equipment we went with quality slings, extra parts for repair, and my co-worker was able to get the P-Mags we wanted.  But as far as the extras we really wanted it was all shot down.  We wanted to add optics and lights to each but we think next years budget we can outfit some of them with optics at least.  Where we are we can get small things through but if it is huge items or numbers it will be shot down immediately.  So we are happy we got the rifles first and not cheap ones our higher ups said they wanted Colt even though we recommended a few low price high quality AR's.  NO SBR's or Auto's was another stipulation.

You do not even want to know the hassle it was to get pistols in the same year with the digital radio switch over.  We had ancient G21's with some of our officers finally we got all new Glocks (37's the smaller handed officers love them because the G21 was just to big for them) issued last year (09) this year we got rifles.  

I wanted to get mid-lengths personally but the higher ups did not see the need and arguing with them is like arguing with a fence post once they have their mind made up that is it.  Had we got mid-lengths in the brand my co-worker and I wanted we could have got optics or lights I believe.



What kind of slings did you order? I bought my Colt AR from a LEO supplier and they gave me very good advice regarding accessories (basic, proven gear vs. flava o' the month mall ninjery crap) but the one nugget of info I forgot to pry out of them was what kind of slings cops like to use. I'm in the market for one and have been curious if there's a LEO "cornerstone" brand that I could track down.
Link Posted: 5/13/2010 2:55:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
well, one reason you want a midlength 16" or 14.5" for LE use is effectiveness.

That 11.5" or 10.5" SBR isn't very effective in terms of energy past about 50 yards.


I've heard with heavier bullets the shorties have a good record
Link Posted: 5/13/2010 3:21:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There are a lot of LEO who are stuck with a 16" carbine, and the SBRs aren't an option.  In general, the midlength smooths out the recoil impulse and offers an easier effort with iron sights based on the increased sight radius. How much the difference is felt in the recoil impulse is going to vary depending on the shooter and experience.  


A 16” carbine can easily be setup exactly like my SBR which will allow you to enjoy all of the benefits attributed to a mid-length carbine such as added sight radius and longer forearm for resting on barriers or extending your grip. The only potentially noticeable difference at that point is the recoil and that’s pretty minor difference IMO and can be mitigated too. I run Colt 9mm buffers in my carbines and the recoil between my carbines and middys is very similar.

In the end, I think it’s more about how you setup your weapon and how you use it, not what gas system you are using.



You completely ignored the point that individual officers generally do not personalize their weapons because they are either not allowed to or will not use their money for it.

Personally I think if a dept won't or can't spend money on optics that they should seriously look into dissapators.
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