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Posted: 4/21/2010 11:20:14 AM EDT
I am absolutely torn between a 16in or a pinned 14.5in barrel for my AR. I would be running a midlength gas system on both. I dunno if I am beating a dead horse here but I really can't decide. I found some chart by MaverickMkii on here a while back that said that reliable fragmentation really falls off for the 14.5 with ammo like ss109. But when you go up to 75gr ammo (which is what i would be using for any kind of defensive scenario anyway) it still reliably fragments up to 125yds out! So that seems like its more than enough right?? Oh, and I'm not so concerned with being stuck with a perm flash hider, my dilemma here is reliable fragmentation. Can you guys please point me in the right direction...... 
16in pros: -higher velocity=more reliable fragmentation 14.5in pros: -shorter/less cumbersome -SO MUCH SEXIER (i dunno why, but IMO it looks so much better without that long barrel hanging out from it) Thanks for any input you guys have! |
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The 14.5" route would be the choice if you wanted to work around corners, through doorways, etc., or if you wanted to save some weight(*).
The 16" route works if you want to have a slightly longer range. Personally, I'd rather have a slightly better time shooting someone close up and personal than miss out on 25 or so meters at the far end. (*) For the slight of build, such as chicks, even though the weight difference between a 16" and 14.5" isn't much, the difference in length will put the COM back, and make a bigger difference than you might expect. |
| My first AR was a 14.5" with perm'd FH. I was sure I needed that so it would be maneuverable for all the CQB I imagined myself doing. A while later I got into competitive shooting with another AR of mine, an 18" SPR-ish rifle. The competition around here has tons of moving in and out of doorways and ports. After actually using that rifle with the 18" barrel (plus another couple inches of brake) I have never felt it has been a hindrance. What makes a difference in the area of maneuverability is your level of training and your proficiency with your rifle, not whether your barrel is 14.5 or 16 inches long. I think there's this big gap in peoples' minds between perception and reality when it comes to having a "maneuverable" barrel length. What the 16" will give you is the ability to customize things down the road without having to deal with cutting and pinning and welding new flash hiders when you want to change things around. |
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It's your decision but I would go 14.5 over the 16. I started out with 16" and I have to agree 100% with this. The 16" often get left in the safe in lieu of 14.5", because they (14.5") just balance better, point better and (generally) weigh less, and cycle more smoothly with carbine length gas system. 14.5" M4 14.5" Noveske N4 Are my favorites In 16", I STRONGLY prefer the Bushmaster superlight to most others, other than 16" Noveske REECE midlength. Don't let permanent hiders deter you either - with a modicum of skill and tools or a bit of money they can be swapped around with relative ease. Go 14.5" |
I routed for a 16" over a 14.5", but that is because I am about to start a 12.5" build. I am using Noveske barrels for both builds. I say no matter which way you go it doesn't matter as long as you get a Noveske, but I am bias. Also, if you get the 14.5" do me a favor and put a 14" DD rail on it and send me some pics. I was about to, and still want a 14.5" barrel with a rail all the way out. haha It may be overkill but this is arfcom.
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What is the main purpose of this weapon? Home protection, trunk gun, ect...? The difference in length between a 14.5" and a 16" is an extra 1" - 1.25" with an A2 flash hider  Don't forget there's that extra ~2 ounces of weight too!  On the very end of the gun where it makes a difference. Holding one and going to another you can feel a noticable difference between the two. |
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What is the main purpose of this weapon? Home protection, trunk gun, ect...? The difference in length between a 14.5" and a 16" is an extra 1" - 1.25" with an A2 flash hider Don't forget there's that extra ~2 ounces of weight too! On the very end of the gun where it makes a difference. Holding one and going to another you can feel a noticable difference between the two. Like I said, practice and proficiency is far more important than obsessing over an extra inch and a half and a couple of ounces. Look at what guys shooting competitively are using, you'll find lots of 18" barrels with brakes, and those guys have no problems getting the gun into and out of places. I can't emphasize it enough, skill is what matters. Anyways, the OP didn't even specify this was for a dedicated CQB gun. |
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What is the main purpose of this weapon? Home protection, trunk gun, ect...? The difference in length between a 14.5" and a 16" is an extra 1" - 1.25" with an A2 flash hider Don't forget there's that extra ~2 ounces of weight too! On the very end of the gun where it makes a difference. Holding one and going to another you can feel a noticable difference between the two. Like I said, practice and proficiency is far more important than obsessing over an extra inch and a half and a couple of ounces. Look at what guys shooting competitively are using, you'll find lots of 18" barrels with brakes, and those guys have no problems getting the gun into and out of places. I can't emphasize it enough, skill is what matters. Anyways, the OP didn't even specify this was for a dedicated CQB gun. The better question would be what does a 16" offer over a 14.5" in a QCB situation. Competive shooters run 18" as a middle of the road compromise for differing ranges. It is not optimal for QCB. As evidenced by naval boarding teams running 10.5 barrels. If building a HD AR I would go as short as practical. In my case 14.5 with a pinned Phantom (Illinois) was my pick. If I could get a stamp it would be 11". It's not a huge difference but its one inch less to worry about clearing a door way with. Now if he is just building a plinker then go with whatever you want. |
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What is the main purpose of this weapon? Home protection, trunk gun, ect...? The difference in length between a 14.5" and a 16" is an extra 1" - 1.25" with an A2 flash hider Don't forget there's that extra ~2 ounces of weight too! On the very end of the gun where it makes a difference. Holding one and going to another you can feel a noticable difference between the two. +1 This. Anyone who doesn't notice the difference, hasn't fooled with these things much. |
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What is the main purpose of this weapon? Home protection, trunk gun, ect...? The difference in length between a 14.5" and a 16" is an extra 1" - 1.25" with an A2 flash hider Don't forget there's that extra ~2 ounces of weight too! On the very end of the gun where it makes a difference. Holding one and going to another you can feel a noticable difference between the two. Like I said, practice and proficiency is far more important than obsessing over an extra inch and a half and a couple of ounces. Look at what guys shooting competitively are using, you'll find lots of 18" barrels with brakes, and those guys have no problems getting the gun into and out of places. I can't emphasize it enough, skill is what matters. Anyways, the OP didn't even specify this was for a dedicated CQB gun. The better question would be what does a 16" offer over a 14.5" in a QCB situation. Competive shooters run 18" as a middle of the road compromise for differing ranges. It is not optimal for QCB. As evidenced by naval boarding teams running 10.5 barrels. If building a HD AR I would go as short as practical. In my case 14.5 with a pinned Phanton (Illinois) was my pick. If I could get a stamp it would be 11". It's not a huge difference but its one inch less to worry about clearing a door way with. Now if he is just building a plinker then go with whatever you want. My point is that for general usage there is no real advantage to the 14.5. If the guy said in his post "I'm looking for a rifle specifically for room entries as part of my job as a HSLD operator" I'd have no problem with the 14.5. I just don't see what real advantage there is in making it harder to do any kind of work that involves taking the muzzle device off (swapping gas blocks, most rails, barrels, etc...) to get a rifle that's 1.5" shorter and ~2 ounces lighter. Do the people who obsess over barrel length and weight all run with short stocks collapsed all the way, and with the absolute lightest accessories? I doubt it. I replaced my 14.5" barrel with a 16" when it was time to change barrels, and I don't miss the 14.5 at all. On the competitive thing, I understand that the 18" is a compromise, but it sure doesn't seem to slow them down, and again the rifle in question here wasn't said to be a CQB-only rifle, so I'd expect there to be compromises for it too. After gaining first hand experience in classes and matches, I'll gladly take a rifle that's easier to work on and really has no perceptible decrease in maneuverability for me over one that's barely shorter and barely lighter but more effort to work on. |
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16" with mid gas system is about as good as it gets in every practical/mechanical standpoint. Take his word for it. exactly.....love my Noveske with the mid gas system 
..I do know how it feels to have trouble deciding on something. I am having trouble deciding on a piece of glass for that baby |
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Wow you guys are awesome! So glad I joined. I think I'm leaning toward the 14.5, for home/self defense and plinking.... Would it be better to use a mid length or carbine gas system on a 14.5? I would be purchasing it from BCM As warpig stated, a carbine gas system is best suited for a 14.5". |
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Wow you guys are awesome! So glad I joined. I think I'm leaning toward the 14.5, for home/self defense and plinking.... Would it be better to use a mid length or carbine gas system on a 14.5? I would be purchasing it from BCM I'd be curious if the people arguing that a carbine gas system is better on a 14.5 have ever used a middy 14.5, and if so if they've ever had a problem they could attribute to the gas system being a middy. Personally, my 14.5" middy is awesome, and I bet that's the opinion you'll get from the overwhelming majority of people who actually have and use them. |
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I recently purchased a 14.5, I haven’t thoroughly tested it yet, but I suspect that the fragmentation difference between this and a 16” will be unnoticeable outside of a lab environment. Personally I have no way of scientifically testing that so I never will.
One thing I immediately did like about the 14.5” M4 barrel, carbine gas system, and H3 buffer is the balance of the rifle. It’s almost perfectly balanced at the magazine well. I really do like the feel of a balanced rifle. |
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Wow you guys are awesome! So glad I joined. I think I'm leaning toward the 14.5, for home/self defense and plinking.... Would it be better to use a mid length or carbine gas system on a 14.5? I would be purchasing it from BCM As warpig stated, a carbine gas system is best suited for a 14.5". I'll suggest that a carbine length gas system is actually best suited for an ~ 11.5" bbl ... IMHO, a mid length gas system is actually a much better match for a 14.5" bbl vs. a carbine length system ... and beyond that, I'll echo this: Quoted:
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16" with mid gas system is about as good as it gets in every practical/mechanical standpoint. This is my opinion. |
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