AR Sponsor
Posted: 1/30/2010 9:07:28 AM EDT
| I visited the gun show this morning and found this deal. It is a new DPMS AR15, Light 16" Barrel, tactical stock, A3 Upper, Removable Carry Handle, and it is the 5.56 Nato. The gun also comes with two 30 round magazines, a hard gun gas, cleaning kit, and a free t-shirt haha. All for 739.00. I think it's a good deal and it's the exact rifle I am looking for. What do you think? |
| Last Labor Day, a DFW dealer took out a full page ad and was selling the DPMS Lite 16 with the A1 carry handle for $699. I bought one, but damn, they never gave me a cool T-shirt. I think this rifle was made during the crazy time right after the election because only one of the feed ramps was mated to the barrel extension. Also the FSB casting had one ear noticeably thicker than the other. The rifle shot fine, but when I cleaned it I noticed the feed ramp problem. I called DPMS and they were great. Fixed it quickly by replacing the barrel under warranty. It's a fun plinking gun. I won't be taking it to war because at my age the only battles I get into are what to watch on the TV. |
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that sounds like a decent price, not great but..fair i guess, give it a good look over, ive had good experience with dpms (just plinking), so has a friend who's owned several, their CS seems to be pretty good from what i hear, since its got the features you want i think you should get it and shoot it
besides you can always swap out uppers, replace parts, get it fixed through dpms if it breaks, or sell the upper for another, its not a liife long committment, and you can never have just one 
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| $685.00 for mine nib from R-GUNS out illinois..if i remember right, but no t-shirt lol. my opinion dpms makes an excellent weapon absolutely no issues with rifle other than the a2 buis falling apart, and panther telling me over the phone that "it happens sometimes, nothin we can do about it". lucky it was a flat top huh? . anyway i replaced it with a troy flipup,an no more problems can't tell the difference between light barrel and a2 heavy 203 cut barrel. like i mentioned before dpms makes superb weapons but has poor customer service |
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... dpms makes superb weapons but has poor customer service Geez, I was real impressed with the helpfulness of their customer service representative on the phone and the quick turn around time from their repair department . Maybe the "poor" service was during the post-election frenzy. I'd rather support a company that's responsive to a problem with their product than one that denies there could ever be a problem with their product. For the next two years and seven months, I don't have to worry about paying for a mechanical problem with my Lite 16. |
| well man im glad you had a good experiance with them its really no big deal to me.its not like i lost any sleep over it its just that i guess wilson combat has spoiled me an its hard for any one else to measure up. especially when you dont even get your part fixed or replaced. but i must say this although i didnt get my sight fixed they were a whole lot friendlier than springfield i own ALOT of springer weapons an once again excellent weapons..... custemer service sucks reeeal bad,worst i ever seen |
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DPMS makes a fine AR despite what some say on this site. I had a Lite 16 and it was a great gun. Sold it for an AP4 which I love. Get it, shoot it, love it!  Despite some people's assurances, I don't trust their internal parts. I don't like their MIM fire control parts & the fact that they don't properly test their bolts. Their barrels are okay, nothing special, but okay. I prefer 1/7 twist chrome lined 4150 CMV or 1/8-1/7 twist LW50 Stainless. And if you are looking for an upper with a 4140 barrel, DSA has the best deal going right now. That said I have 3 DPMS stripped lowers & have no complaints about them. They have a good finish & appear to be in spec. But they will not have any DPMS parts installed. And I'm not trying to put you down OP, I'm stating my opinion. I was like you when I first got into ARs. My first 2 were Bushmasters that I bought before finding ARFCOM. Since then I have learned alot & it has influenced my preferences. So, enjoy your new rifle! And check in often, you have entered a whole new world & there is always something to learn. 
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DPMS makes a fine AR despite what some say on this site. I had a Lite 16 and it was a great gun. Sold it for an AP4 which I love. Get it, shoot it, love it! Yes, and people like Pat Rogers just make up the stories about all the DPMS guns that break in his classes. OP, if you just want to have fun with it and plink at the range, then it's fine. My dad has one that we have used for that purpose. But if it's something you want to TRAIN with or that your life may depend on, a better options is only a couple hundred dollars away. Shoot it a bunch, if it breaks, either replace the parts or buy something else. Jay |
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DPMS makes a fine AR despite what some say on this site. I had a Lite 16 and it was a great gun. Sold it for an AP4 which I love. Get it, shoot it, love it! Yes, and people like Pat Rogers just make up the stories about all the DPMS guns that break in his classes. OP, if you just want to have fun with it and plink at the range, then it's fine. My dad has one that we have used for that purpose. But if it's something you want to TRAIN with or that your life may depend on, a better options is only a couple hundred dollars away. Shoot it a bunch, if it breaks, either replace the parts or buy something else. Jay He very well could. For all we know he has an axe to grind with DPMS. I'm sorry but you may think Pat Rogers walks on water, but I don't. 
*Cue the haters* |
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DPMS makes a fine AR despite what some say on this site. I had a Lite 16 and it was a great gun. Sold it for an AP4 which I love. Get it, shoot it, love it! Yes, and people like Pat Rogers just make up the stories about all the DPMS guns that break in his classes. OP, if you just want to have fun with it and plink at the range, then it's fine. My dad has one that we have used for that purpose. But if it's something you want to TRAIN with or that your life may depend on, a better options is only a couple hundred dollars away. Shoot it a bunch, if it breaks, either replace the parts or buy something else. Jay He very well could. For all we know he has an axe to grind with DPMS. I'm sorry but you may think Pat Rogers walks on water, but I don't.
*Cue the haters* I don't think he walks on water, nor is he always right. But to suggest that a highly regarded person in the firearms industry just flat-out makes shit up to disparage an entire company is just sheer lunacy. I've read your posts on this subject and it's clear you have an emotional investment in the brand you chose. I can understand that. But what you are saying here smacks of downright delusional paranoia. I'm serious, seek help, man. Jay |
| I owned a DPMS before I joined arfcom. I shot it with no problems. After reading the posts here at arfcom I am surprised that it didn't explode or the barrel didn't fall off while I was shooting it. I still shoot it, and that's more fun than reading internet forums. YMMV |
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He very well could. For all we know he has an axe to grind with DPMS. I'm sorry but you may think Pat Rogers walks on water, but I don't.
*Cue the haters* If you have evidence that he fabricates stories of broken weapons, please produce it. I am all ears. No sarcasm intended. (and no, I don't think he walks on water, but I do consider him to be an honest observer) |
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Pat Rogers is hardly alone in his opinion of Dpms. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Everyone has an opinion, but are they based on fact or hearsay. I remember a few years ago everyone thoght highly of Bushmaster, now I constantly see threads bashing them. This seem to me to be a hive mindset that is fueled by keyboard commandos. Pat Rogers is in fact well respected in this community. Has his opinion of DPMS been actually documented, or was is passed on by a guy who knows a guy that went to one of Pat's classes? If I remember correctly EAG has been making use of LWRC rifles which has been highly publicised in SWAT magazine. Did Pat pay retail or even wholesale for those rifles? Most likely not. Im not saying its right and I am not saying it is wrong, it just is. In THIS THREAD which originally was not even about DPMS. On page 6 PursuitSS called DPMS a "Hobby Gun". I went on to advise him that DPMS rifles are being used by me and the rest of the guys I work with in Afghanistan. He raised the BS flag. I then posted pics to prove it. Have not heard from him since then. My opinion has has used DPMS products over the past 6 years, both professionally and personally without issue. BUY IT AND ENJOY IT, kept properly lubed (just like any other AR type) it will serve you well. |
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An AAR of a class with DPMS problems
DPMS: Several in attendance. A disproportionate amount of the stoppages, failures, and issues were with these guns. None possessed sufficient gas key staking. None were staked at the receiver extension nut. One had suspect chamber dims. None had the correct extractor spring assembly. One officer brought a carbine with a 4-position selector, sequenced (from the 9:00) Safe-Auto-Semi-Burst. He fought the gun. DPMS buyers cited low price and immediate availability as primary purchase criteria. When discussing desirable assembly methods and the reasons for them, one owner asked, “why don’t they just do that at the factory?” Overheard from another: “There are four problems with my gun: 1) D. 2) P. 3) M. 4) S.”
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Pat Rogers is hardly alone in his opinion of Dpms. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Everyone has an opinion, but are they based on fact or hearsay. I remember a few years ago everyone thoght highly of Bushmaster, now I constantly see threads bashing them. This seem to me to be a hive mindset that is fueled by keyboard commandos. Pat Rogers is in fact well respected in this community. Has his opinion of DPMS been actually documented, or was is passed on by a guy who knows a guy that went to one of Pat's classes? If I remember correctly EAG has been making use of LWRC rifles which has been highly publicised in SWAT magazine. Did Pat pay retail or even wholesale for those rifles? Most likely not. Im not saying its right and I am not saying it is wrong, it just is. In THIS THREAD which originally was not even about DPMS. On page 6 PursuitSS called DPMS a "Hobby Gun". I went on to advise him that DPMS rifles are being used by me and the rest of the guys I work with in Afghanistan. He raised the BS flag. I then posted pics to prove it. Have not heard from him since then. My opinion has has used DPMS products over the past 6 years, both professionally and personally without issue. BUY IT AND ENJOY IT, kept properly lubed (just like any other AR type) it will serve you well. Info about PMC weapons procurement To clarify somethings here.
PMC's work on a PROFIT based system. As a result they buy equipment at as low cost to them as they can. Yes most of the contracts are cost plus basis - in the company gets reimbursed at the cost plus a set %, however for start up a lot of companies just go for first available system that is compliant. When the company gets reimbursed, the equipment becomes GFE, even if it was not not initally. I've seen a number pieces of utter crap issued in Iraq and Afghanistan on US Gov contracts. Some contracts are VERY specific and use Colt M4A1's with very limited mods - and all mods are issue. I have been on some good contracts and bad for both weapons issues (and others) From Glock19 to Glock17 to 1911A1 to Glock19 Long guns from Ak-47, Cz58, M4A1, Mk18, Sig552, Hk21, M240, M249 Para. Just because they are used in Iraq or Afghanistan, does not make a poor choice a better system or a good choice. |
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PD armorer has trouble with DPMS rifles
I have a bit more experience with DPMS than you do. The first department I worked for issued 12 of them. Of that 12 4 had issues that needed correcting before they would run out of the box. One had a J spring break which caused the hammer pin to walk which caused the gun to fire when it was put on safe (editor's note: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!). two had incorrect chamber dimensions and would not run on 5.56 ammo like the barrel said it was chambered for. Yet another was missing its gas tube retaining pin. The next department I worked for that issued them issued 4 of them all hot seated. 2 of the 4 rifles would not run and had to be sent back to DPMS. Not sure what the cause was as I was not an armorer at that department.
My current department issues 8 of them. 4 of them went down when I was teaching a patrol rifle class. Brass was getting stuck in the chamber and had to be knocked out with a cleaning rod. The same ammo ran fine in my Colt. The guns had to go back due to in correct chamber specs. DPMS sucks. The Colts I have owned have been flawless. My Noveseke is flawless. My new Larue is flawless. The truth is you get what you pay for. There is a reason why DPMS guns are cheap. Pat |
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An AAR of a class with DPMS problems DPMS: Several in attendance. A disproportionate amount of the stoppages, failures, and issues were with these guns. None possessed sufficient gas key staking. None were staked at the receiver extension nut. One had suspect chamber dims. None had the correct extractor spring assembly. One officer brought a carbine with a 4-position selector, sequenced (from the 9:00) Safe-Auto-Semi-Burst. He fought the gun. DPMS buyers cited low price and immediate availability as primary purchase criteria. When discussing desirable assembly methods and the reasons for them, one owner asked, “why don’t they just do that at the factory?” Overheard from another: “There are four problems with my gun: 1) D. 2) P. 3) M. 4) S.” Ok. This is not written by Pat Rogers. Its an AAR by some dude who attended a class. |
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Just because they are used in Iraq or Afghanistan, does not make a poor choice a better system or a good choice. I agree. I never said the DPMS was the best choice. In my opinion my own build that is in my closet at home is the best choice. I am just saying, DPMS rifles are not as bad as folks are making them out to be. |
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PD armorer has trouble with DPMS rifles I have a bit more experience with DPMS than you do. The first department I worked for issued 12 of them. Of that 12 4 had issues that needed correcting before they would run out of the box. One had a J spring break which caused the hammer pin to walk which caused the gun to fire when it was put on safe (editor's note: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!). two had incorrect chamber dimensions and would not run on 5.56 ammo like the barrel said it was chambered for. Yet another was missing its gas tube retaining pin. The next department I worked for that issued them issued 4 of them all hot seated. 2 of the 4 rifles would not run and had to be sent back to DPMS. Not sure what the cause was as I was not an armorer at that department.
My current department issues 8 of them. 4 of them went down when I was teaching a patrol rifle class. Brass was getting stuck in the chamber and had to be knocked out with a cleaning rod. The same ammo ran fine in my Colt. The guns had to go back due to in correct chamber specs. DPMS sucks. The Colts I have owned have been flawless. My Noveseke is flawless. My new Larue is flawless. The truth is you get what you pay for. There is a reason why DPMS guns are cheap. Pat More info that there is no way of confirming. I am not disputing that there has never been issues with DPMS. All Manufactures have has small component issues. Most manufactures dont produce their own small components. I can do searches and find like issues/complaints with all the "top tier" manufactures. Most of them will be from folks claiming to be experts. Why waste my time with it? Yes. We all know you get what you pay for. The OP will get a good gun at a fair price. |
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PD armorer has trouble with DPMS rifles I have a bit more experience with DPMS than you do. The first department I worked for issued 12 of them. Of that 12 4 had issues that needed correcting before they would run out of the box. One had a J spring break which caused the hammer pin to walk which caused the gun to fire when it was put on safe (editor's note: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!). two had incorrect chamber dimensions and would not run on 5.56 ammo like the barrel said it was chambered for. Yet another was missing its gas tube retaining pin. The next department I worked for that issued them issued 4 of them all hot seated. 2 of the 4 rifles would not run and had to be sent back to DPMS. Not sure what the cause was as I was not an armorer at that department.
My current department issues 8 of them. 4 of them went down when I was teaching a patrol rifle class. Brass was getting stuck in the chamber and had to be knocked out with a cleaning rod. The same ammo ran fine in my Colt. The guns had to go back due to in correct chamber specs. DPMS sucks. The Colts I have owned have been flawless. My Noveseke is flawless. My new Larue is flawless. The truth is you get what you pay for. There is a reason why DPMS guns are cheap. Pat More info that there is no way of confirming. I am not disputing that there has never been issues with DPMS. All Manufactures have has small component issues. Most manufactures dont produce their own small components. I can do searches and find like issues/complaints with all the "top tier" manufactures. Most of them will be from folks claiming to be experts. Why waste my time with it? Yes. We all know you get what you pay for. The OP will get a good gun at a fair price. And what makes your word any more valid than theirs? If you can discount what numerous people are saying, why should anyone think that you know what YOU are talking about? Jay |
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PD armorer has trouble with DPMS rifles I have a bit more experience with DPMS than you do. The first department I worked for issued 12 of them. Of that 12 4 had issues that needed correcting before they would run out of the box. One had a J spring break which caused the hammer pin to walk which caused the gun to fire when it was put on safe (editor's note: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!). two had incorrect chamber dimensions and would not run on 5.56 ammo like the barrel said it was chambered for. Yet another was missing its gas tube retaining pin. The next department I worked for that issued them issued 4 of them all hot seated. 2 of the 4 rifles would not run and had to be sent back to DPMS. Not sure what the cause was as I was not an armorer at that department.
My current department issues 8 of them. 4 of them went down when I was teaching a patrol rifle class. Brass was getting stuck in the chamber and had to be knocked out with a cleaning rod. The same ammo ran fine in my Colt. The guns had to go back due to in correct chamber specs. DPMS sucks. The Colts I have owned have been flawless. My Noveseke is flawless. My new Larue is flawless. The truth is you get what you pay for. There is a reason why DPMS guns are cheap. Pat More info that there is no way of confirming. I am not disputing that there has never been issues with DPMS. All Manufactures have has small component issues. Most manufactures dont produce their own small components. I can do searches and find like issues/complaints with all the "top tier" manufactures. Most of them will be from folks claiming to be experts. Why waste my time with it? Yes. We all know you get what you pay for. The OP will get a good gun at a fair price. And what makes your word any more valid than theirs? If you can discount what numerous people are saying, why should anyone think that you know what YOU are talking about? Jay Well, lets see. How about the fact that I am not trashing one brand and praising another? |
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Well, lets see. How about the fact that I am not trashing one brand and praising another? How does that alter the facts at hand? How does that change the fact that there are numerous reports from people of DPMS guns failing? How about people like UBB who trash Colt at every juncture? I'm sure you agree with his assessment of DPMS rifles, since it dovetails with your opinion. He trashes Colt all the time yet I'm sure you would agree with his opinion. Jay |
| Hey Op sorry about the douche bags ruining your thread with the hateraid, its hard for people to realize that not everyone is going to be kicking in doors and clearing rooms with a $1300 gun and $1200 dollars worth of optics on it. $739 is a decent price. I would call other shops for a slightly better price but its retail. Most makers give you 2 magazines and a case so i wouldn't get hung up on that. I have a DPMS and have no regrets about it. Buy it, you won't regret it. keep it lubed and enjoy |
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I have one and love it. Zero problems. Quoted:
I visited the gun show this morning and found this deal. It is a new DPMS AR15, Light 16" Barrel, tactical stock, A3 Upper, Removable Carry Handle, and it is the 5.56 Nato. The gun also comes with two 30 round magazines, a hard gun gas, cleaning kit, and a free t-shirt haha. All for 739.00. I think it's a good deal and it's the exact rifle I am looking for. What do you think? |
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Well, lets see. How about the fact that I am not trashing one brand and praising another? How does that alter the facts at hand? How does that change the fact that there are numerous reports from people of DPMS guns failing? How about people like UBB who trash Colt at every juncture? I'm sure you agree with his assessment of DPMS rifles, since it dovetails with your opinion. He trashes Colt all the time yet I'm sure you would agree with his opinion. Jay I trash Colt? Really? go find a post of mine where I trash Colt. Aside from the fact I'm not a fan of the UAW, and I'm not a kool aid drinker like so many here are I can hardly be labeled a Colt hater. Although one could say I am a hater of the Colt snobs that frequent these parts on a regular basis. Or I guess you could jump on the bandwagon like a few other members here do and just flat out make shit up and then pretend that I said them. 
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Well, lets see. How about the fact that I am not trashing one brand and praising another? How does that alter the facts at hand? How does that change the fact that there are numerous reports from people of DPMS guns failing? How about people like UBB who trash Colt at every juncture? I'm sure you agree with his assessment of DPMS rifles, since it dovetails with your opinion. He trashes Colt all the time yet I'm sure you would agree with his opinion. Jay Once again. I am trashing no one. I really have no dog in this fight. The OP was asking opinions on DPMS and I gave mine, coupled with the fact that I actually use the product. Now you are making assumption that I am siding with a given manufacturer or persons opinion. Your are making this thread quite childish. At this time I will take the high ground and bow out of this one. Good day. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Pat Rogers is hardly alone in his opinion of Dpms. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Everyone has an opinion, but are they based on fact or hearsay. I remember a few years ago everyone thoght highly of Bushmaster, now I constantly see threads bashing them. This seem to me to be a hive mindset that is fueled by keyboard commandos. Pat Rogers is in fact well respected in this community. Has his opinion of DPMS been actually documented, or was is passed on by a guy who knows a guy that went to one of Pat's classes? If I remember correctly EAG has been making use of LWRC rifles which has been highly publicised in SWAT magazine. Did Pat pay retail or even wholesale for those rifles? Most likely not. Im not saying its right and I am not saying it is wrong, it just is. In THIS THREAD which originally was not even about DPMS. On page 6 PursuitSS called DPMS a "Hobby Gun". I went on to advise him that DPMS rifles are being used by me and the rest of the guys I work with in Afghanistan. He raised the BS flag. I then posted pics to prove it. Have not heard from him since then. My opinion has has used DPMS products over the past 6 years, both professionally and personally without issue. BUY IT AND ENJOY IT, kept properly lubed (just like any other AR type) it will serve you well. Based on examining DPMS rifles, parts and some aspects of their business model and I'm not talking about Pat Rogers, I've never met him. That's about as specific as I'm going to post. If you want to mark that off as meaningless hearsay it makes no difference to me in the end. Some guys have inadvertently used airsoft aimpoints in Iraq that worked for quite a while before they shit the bed and got sent into aimpoint for warranty work where it was discovered they were fakes. Just because someone somewhere has lugged a brand x into battle and lived to tell the tale doesn't convince me it's a wise choice. I bet Olympic Arms has a contract with some police department or foreign military. Bushmaster sold a ton of ARs to the Georgians and Thailand, um Thai? Thailandians? Doesn't change the fact that they aren't that hot about staking gas keys. Remember the 223 caliber rifles that DPMS shipped out marked at 5.56mm? |
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OP -
I think that the price is high given that you can get a complete Daniel Defense AR for $999 from Aim Surplus right now. The quality of the barrel alone is worth the difference. I do not know if you have a $700 budget, but I would not spend that much and get so little in terms of quality (both the parts used and the assembly) and reliability when compared to DD. As others have said on here - buy once cry once. Or just shop around for a better deal on a standard AR. |
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I agree that one should just pay a little more and get something better.
they dont have a good track record, thats for sure..... hence I prefer to stay away from them. I know a private contractor that uses a DPMS too, and he is in afghanistan for another stint.I must admit I was rather startled to hear it, when I asked him what he used. I believe the company supplied it, which makes me believe it was a low bidder scenario
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Pat Rogers is hardly alone in his opinion of Dpms. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Everyone has an opinion, but are they based on fact or hearsay. I remember a few years ago everyone thoght highly of Bushmaster, now I constantly see threads bashing them. This seem to me to be a hive mindset that is fueled by keyboard commandos. Pat Rogers is in fact well respected in this community. Has his opinion of DPMS been actually documented, or was is passed on by a guy who knows a guy that went to one of Pat's classes? If I remember correctly EAG has been making use of LWRC rifles which has been highly publicised in SWAT magazine. Did Pat pay retail or even wholesale for those rifles? Most likely not. Im not saying its right and I am not saying it is wrong, it just is. In THIS THREAD which originally was not even about DPMS. On page 6 PursuitSS called DPMS a "Hobby Gun". I went on to advise him that DPMS rifles are being used by me and the rest of the guys I work with in Afghanistan. He raised the BS flag. I then posted pics to prove it. Have not heard from him since then. My opinion has has used DPMS products over the past 6 years, both professionally and personally without issue. BUY IT AND ENJOY IT, kept properly lubed (just like any other AR type) it will serve you well. Based on examining DPMS rifles, parts and some aspects of their business model and I'm not talking about Pat Rogers, I've never met him. That's about as specific as I'm going to post. If you want to mark that off as meaningless hearsay it makes no difference to me in the end. Some guys have inadvertently used airsoft aimpoints in Iraq that worked for quite a while before they shit the bed and got sent into aimpoint for warranty work where it was discovered they were fakes. Just because someone somewhere has lugged a brand x into battle and lived to tell the tale doesn't convince me it's a wise choice. I bet Olympic Arms has a contract with some police department or foreign military. Bushmaster sold a ton of ARs to the Georgians and Thailand, um Thai? Thailandians? Doesn't change the fact that they aren't that hot about staking gas keys. Remember the 223 caliber rifles that DPMS shipped out marked at 5.56mm? Since I was quoted I will jump back in only to address this last one. At no point did I say or suggest that DPMS was the best choice. Just said I was using them now and have used them in the past to good effect. The reason I even mentioned it was to lend crediibility to my statement. Not to be the guy that heard it from a guy that hear it from a guy that read it on the internet. Matter of fact I earlier said that in my opinion my custom build in my closet back home would be my choice. |
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Quoted: Since I was quoted I will jump back in only to address this last one. At no point did I say or suggest that DPMS was the best choice. Just said I was using them now and have used them in the past to good effect. The reason I even mentioned it was to lend crediibility to my statement. Not to be the guy that heard it from a guy that hear it from a guy that read it on the internet. Matter of fact I earlier said that in my opinion my custom build in my closet back home would be my choice. Hey how are the ones you have staked? I've always wondered if companies (not just DPMS) do things differently for .mil or whatever contracts, although I guess I am assuming yours aren't just generic DPMS carbines bought through a distributor. |
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Hey how are the ones you have staked? I've always wondered if companies (not just DPMS) do things differently for .mil or whatever contracts, although I guess I am assuming yours aren't just generic DPMS carbines bought through a distributor. to answer your question, yes. .mil contracts are ALWAYS executed differently by the average contractor than private sector contracts. i dont want to start any fights, but ive been reading "lowest bidder" arguments here for a while, and there are alot of misconceptions floating around. let me preface this by saying that i put food on my table thanks in part to .mil contracts or derivatives thereof. im familiar with the bidding process for service and supply procurement. first and foremost, all .mil contracts are, by nature, inflexible. you can object to any particular line item in a contract during the bidding process, but if its a continuation of an existing contract (i.e. you are continuing work that was previously done by some other contractor), you dont rock the boat. if you do, you will not get the contract –– tough titty. do as requested, whether its asinine or not. .gov wants something they dont need that doubles the cost of the contract? leave it alone. inferior parts requested by name? leave them in there. something dangerous? oh well. thats why they sign the contract too. its not your rodeo. the best you can do is point it out. im sorry, but the United States government process of procurement is a farce. as far as im concerned, most supply officers, inspectors, and other government QA personnel are cowards. they will waste money (or get someone hurt) before they make any attempt to adjust a line item on a procurement or service contract. anyone who thinks that the "mil spec" exists for quality assurance has never truly dealt with that side of government logistics. in fact, ive met more retired and active military "supply" folks who dont know how to adjust a contract, currently valid or not, than do. on the flip side, the .gov pays contractors well for dealing with this nightmare, while punishing any disent. being a patriotic contractor and trying to save the government money will put you in the poorhouse. so when we fullfil a government contract, they get exactly what they asked for, not exactly what we sell. we will modify anything, including our work practices, for the sake of the contract. and if it costs the government quality, then so be it. they didnt ask for quality. they asked for every line item, on time, in exact quantities. or else. im sure DPMS treats the .gov the same. |
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Since I was quoted I will jump back in only to address this last one. At no point did I say or suggest that DPMS was the best choice. Just said I was using them now and have used them in the past to good effect. The reason I even mentioned it was to lend crediibility to my statement. Not to be the guy that heard it from a guy that hear it from a guy that read it on the internet. Matter of fact I earlier said that in my opinion my custom build in my closet back home would be my choice. Hey how are the ones you have staked? I've always wondered if companies (not just DPMS) do things differently for .mil or whatever contracts, although I guess I am assuming yours aren't just generic DPMS carbines bought through a distributor. 
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