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Posted: 12/30/2009 12:19:28 AM EDT
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Would the LWRC Enhanced Fire Control Group be a good choice for my SHTF M4?
I haven't tried one..., but they sound like a tightened up, smoothed out Mil-Spec FCG @ a good price! All feedback will be greatly appreciated! http://www.lwrci.com/p-39-fire-control-group-assembly.aspx |
| Here's a link to my experiences doing my own trigger workLink. I did the some of the 15 minute trgger job(15 minute trigger job) , polishing the sear, hammer and pins, and used the JP spring kitJP springs. I'm very happy with the results. Best to pick up a spare fire control group, do your trigger work on that set and save your original set as a " known good" set. That way if you screw up you can go back to stock configuration. See them ocaisionally on the EE, or some companies like ARmalite will sell you a new group for $35. Or youcan just buy a finished one from Bill Springfield. Lots of happy customers. I just like doing my own, lots of satisfaction. |
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Unless you going for a 2 stage trigger I wouldnt even consider buying another trigger group +1 shtf trigger is the milspec I know people call it the milspec, but there's no mil spec for a semi auto AR15 FCG. But yes, the factory "LPK" is dead simple, reliable, and SHTF ready. If you want to mod it, you can use a set screw to tune out creep, and do hte 16 minute trigger job on it. |
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$35 for a Bill Springfield mod to a stock trigger is the most cost-effective. Thanks slashsplat, I contacted Bill today & sent him two FCG's to work that trigger voodoo., that he do!! 
I'll post the results when I get them back. I think rolling your own is a great skill to develop, and I like REALLY knowing my gear. But given the risk of a "just" acceptable shaving/polishing job wearing into "unacceptable" does not fit my definition of SHTF. The difference is thousandths of an inch, as I learned fine tuning my JP triggers (successfully). For true SHTF, $35 and the work of a guy who must do 20 a day seems the right way to go. I have had 7 done by him, and they were all 85% the quality feel of my JP and Geisselle triggers. I prefer the AR-Gold ever since I got one, though, so the Springfields mostly sit waiting for a receiver home. But I totally trust them. I do not think a two-stage (like my Geisselle) has any place in SHTF. The additional (perceived) accuracy possible has no place when SHTF. And the mechanism is more complicated and more parts have to work perfectly. The ultimate trigger is the AR-Gold, and gained me 10 points in competition. When you get them back, you can fine tune the pull by replacing or bending the springs for more or less pull. I prefer heavy for SHTF and try to get about 5# or even 6. I am used to 4.5# (closer to 5) in my competition service and match rifles. |
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If you like a single stage, go stock trigger, maybe with a Springfield trigger job (my friend just had it done do his Colt, it's good).
2-stage, go Geiselle SSA, as they are very durable and not anywhere close to "too light" (think breaking a carrot as opposed to a glass rod). I prefer a 2 stage, as I learned to shoot on surplus rifles like the M1, and they are JUST FINE for SHTF. Most military rifles have 2-stage triggers. The RRA trigger really fucked up the reputation of 2-stage triggers in the AR. Use QUALITY parts that work for YOU. |
| I have two Giessele DMRs. One has a heavy trigger spring and the other has a "don't flinch" match spring. If you might someday be running around with your weapon, just keep your finger out of the guard until you are ready to take the shot. I have never heard of a Giessele failure.... |
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Would the LWRC Enhanced Fire Control Group be a good choice for my SHTF M4? I haven't tried one..., but they sound like a tightened up, smoothed out Mil-Spec FCG @ a good price! All feedback will be greatly appreciated! http://www.lwrci.com/p-39-fire-control-group-assembly.aspx jesus christ thats over half the price of a geissele SSA |
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I don't buy or use AR's for their triggers. I leave mine alone. That's all well & good for some people, or for those that take their AR out just to "blast away" at stuff. Then obviously they wouldn't want, or really even need anything other than a garden variety Mil-Spec FCG! But many of us log a considerable amount of range time with our SHTF AR's trying to sharpen our shooting skills so that if & when.., the "Shit Hits The Fan", we will have confidence in our ability to place shots right where they need to go from various distances, angles, situations & conditions!! I'm not nessesarily talking about a light trigger pull...., but rather a GOOD, smooth, solid FCG (Single Stage is my preference) with little to no creep & over travel that breaks & resets cleanly & consistantly..., and most importantly.., is reliable enough to trust with your life! I am a firm believer that "Consistancy Breeds Accuracy!!" and consistency starts with good control, and good control cannot be effectively achived without a GOOD trigger ...., period!! I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that a GOOD trigger, properly set up for the type of shooting your are doing, goes a long way towards consistency & accuracy with any firearm...., regardless of weather you're shooting off hand, prone, from a rest, or a bench! For those who just "blast away" with no real method to thier maddness, not really knowing, or caring, about accuracy and/or consistancy....., well this topic is not something that would interested them anyway! One things for sure though....., if I ever do have to defend myself, my family, my home, friends, community or Country with a firearm, I sure hope that I am going up against someone with that "blast away" approach to shooting......, cause it would be a short fight!!!
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interesting that you mention the AR gold trigger - I would love to try one. Thinking about getting one, but haven't really heard any reviews - could you go into a bit of detail about it. ? My buddy has an ar gold trigger on his dpms build that i have shot with numerous times and i love it, im buying one as soon as i have the funds. |
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I think the most cost effective is learning how to do your own trigger work. It's not that hard to do. Cost effective and efficient aren't always the same thing. I'll have Bill do my triggers and not worry about slipping and buggering up something.  Seriously, he's got tons of experience and all the jigs, so any trigger work I did would be a mere shadow of his. I consider his modest fee well worth it.
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Cost effective and efficient aren't always the same thing. I'll have Bill do my triggers and not worry about slipping and buggering up something.
Seriously, he's got tons of experience and all the jigs, so any trigger work I did would be a mere shadow of his. I consider his modest fee well worth it.I totally agree! I have done several Trigger jobs myself that feel really good......, but I'm not about to trust my live to them!!! There is a lot more to refining a Mil-Spec FCG than pull weight, Smoothness, creep & over travel. It has to be RELIABLE ...., above all else!! |
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******FOLLOW UP******
Well I just got my 3 FCG's back from Bill Springfield, installed & tested them. I had him do 2 @ 4lbs.with the Speed Hammer Mod. & 1 @ 3lbs. What can I say but...., AWECOME job Bill!! The turn around time was very fast as well......, got them back in 5 days! It just dosen't get any better than this! Thank you slashsplat for sugggesting Bill Springfield www.triggerjobs.net I could not be happier with the results..., not to mention saving literally HUNDREDS of dollars by not having to but 3 quality after maket FCG's
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The LWRC IS the same spec as the others. Just with their coating on it. It's not mil spec, but then none of them that aren't the 3 rounds burst from an A2, A4 or M4, or the full auto from an A3 or M4A1 are "mil-spec." If only they made one for the larger pins on a Cold I'd have one for it. Probably will order one for my Bushmaster though eventually.
I've a question about Bill Springfield as I've been thinking about buying a set from him for my Colt (and having the stock FCG as a spare). I've been reading a little bit about his FCGs doubling. Sort of makes me wonder about the reliability. |
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Quoted: I've a question about Bill Springfield as I've been thinking about buying a set from him for my Colt (and having the stock FCG as a spare). I've been reading a little bit about his FCGs doubling. Sort of makes me wonder about the reliability.
I thought I had researched Bill Springfield pretty well before I sent my FCG's to him? I did'nt find even one bad word about his AR-15 trigger jobs! Unicorn; Could you post a link to the threads you found about some of Bill's FCG's doubling? |
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******FOLLOW UP****** Well I just got my 3 FCG's back from Bill Springfield, installed & tested them. I had him do 2 @ 4lbs.with the Speed Hammer Mod. & 1 @ 3lbs. What can I say but...., AWECOME job Bill!! The turn around time was very fast as well......, got them back in 5 days! It just dosen't get any better than this! Thank you slashsplat for sugggesting Bill Springfield www.triggerjobs.net I could not be happier with the results..., not to mention saving literally HUNDREDS of dollars by not having to but 3 quality after maket FCG's
You hot linked a dead site though the site is actually www.trigerwork.net |
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[/quote]You hot linked a dead site though the site is actually www.trigerwork.net[/quote]
Thank you ACOGless for correcting the link!! |
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Quoted: I've a question about Bill Springfield as I've been thinking about buying a set from him for my Colt (and having the stock FCG as a spare). I've been reading a little bit about his FCGs doubling. Sort of makes me wonder about the reliability.
I thought I had researched Bill Springfield pretty well before I sent my FCG's to him? I did'nt find even one bad word about his AR-15 trigger jobs! Unicorn; Could you post a link to the threads you found about some of Bill's FCG's doubling? http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/456107574?r=191103674#191103674 |
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I have been thinking about sending in a few triggers to bill to get them lightened. But I cant decide on weight. One will be for s SBR 9mm other for a "utility" carbine (not really built for high accuracy) Is 3lbs to light for those rifles? I dont want to have an accidental discharge because I just thought about pulling the trigger.
What does the speed hammer mod do? Anyone sent an RRA 2 stage for him to lighten? Results? |
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I have been thinking about sending in a few triggers to bill to get them lightened. But I cant decide on weight. One will be for s SBR 9mm other for a "utility" carbine (not really built for high accuracy) Is 3lbs to light for those rifles? I dont want to have an accidental discharge because I just thought about pulling the trigger. What does the speed hammer mod do? Anyone sent an RRA 2 stage for him to lighten? Results? I had Bill work a FCG for me, and I just took the gun to the range for the first time. I asked for 4 pounds, and as well as I can measure that's pretty close to what I got. Wow. It was awesome. Clean and crisp, and quite light. 4 pounds is enough to keep you from letting one go because of a sneeze, but it's hardly heavy. I am definitely having the FCG from my SBR done at 4, and the rest of the family will get 4 pound triggers after that. In my opinion a 3 pound trigger is too light. |
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Quoted: I've a question about Bill Springfield as I've been thinking about buying a set from him for my Colt (and having the stock FCG as a spare). I've been reading a little bit about his FCGs doubling. Sort of makes me wonder about the reliability.
I thought I had researched Bill Springfield pretty well before I sent my FCG's to him? I did'nt find even one bad word about his AR-15 trigger jobs! Unicorn; Could you post a link to the threads you found about some of Bill's FCG's doubling? http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/456107574?r=191103674#191103674 Your link will not let non-members in! |
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Quoted: I've a question about Bill Springfield as I've been thinking about buying a set from him for my Colt (and having the stock FCG as a spare). I've been reading a little bit about his FCGs doubling. Sort of makes me wonder about the reliability.
I thought I had researched Bill Springfield pretty well before I sent my FCG's to him? I did'nt find even one bad word about his AR-15 trigger jobs! Unicorn; Could you post a link to the threads you found about some of Bill's FCG's doubling? http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/456107574?r=191103674#191103674 Your link will not let non-members in! Oops! Here are a couple quotes. I had Springfield do one of my triggers. It doubled on me, so I took it out of the gun. I hear tell he can walk me through how to fix that, but I don't want a tinkering solution I want a final solution. Even if his advice on how to tinker with it cured it in the short term I would never have any confidence in it again.
Buddy of mine had one of these and it kept doubling on him. Needless to say it was switched out with a reg. Mil Spec.
He might do 99 out of a 100 trouble free jobs, but I've experienced one of his bad ones and will be leary from now on. Had a CETME trigger(my hobby .308) done by Bill. Like the others, it doubled as well. I sent Bill an email, he said send it back. It returned to me without further issue. So Bill gets good marks for customer service, but doubling seems to be a reoccurring issue. If your trigger is really horrible, you might consider ordering a new milspec trigger from a reputable manufacturer.
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I sent 2 trigger groups to Bill today for his 4lb tunning work, $39 each not $35 according to his site. Any comments from those of you that have had theirs already worked by Bill will be appreciated, talked to him over the phone and he seems to be a very accomodating fellow.
Debated for the hammer cut also, or even having one go down to 3.5 lbs but for carry work I think 4lbs is best. |
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Quoted: I've a question about Bill Springfield as I've been thinking about buying a set from him for my Colt (and having the stock FCG as a spare). I've been reading a little bit about his FCGs doubling. Sort of makes me wonder about the reliability.
I thought I had researched Bill Springfield pretty well before I sent my FCG's to him? I did'nt find even one bad word about his AR-15 trigger jobs! Unicorn; Could you post a link to the threads you found about some of Bill's FCG's doubling? http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/456107574?r=191103674#191103674 Your link will not let non-members in! Oops! Here are a couple quotes. I had Springfield do one of my triggers. It doubled on me, so I took it out of the gun. I hear tell he can walk me through how to fix that, but I don't want a tinkering solution I want a final solution. Even if his advice on how to tinker with it cured it in the short term I would never have any confidence in it again.
Buddy of mine had one of these and it kept doubling on him. Needless to say it was switched out with a reg. Mil Spec.
He might do 99 out of a 100 trouble free jobs, but I've experienced one of his bad ones and will be leary from now on. Had a CETME trigger(my hobby .308) done by Bill. Like the others, it doubled as well. I sent Bill an email, he said send it back. It returned to me without further issue. So Bill gets good marks for customer service, but doubling seems to be a reoccurring issue. If your trigger is really horrible, you might consider ordering a new milspec trigger from a reputable manufacturer.
I can attest to these testimonies. I had Bill do a 3# trigger on my DMPS LR-308 with the factory FCG. I also had him do the speed hammer mod. The trigger just feels funny to me. First initial pull is still 5-6# and subsequent shots when only going out to reset are light and short, but the very first shot out of the gate at the range doubled on me and did it a couple of more times during the same range session. I'm replacing it with an SR Gold trigger. |
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A stock trigger group will be the best choice for a SHTF rifle.
I would not recommend working on an AR-15 or any semi-auto trigger unless you are qualified to do so. (other than changing the springs) It is very easy to mess one up and if it goes FA in the wrong place you can easily see jail time. |
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A stock trigger group will be the best choice for a SHTF rifle. I would not recommend working on an AR-15 or any semi-auto trigger.. This is the correct answer. There is NO 'trigger work' that will enhance reliability. You might get a better trigger pull for a while but you've sacrificed reliablity & durability to get it. Go with best quality STOCK single stage AR-15 trigger (like the Colt). In a 'SHTF' self defense shooting it won't be about 1/4 MOA groups at 300y - it will be about having the rifle go 'bang' every time when you're shaking from an adrenaline rush due to fear/excitement. |
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