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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SHTF AR question? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/13/2009 12:13:45 PM EDT
| I know tacticool is all the rage with AR's these days,and can give you quite the advantage.I was wondering how many of you have a "bare bones" all stock AR as your "go to" gun?Most AK's i see don't have all the bells and whistles hanging off them,but the AR's do.Just wondering??? |
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My Colt SP-1 is my full time never leaves truck gun. It is accompanied by a range bag with earplugs, Oakley straight jackets, Brigade quartermaster medium trauma kit and 6-30round mags. The only thing ever done to it was a trigger job and it was sent to Walter birdsong for its Black-T finish..
Even though my other AR's in my safe are technicaly my go to guns (Red dot sights, VFG and lights) I spend more time in and around my truck than in my house. |
mine was barebones until about 3 weeks ago. I was thinking that my flat top was looking kind of naked and that I'd end up getting a primary arms m4 rds for it whenever Marsh got them in or whenever I saw a good one on the EE. I then decided to put a troy drop in quad rail on the front in case I wanted to add the flashlight and magnifier (to the rds) later. I then thought it would be nice to have a vfg "just in case" I wanted to put it on. I got a knights armament vfg and put it on to check for fit and to see whether I liked it or not. It didn't come off! yesterday my primary arms m4 came in and now I think it's time to get that sling. Well I guess to answer your question I no longer fit in the bare bones catagory, but I'm pretty happy with the look and feel of it.  On the other hand, my best friend has a safe queen bone stock LMT monolithic gas piston that he hasn't even shot yet. One of my other buddies has a few Colt 6920's still in the box and they both like to keep things simple. Usually I like putting my own touch on my weapons. That could mean changing 1 or 2 things to make it a little different, but that could also mean going from stock to tactical. Having said that though, there are certain things that I just think should stay stock and my sks is one of them. I'm not a big fan of bubba'ing those out and I rarely see any bubba'd or tacticool'd sks' that I like. To each their own I guess though right? 
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All my ARs have an optic - Eotech or ACOG. They also have BUIS and a Trijicon Front sight posts, Single point sling. Two have scopes - a 10X Super Sniper and a 6.5 x 20 Zeiss. Two have M6X lights.
SKSs - one with a POSP scope, the others have irons. One PSL with 8X illuminated. Handguns with night sights and lights. If I ain't got it covered, I'm SOL. Even if all the optics fail, I have irons. Basic rifle is my 6.8 SPC with an Eotech, standard FS and MaTech BUIS. If I can see you, I can hit you and that ain't good. If I am under attack from a mass of paper targets, I am well trained 
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'bare bones' lacks a light and sling. You guys should check out this thread, it's where the following quote was taken from... My KISS SHTF carbine... Quoted:
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Well, I gotta disagree a little bit. The first "S" in KISS means "simple". However, it seems that many here think "simple" is the same as "retro" or "nostalgic". It is not. I define "Simple" as meaning the minimum amount of equipment you would require the rifle to have in order to fulfill whatever situation you are likely to encounter. So, to me it really is a static term that varies depending on the user. If what someone posts pics of what they consider to be their "KISS" rifle, who am I to tell them what they need? My needs are different from a patrol cop, a SWAT cop, a contractor, or a match competitor. Put it this way, many of us have slightly more than one AR.  That gives us the luxury of having "dedicated" rifles (HD gun, 3-gun rifle, NM rifle, M4-gery, "retro", etc). For guys like us who have a bunch of AR's it's easy to sit and say "your rifle isn't KISS". BUT, what if you have ONE AR and you want it to be a relatively KISS rifle? Or you just don't have the scratch for all the bells and whistles? I know I would definitely require a light on my HD gun, and an optic would be nice too. Plus, depending on the optic, should it take a dump, it can still be used as a large ghost ring rear sight. So, to me a light and optic can definitely still be KISS.
The KISS (the band) carbine you posted, while nice is not necessarily KISS. It's retro. /\ Sorry, that's a Non Sequitur. But I see what you mean, and I agree. The whole thing is terminology. For those of you that want a "non static" definition of KISS, I think the term you're looking for is Operational. I guess my issue is when someone has a light and/or optic, but they still want to claim that KISS tag. Why be afraid to call it what it is? KISS should be reserved (and defined) for people who intentionally build their rifles that way. As for the KISS (band) pic I posted... it is necessarily KISS, while also being retro. It's in the same vein as, "water is wet, but everything that's wet is not water". Quoted:
Threepoint14: I like Trumpet's and 103's ideas about what a "KISS" rifle should be. I'd describe the type of AR you depicted above as "bare bone", simple to the extreme. I agree it is still very effective in the hands of people who knows how to use it such as yourself. I am willing to bet, however, given two riflemen with the same levels of skills, the one that is equipped with an optic and a light on his rifle would most likely have the upper hand. No? Thank you! Yes, you're exactly right. Like I said before, SHTF & KISS don't really go together. "Barebone"? Why introduce a needless term? I'm absolutely NOT against putting a light on a weapon, but why try to still call it a KISS rifle? Like I said above, it sounds like the term most of you are looking for is Operational. BTW, here is my SHTF carbine: 
... and this is my KISS rifle: 
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| I think most people keep things off their rifles because the more you have, the more that can go wrong, but if you buy really high quality stuff, you dont really have that problem. Things that run on batteries, even though they may have excellent life, are still something you need to take care of and watch besides the rifle itself. I would recommed geting a KISS rifle in addition to a decked out carbine if you are worried about it. |
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IMO the biggest problem with a SHTF gun is going to be weight. The more stuff you have on the rifle the heavier it will be. Since shit has hit the fan the rifle will be on your person 24hrs a day. It needs to be light and you need a good sling. Like a said before a light and a red dot is all I want for SHTF. One of the Trijicon red dots would be ideal. No batteries in the optic would be nice. Cause you wil need a lot of cr123s for your light. With an aimpoint you may only need a spare or two since the battery life is amazing.
Hopefully this makes a little sense. I am a little drunk and posting from an iPhone. |
For me KISS means not a bunch of crap hanging off my rifle. My SHTF AR consists of a M4A2 configuration with 14.5 inch barrel and permanent Phantom FH. The only mods I have made to it are tritium rear and front sights, Magpul grip and trigger guard, front sling swivel and a Vickers two point sling. Think of humping it 20 miles a day with a full pack and in that scenario, lighter is better. I'm not going to be engaging hordes of bad guys and a tacticool rifle is just not what a guy needs or wants. In the picture below, the top rifle is my KISS rifle.
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Nothing at all wrong with a bare bones rifle. In a hypothetical prolonged SHTF situation all your batteries, parts, etc will possibly be lost, used, broken, etc. The longer the duration, the more likely. I personally like having a sold, reliable, iron-sight zeroed rifle without all the gadgets clapped to it. That way I can focus more on the marksmanship and tactics and less on the gear. The add-ons are nice for the fun-factor but in reality -IMO- its the the man, not the machine that wins. Plus I like making fun of geardos to a point. We could debate the 'need' for a lot of these accessories for hours but like I said- I am a fan of the KISS concept. YMMV- 4073 |
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Nothing at all wrong with a bare bones rifle. In a hypothetical prolonged SHTF situation all your batteries, parts, etc will possibly be lost, used, broken, etc. The longer the duration, the more likely. I personally like having a sold, reliable, iron-sight zeroed rifle without all the gadgets clapped to it. That way I can focus more on the marksmanship and tactics and less on the gear. The add-ons are nice for the fun-factor but in reality -IMO- its the the man, not the machine that wins. Plus I like making fun of geardos to a point. We could debate the 'need' for a lot of these accessories for hours but like I said- I am a fan of the KISS concept. YMMV- 4073 Sure but the add ons that offer an advantage can be used and if the run out of battery or break - I just remove them and I am left with a kiss rifle I know how to use. Or if you like, just remove them from the start and you have the KISS rifle. My Eotech is a big plus for me - I can get on target faster, have faster follow up shots - but in the end you have to know how to use irons. |
| The main problem I have with any shtf situation is that you never know what you will encounter. Therefore you need to be prepared for anything, CQB, medium range, longer range, night time, daytime, one guy, or lots of guys. When SHTF truly you had better be prepared for anything. Saying well I can hit a target at 400-500 with irons is fine when you are bench or prone shooting at the range, but when targets get obscured or are partially hidden, things can get complicated really fast. That being said i try to keep various optics in my pack with QR capablities so I can quickly adapt to the given situation (RDS, and 3x9 w/bdc) . Some things every SHTF rifle should always have are a sling, a light, and BUIS. Everything past that is personal preference, but I would rather be over prepared than under any day. |
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cool a tech troll . My go to rifle has tacticool stuff hanging on it .Flaslight ,Sling and VFG along with a nice stock and maybe optics .Would this put me at a disadvantage in SHTF scenerio? More stuff to get in the way, weigh you down and more stuff to fail. |
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cool a tech troll . My go to rifle has tacticool stuff hanging on it .Flaslight ,Sling and VFG along with a nice stock and maybe optics .Would this put me at a disadvantage in SHTF scenerio? More stuff to get in the way, weigh you down and more stuff to fail. An Extra pound is not a problem . Everything is QD .No reason not to have the extras unless it is not in your budget. |
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For the purposes you describe, this is as "KISS" as I'd go. http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z96/M4builder/ARFCOM/100_0437.jpg What model is that Springfield Armory in the pic? |
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cool a tech troll . My go to rifle has tacticool stuff hanging on it .Flaslight ,Sling and VFG along with a nice stock and maybe optics .Would this put me at a disadvantage in SHTF scenerio? More stuff to get in the way, weigh you down and more stuff to fail. 
Yeah, my aimpoint weighs 4 ozs and with the batteries carried on the rifle will be dead in 10 years, it's practically useless. My light? Well that's a whole nother 4ozs of useless weight that will eventually go dead. Oh wait I can take it off at any time and it allows me to ID my target in the dark. Rail, vfg? I must be so stupid, what am I thinking, having something that's stronger than stock handguards for minimal weight increase and then adding an accessory that helps me get my gun on target faster. You keep your KISS* rifle, I'll keep my lightweight rifle that has better capabilities. Food for thought, what's more "KISS", lining up iron sights that are hard to see in the dark or putting a dot on the target and pulling the trigger? *see also: REDUCED CAPABILITY RIFLE |
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cool a tech troll . My go to rifle has tacticool stuff hanging on it .Flaslight ,Sling and VFG along with a nice stock and maybe optics .Would this put me at a disadvantage in SHTF scenerio? More stuff to get in the way, weigh you down and more stuff to fail.
Yeah, my aimpoint weighs 4 ozs and with the batteries carried on the rifle will be dead in 10 years, it's practically useless. My light? Well that's a whole nother 4ozs of useless weight that will eventually go dead. Oh wait I can take it off at any time and it allows me to ID my target in the dark. Rail, vfg? I must be so stupid, what am I thinking, having something that's stronger than stock handguards for minimal weight increase and then adding an accessory that helps me get my gun on target faster. You keep your KISS* rifle, I'll keep my lightweight rifle that has better capabilities. Food for thought, what's more "KISS", lining up iron sights that are hard to see in the dark or putting a dot on the target and pulling the trigger? *see also: REDUCED CAPABILITY RIFLE See how much capacity your Aimpoint will have after EMP. |
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cool a tech troll . My go to rifle has tacticool stuff hanging on it .Flaslight ,Sling and VFG along with a nice stock and maybe optics .Would this put me at a disadvantage in SHTF scenerio? More stuff to get in the way, weigh you down and more stuff to fail.
Yeah, my aimpoint weighs 4 ozs and with the batteries carried on the rifle will be dead in 10 years, it's practically useless. My light? Well that's a whole nother 4ozs of useless weight that will eventually go dead. Oh wait I can take it off at any time and it allows me to ID my target in the dark. Rail, vfg? I must be so stupid, what am I thinking, having something that's stronger than stock handguards for minimal weight increase and then adding an accessory that helps me get my gun on target faster. You keep your KISS* rifle, I'll keep my lightweight rifle that has better capabilities. Food for thought, what's more "KISS", lining up iron sights that are hard to see in the dark or putting a dot on the target and pulling the trigger? *see also: REDUCED CAPABILITY RIFLE See how much capacity your Aimpoint will have after EMP. In the event there is an EMP, I guess I'll be screwed, or... I'll take it off and use my BUIS. Will the EMP disable anything that resembles a flathead screwdriver as well? |
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The army has a saying METT-T MISSION, EQUIPMENT, TIME, TERRAIN, AND TECHNIQUE
Basically Mission dictates equipment, time and terrain dictate what equipment & tecniques you use. Here in South Dakota any SHTF rifle in 5.56 is wanting, you can see 5 miles on a clear day so a 308 is a better choice. I would say a light will do nothing but make you a target. In the Southeast a short handy carbine with very clean lines not to snag on the thick vegitation would be a must. In urban areas a light would be a requirment as would a shorter CQB style rifle. Terrian dictates the best choice, I think a KISS rifle will preform fine in SHTF, the army has used KISS rifles with no lights or optics since its creation. Look at where you live look at the terrian and the enviroment make an educated choice based off your budget, and what you plan to do, Hell if you just plan to bail and leave to go to friend or families rural location a rifle may be useless a pistol or PS90 may be the best choice. If you plan to stay put and defend the homestead then be smart a layered defense will prove far more effective than just you with your rifle. |
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cool a tech troll . My go to rifle has tacticool stuff hanging on it .Flaslight ,Sling and VFG along with a nice stock and maybe optics .Would this put me at a disadvantage in SHTF scenerio? More stuff to get in the way, weigh you down and more stuff to fail.
Yeah, my aimpoint weighs 4 ozs and with the batteries carried on the rifle will be dead in 10 years, it's practically useless. My light? Well that's a whole nother 4ozs of useless weight that will eventually go dead. Oh wait I can take it off at any time and it allows me to ID my target in the dark. Rail, vfg? I must be so stupid, what am I thinking, having something that's stronger than stock handguards for minimal weight increase and then adding an accessory that helps me get my gun on target faster. You keep your KISS* rifle, I'll keep my lightweight rifle that has better capabilities. Food for thought, what's more "KISS", lining up iron sights that are hard to see in the dark or putting a dot on the target and pulling the trigger? *see also: REDUCED CAPABILITY RIFLE See how much capacity your Aimpoint will have after EMP. In the event there is an EMP, I guess I'll be screwed, or... I'll take it off and use my BUIS. Will the EMP disable anything that resembles a flathead screwdriver as well? YOU JUST GOT PWNED IN THE FACE GREY!!!
If you want a refined battle weapon get the AR If you want a KISS gun get an AK. |
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Im currently in the process of building two KISS AR15s for SHTF.
1) Spikes Tactical Lower Rainier Ultramatch Billet Upper Larue 12" 1:8 polygonal barrel Standard front sight post Magpul Handguards Magpul Grip Larue Fixed Rear sight RRA Lower Parts Kit BCM Ion Bonded BCG Magpul UBR Spikes Tactical 9mm Buffer Wolff Extra Power Spring Aimpoint Micro T-1 in Larue Mount Magpul BAD Bill Springfield 4lb Trigger Job Surefire Flashlight AAC 51T Blackout 1) Spikes Tactical Lower BCM 11.5" Upper Standard front sight post Magpul Handguards Magpul Grip Larue Fixed Rear sight RRA Lower Parts Kit BCM Ion Bonded BCG Magpul UBR Spikes Tactical Buffer Wolff Extra Power Spring Aimpoint Micro T-1 in Larue Mount Magpul BAD Bill Springfield 4lb Trigger Job Surefire Flashlight AAC 51T Blackout Yeah, everyone says KISS rifles don't have optics, T1 on QD mount is perfect for a KISS Rifle. |
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cool a tech troll . My go to rifle has tacticool stuff hanging on it .Flaslight ,Sling and VFG along with a nice stock and maybe optics .Would this put me at a disadvantage in SHTF scenerio? More stuff to get in the way, weigh you down and more stuff to fail.
Yeah, my aimpoint weighs 4 ozs and with the batteries carried on the rifle will be dead in 10 years, it's practically useless. My light? Well that's a whole nother 4ozs of useless weight that will eventually go dead. Oh wait I can take it off at any time and it allows me to ID my target in the dark. Rail, vfg? I must be so stupid, what am I thinking, having something that's stronger than stock handguards for minimal weight increase and then adding an accessory that helps me get my gun on target faster. You keep your KISS* rifle, I'll keep my lightweight rifle that has better capabilities. Food for thought, what's more "KISS", lining up iron sights that are hard to see in the dark or putting a dot on the target and pulling the trigger? *see also: REDUCED CAPABILITY RIFLE See how much capacity your Aimpoint will have after EMP. That's why I have 2 ACOGs 
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Personally, my "SHTF" gun has a flashlight.
Everyone talks about "SHTF" as if they are going into a nuclear war. In reality, I think a burglar breaking into my home is far more likely. I don't have kids to worry about, so my plan if someone breaks in is to stay in my bedroom, gun pointed at the door, and hope the cops show up before I have to shoot anyone. If someone does come into my bedroom, having a flashlight will immediately let me know if it's a threat or just the cat. Plus, the ability to blind an attacker will give you a few extra milliseconds (or even seconds) to get your shot off while the other guy is just seeing the afterimage of your flashlight. I have no military or law enforcement experience, but from playing paintball, I know that being "gun up" with something that weighs ten pounds tire out your arms FAST. As a result, everything that goes on my rifle better be worth the weight. Someone mentioned a 4oz flashlight and a 4oz aimpoint. While those are definately useful, keep in mind that the combination is a half pound. On a six pound rifle, that's almost a 10% increase in weight, and the flashlight is out front where the torque seems to matter even more. |
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OP, I have two ARs: One is a decked-out M&P15T with an EOTech, rail, VFG, and light. It's my patrol rifle, and I've found the accessories make a huge difference in it's usefulness for it's intended duty. The tradeoff is added weight and bulk. It's not something I'd want to carry for long periods of time, and it tends to get hung up on everything from my uniform to the car seat. I can't imagine things would be any different in the woods.
Now, my second rifle is a KISS build using a CMMG midlength upper. The only accessories are a Hogue grip, CTR stock, and a sling. (I don't even think the grip and stock count, since they replaced stock parts.) It has a RRA stand-alone A2 type rear sight, no optics. I built it as a KISS/SHTF/beater gun, but it's reliable enough that I've qualified for my agency with it in the past. I wouldn't feel "undergunned" using it as a patrol rifle, but I would be at a tactical disadvantage using it as a patrol rifle (from my experience). I do enjoy shooting the KISS gun a lot more than the duty gun, however, because the KISS gun is so much lighter and handier. I could carry it all day and not get tired. It handles well and it's easy to move around. My only future plans for it at this point is to add an Aimpoint down the road. I say try things out and see what you feel is the best balance for you and your intended use of the rifle. Some people like all the goodies on their gun, others don't. To me it's a personal decision. |
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I dont get the weight thing............
Sure a 6lbs rifle is great but you can carry a 12lbs rifle all day no problem In Iraq I carried an m4 with a M203, aimpoint, paq-4 and a light, we walked a 5mile partol 3 times a day in Karbala I never once thought the rifle is too heavy, I was also carrying the Sapi plates, 4 QTs of water, 10lbs of demo, and extra ammo for the GPMG. All in all around 80lbs I am no body builder so whats all the bitching about a 6lbs rifle vs a 6.8 lbs rifle, its bull. |
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See how much capacity your Aimpoint will have after EMP. Oh please can we stop with this EMP crap it's WAY overblown - especially for something like an Aimpoint. For something like an Aimpoint to be fried the field strength would have to be fairly large - large enough that you would have to be close enough for a permanant sun tan. You'd have bigger issues to worry about. And in the event of anything short of an all-out nuclear war - The Aimpoint users worst case scenario is iron-only user's best case scenario. So in 99.999.999 out of 100,000,000 the Aimpoint user will be better off. with a worse case scenario of them being the same as the irons-only user. |
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I dont get the weight thing............ Sure a 6lbs rifle is great but you can carry a 12lbs rifle all day no problem In Iraq I carried an m4 with a M203, aimpoint, paq-4 and a light, we walked a 5mile partol 3 times a day in Karbala I never once thought the rifle is too heavy, I was also carrying the Sapi plates, 4 QTs of water, 10lbs of demo, and extra ammo for the GPMG. All in all around 80lbs I am no body builder so whats all the bitching about a 6lbs rifle vs a 6.8 lbs rifle, its bull. First off, thank you for your service. Second, I agree with you. However, your perspective is coming from someone who has been conditioned to carrying heavy loads for long distances. (At least, I'm assumind that. ) You're probably in better shape than a lot of our membership (and I certainly don't mean that offensively to any ARFcommers). A lot of guys here aren't conditioned to doing that––hell, I don't think I could do it right now with the weight you're talking about. Therefore, it's not a bad idea to shave weight where you can; for some people that's removing add-ons to their weapon.
Your post speaks volumes (to me anyway) about getting in/staying in good shape. 
ETA: Reading your post again, I have to laugh at all of those who buy all this high-speed armor and gear, and then never wear it or train with it. (I have been guilty of that myself, BTW.) |
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I dont get the weight thing............ Sure a 6lbs rifle is great but you can carry a 12lbs rifle all day no problem In Iraq I carried an m4 with a M203, aimpoint, paq-4 and a light, we walked a 5mile partol 3 times a day in Karbala I never once thought the rifle is too heavy, I was also carrying the Sapi plates, 4 QTs of water, 10lbs of demo, and extra ammo for the GPMG. All in all around 80lbs I am no body builder so whats all the bitching about a 6lbs rifle vs a 6.8 lbs rifle, its bull. First off, thank you for your service. Second, I agree with you. However, your perspective is coming from someone who has been conditioned to carrying heavy loads for long distances. (At least, I'm assumind that. ) You're probably in better shape than a lot of our membership (and I certainly don't mean that offensively to any ARFcommers). A lot of guys here aren't conditioned to doing that––hell, I don't think I could do it right now with the weight you're talking about. Therefore, it's not a bad idea to shave weight where you can; for some people that's removing add-ons to their weapon.
Your post speaks volumes (to me anyway) about getting in/staying in good shape.
ETA: Reading your post again, I have to laugh at all of those who buy all this high-speed armor and gear, and then never wear it or train with it. (I have been guilty of that myself, BTW.) Sling, light, Aimpoint. As KISS as I get.
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I dont get the weight thing............ Sure a 6lbs rifle is great but you can carry a 12lbs rifle all day no problem In Iraq I carried an m4 with a M203, aimpoint, paq-4 and a light, we walked a 5mile partol 3 times a day in Karbala I never once thought the rifle is too heavy, I was also carrying the Sapi plates, 4 QTs of water, 10lbs of demo, and extra ammo for the GPMG. All in all around 80lbs I am no body builder so whats all the bitching about a 6lbs rifle vs a 6.8 lbs rifle, its bull. exactly!! adding things like lights, optics, VFG's, etc.. can make your weapon more capable. why would you limit yourself to a less capable system? it's not like we're carrying around Garands or M14's. hell, what's a Thompson weigh with a drum mag? why all the tears over a pound or two? my latest SHTF, go to rifle. it weighs almost nothing and can be used anywhere. still missing the T1..... 
this is also my test platform. in the pic it had the MagPul ASAP, i'm not a fan so it's gone. i've not yet made up my mind on the BAD. |
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For the purposes you describe, this is as "KISS" as I'd go. http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z96/M4builder/ARFCOM/100_0437.jpg What model is that Springfield Armory in the pic? Loaded Model. The CT grips were added by me. |
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I dont get the weight thing............ Sure a 6lbs rifle is great but you can carry a 12lbs rifle all day no problem In Iraq I carried an m4 with a M203, aimpoint, paq-4 and a light, we walked a 5mile partol 3 times a day in Karbala I never once thought the rifle is too heavy, I was also carrying the Sapi plates, 4 QTs of water, 10lbs of demo, and extra ammo for the GPMG. All in all around 80lbs I am no body builder so whats all the bitching about a 6lbs rifle vs a 6.8 lbs rifle, its bull. First off, thank you for your service. Second, I agree with you. However, your perspective is coming from someone who has been conditioned to carrying heavy loads for long distances. (At least, I'm assumind that. ) You're probably in better shape than a lot of our membership (and I certainly don't mean that offensively to any ARFcommers). A lot of guys here aren't conditioned to doing that––hell, I don't think I could do it right now with the weight you're talking about. Therefore, it's not a bad idea to shave weight where you can; for some people that's removing add-ons to their weapon.
Your post speaks volumes (to me anyway) about getting in/staying in good shape.
ETA: Reading your post again, I have to laugh at all of those who buy all this high-speed armor and gear, and then never wear it or train with it. (I have been guilty of that myself, BTW.) Sling, light, Aimpoint. As KISS as I get. Sounds nice! I guess I'm just too cheap to buy another light for a gun I built as a "beater."
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my shff AR is an A2 style Colt....I own several ARs that are equiped with rails, acog, scopes, etc, I just feel so much more comfortable with the weight and simplicity and reliability of the Colt.
got some good training with it in yesterday, mostly did reload drills while firing at transition targets I put up in the woods. I suggest it to anyone who wants to try, keep one magazine empty or loaded with one or two rounds, then fire until the bolt locks back to the rear, change mags as fast as you can, switch and repeat. you get a ton of training and only fire like 100 rounds. |
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I know tacticool is all the rage with AR's these days,and can give you quite the advantage.I was wondering how many of you have a "bare bones" all stock AR as your "go to" gun?Most AK's i see don't have all the bells and whistles hanging off them,but the AR's do.Just wondering??? AKs are limited by two things: 1) They have weak aftermarket support compared to ARs 2) As a group, their owners are more frugal than AR owners Given these limitations, the end-products will be different. |
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I know tacticool is all the rage with AR's these days,and can give you quite the advantage.I was wondering how many of you have a "bare bones" all stock AR as your "go to" gun?Most AK's i see don't have all the bells and whistles hanging off them,but the AR's do.Just wondering??? AKs are limited by two things: 1) They have weak aftermarket support compared to ARs 2) As a group, their owners are more frugal than AR owners Given these limitations, the end-products will be different. Then you have the upper end of the "group", less Frugal Strat81 has some Darkside in him too
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When the SHTF...I'll grab anything that I have ammo for. Don't care what's hung on it or how heavy or light it is. Might even find other uses for some of the stuff hung on the rifle or I'll take it off along the way. I don't think I'll worry to much about a few lbs mass when it's a true SHTF situ. And me and the kids will be hauling as many guns and as much ammo we can carry and dropping things along the way if we can't manage.
So any gun that goes bang and a lot of ammo plus some basic tools that I always have in my range bag. No matter what you plan for when the SHTF you will not be prepared enough, but the thing that will give you an edge is your resourcefulness and a keen survival instinct. Thank goodness the probability of the ultimate SHTF situ is low. |
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When the SHTF...I'll grab anything that I have ammo for. Don't care what's hung on it or how heavy or light it is. Might even find other uses for some of the stuff hung on the rifle or I'll take it off along the way. I don't think I'll worry to much about a few lbs mass when it's a true SHTF situ. And me and the kids will be hauling as many guns and as much ammo we can carry and dropping things along the way if we can't manage. So any gun that goes bang and a lot of ammo plus some basic tools that I always have in my range bag. No matter what you plan for when the SHTF you will not be prepared enough, but the thing that will give you an edge is your resourcefulness and a keen survival instinct. Thank goodness the probability of the ultimate SHTF situ is low. Nice post, at least refers to me 
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I know tacticool is all the rage with AR's these days,and can give you quite the advantage.I was wondering how many of you have a "bare bones" all stock AR as your "go to" gun?Most AK's i see don't have all the bells and whistles hanging off them,but the AR's do.Just wondering??? AKs are limited by two things: 1) They have weak aftermarket support compared to ARs 2) As a group, their owners are more frugal than AR owners Given these limitations, the end-products will be different. Then you have the upper end of the "group", less Frugal Strat81 has some Darkside in him too
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/Rube7979/krink3.jpg Outlier.
It's interesting though, because on the AR boards, the group tends to be a bit more generous with their spending. The result is that someone will say "I just bought rifle ABC for $xxx." And someone will reply, "if you spent just $yyy more, you could have gotten TUV rifle. Enjoy your shit rifle." The replier doesn't necessarily realize that $yyy might be BIG bucks to the original poster. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SHTF AR question? (Page 1 of 2)
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