AR Sponsor
Posted: 7/19/2009 12:42:57 PM EDT
| I have discussed this with several AR15 owners and we all have slightly different ideas on this. What is the definition of a KISS rifle? How much stuff can one put on the rifle and it still be a KISS. I say any thing that has batteries makes it no longer a KISS. I am on the fence on optics but arguements can be made either way there. So what does the Hive mind think? How far can you go and still have a KISS rifle? |
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I have discussed this with several AR15 owners and we all have slightly different ideas on this. What is the definition of a KISS rifle? How much stuff can one put on the rifle and it still be a KISS. I say any thing that has batteries makes it no longer a KISS. I am on the fence on optics but arguements can be made either way there. So what does the Hive mind think? How far can you go and still have a KISS rifle? KISS = KISS I remember saying KISS in 2001 and one of the guys here thought I was talking the Rock Group. LOL 
After 8years of using a AIMPOINT I consider it KISS MY GO TO is a Rack grade LMT M4 D2000 Surefire G2 light & VT Mount ( best mount for a G2 ) Aimpoint ml2 & larue mount PR-4 mount & BH 1pt sling Old School KAC RAS & FVG ARMS 40Ls.p. BUIS a little compass wich mounts on my sling (since I moved to SWFL and dont know the place as well as my country home )
Only reason I added a rail was for a surefire light only so it aint really a must have on a SHTF carbine BTW My First carbine was a A1 plain jane |
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To me a KISS rifle is one with original parts, iron sights and maybe a sling I really don't think A1, A2 or flattop upper really matters. KISS is mainly about function not looks. +1 No crap hanging all over the rifle. Just iron sights (of any type). No batteries allowed. |
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Just curious but.... WHY KISS? Now I hate seeing a ar that has been adorn with so much equipment that it looks like a toy my boy would play in a new star wars video game but, and yes there is a but, why not add something to your rifle like a aimpoint or etc. that will help with faster target acquisition or a better grip or a better stock for a more natural feel and better cheek weld, in my humble opinion these are all just as important as the function of the rifle. Just1moreAR said that KISS is about function not looks but a good scope isn't neccesarily looks but helps improve the overall function of the weapon. If you can aquire more targets faster and more effectively with a red dot or acog wouldn't this improve overall accuarcy? If you could add something to your rifle without adding alot of weight and it having the possibilty of saving your life one day, wouldn't it be worth it?
PS. not trying to start a fight with yall just wanted to give you something to think about |
| To me a KISS has the basic handguards, inexpensive stock that the owner prefers (CTR, ACE, A2, MOE), iron sights and nothing hanging off the gun. Just something to take to the range, pull the trigger and know it's going to go bang every time. I'm going to put an EOTech on my KISS for better target aquisition as stated before. I don't think changing out the grip makes it too fancy just a preferance for someone with bigger hands. |
| Hmmmm. Well, does KISS mean "keep it simple stupid" or "keep it simply stock"? I'd define the first as iron sights, no electronics including flashlight, laser, red dot, or vertical foregrip, can or fake can. Keep it simply stock......just the way it was when taken out of the box with the Exception possibly being the M&P 15 Magpul rifle. lol . My too much Magpul makes it not stock but definately still simple. |
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You can not set a hard definition of what is or is not considered a KISS weapon.
What one person considers to be KISS, might not be considered KISS to another. Only the weapons owner can determine whether that weapon falls under the KISS concept. ETA: My KISS carbine. 
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There's a lengthy thread about this here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=304444 |
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Many on this board confuse KISS with retro............
That said a red dot can be Kiss IMO especially since few would argue tridium sights are not KISS In my opinion a KISS rifle should be capable of preforming in thick triple canopy jungle with the draw monster tearing at gear on every step. So light weight, no snags, no wires, capable of night time 0% illum aiming is a must....lights like the TLR-1 can be used if done right but anything that will snag is a NO-GO, I also prefer 20 round mags on a KISS rifle for cleaner lines Things that kill KISS status IMO 1. Lasers IR or Visable 2. QD mounts on lights or optics 3. 3 point slings 4. Rails 5. Heavy barrels 6. flash hiders with open prongs or snaging points 7. Flip up front sights 8. variable power scopes like 3-9x though 1-4x may be an exception if done right |
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It's irrelevant/arbitrary at this point what KISS means. I, however, have an opinion.
I know what KISS is when I see it. It doesn't hurt to have low cost, military style parts such as original handguards. In my opinion it must also have iron sights. In the KISS picture thread I think I saw some with an optic, light, and modern furniture. I think with any of those features some sort of like has crossed. I consider my Colt 6520 to be KISS of course. It's not that it's better or worse than an AR with add-ons; it's a different entity with the classification KISS. 
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For me KISS means there's no extra stuff hanging on the gun that you have to choose between before engaging goblins.
That tends towards iron sights (don't have to remember to turn them on or open covers) and discourages lights and lasers (that need turned on and might not have good batteries). A 4-rail for comfort or to get a free float is still KISS as long as every inch isn't covered in do-dads. That said, my home defense gun has an M4s and a Surefire light; but I don't call it KISS. |
| We already have a 39 page photo thread devoted to this concept: HERE |
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IMO, KISS=Simple. If there's stuff that's easily adjustable yet provides little value-add or provides increased potential to screw you when you need your gun most then its not KISS. Aimpoints are KISS. A2 sights are not KISS. Two point slings are KISS. Forward assists are not KISS. YMMV.
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| Thanks for all of the oppinions so far. KISS seems to be more of an individual thing. I want to keep my rifle KISS but add some things to improve the ability of the rifle to help me. so far I have put a single point sling on it and up graded the grip. Night sites or high visibility sights are next and I also want to put some sort of broom handle on front. Any thing beyond that I think that I will no longer have a KISS. Thanks for the input. |
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I think KISS refers to electronic gadgetry that can fail. Modifications made to the rifle involving handguards, pistol grip, stock, replacement iron sights or trigger mechanism still qualify as KISS because they are direct replacements of MILSPEC parts to better suit the individual shooter. When you begin adding gear (rather than replacing stock gear) you fall out of the KISS spectrum.
One thing that hasn't been discussed yet is the application for which the rifle is intended. If the rifle is to be used by LE as a sniper weapon then a scope is mandatory and would fall under KISS. Same goes for quick aim optics if the rifle is intended for use as a tactical entry weapon. I like my plain old Colt LE6920 as is. If I ever need it to defend my home I know I wont be using or needing sights. I cannot ever imagine a situation where I would need to conduct a forced tactical entry of a structure so I don't need laser. I would say that a rifle is KISS if it contains only the gear needed to best fit the need for which the rifle is intended. Here's mine hanging behind the door where I keep it... http://alfazed.com/family-friends/tln/6920le.jpg |
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