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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - does BCM make a good upper? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/17/2009 2:08:52 PM EDT
considering this upper. do they make thier own asemblies or is it subbed out? These upper groups comes installed with the Daniel Defense LITE Rail 12.0 Handguard, removal of the front sight base, and barrel dimpled for strong install of MI Low Profile Gas Block.
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Quoted: better than RRA? they seem to cost more as this comess WITHOUT the bolt and charging handle. They run circles around RRA. BCM is the highest quality on par with Colt... 2nd only to Noveske. I don't want to bring up the chart... But if you look at it... BCM is WAY up there. RRA is lacking... |
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After next week, I plan on actually working up the handload for my current BCM middie, I'll take it out to 300m and see what kind of groupings i can get out of a properly tuned load... Right now with Black Hills, Federal, PRVI match ammos, I've gotten it to hold damn near a 1.5moa 10shot group at 100m... I think i can crack MOA if I run some 69SMK's with some varget (or at least i can hope...) but hell, Mine has over 1k through it now (3 hard sessions)... and hasnt had an issue yet... |
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+1 for another BCM believer. Bought a CMMG M4LE, less than a week later I decided to sell it off and get a BCM middy.
I agree, super high quality, although they can't seem to make them fast enough! 
Oh, and the free BCM hat is a nice tough too :) Warning to whoever mentioned they were watching their email for the 16" carbine, I didn't get an email the last two times their middy's have been available, luckily the first time I was browsing the forums when someone posted their available up. Methinks browsing the forums are a better bet than checking your email. |
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better than RRA? they seem to cost more as this comess WITHOUT the bolt and charging handle. They run circles around RRA. BCM is the highest quality on par with Colt... 2nd only to Noveske. I don't want to bring up the chart... But if you look at it... BCM is WAY up there. RRA is lacking... |
I have 4 BCM uppers and think they are superb. I have read that Pat Rogers thinks very highly of them also . he would be a very good judge of the quality and relieability of a weapon ,and he has seen a lot of AR's go through his class ,and he knows a thing or 2 about AR's failing under hard use . the fact he says they are GTG is quite an endorsement of them . check what I found on the net by Pat Rogers below .
#12 –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– Pat _Rogers Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 166 Seeing that i have been mentioned, i'll be happy to give you my .25 worth. I have 5 BCM uppers, to include a mid length that came in 3 weeks ago. I consider these uppers to excellent in every respect. Additionally, in a business full of people with less than sterling ethics, Paul is top shelf. As an example, as he ordered new barrel steel 1.5 years ago he recieved the cert with the steel. He had the steel tested by an independent lab, and while it was 4150, it did not meet 11595E- as it was supposed to be. He could have used it and no one would have been the wiser- except for him. It took him this long to get correctly certified steel and made into barrels, as well as square away the issues with the non cert steel. Paul also sells LMT products. As stated, i use and recommend to others the following, in no particular order; Colt LMT Defensive Edge Larue Noveske BCM (uppers) Later S&W M&P LE guns For pistons HK (not normally available) LWRCI My opinions, based on my experiences. Your requirements may be different. __________________ S/F Pat sends Never forget those who died Never forget those who killed them www.eagtactical.com Pat _Rogers View Public Profile Find More Posts by Pat _Rogers 08-26-2008, 10:18 |
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better than RRA? they seem to cost more as this comess WITHOUT the bolt and charging handle. 
RRA couldn't hold a candle to BCM. Why is that specifically? Don't make him grab the chart... I'm not sure if you were trying to be a smart ass or not and if so, you FAIL. 
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better than RRA? they seem to cost more as this comess WITHOUT the bolt and charging handle.
RRA couldn't hold a candle to BCM. Why is that specifically? Don't make him grab the chart... I'm not sure if you were trying to be a smart ass or not and if so, you FAIL. Yeah, didn't work. Oh well, I live to try again another day! 
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better than RRA? they seem to cost more as this comess WITHOUT the bolt and charging handle.
RRA couldn't hold a candle to BCM. Why is that specifically? How much time do you have? I would seriously like to hear somespecifics. Thanks. |
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better than RRA? they seem to cost more as this comess WITHOUT the bolt and charging handle.
RRA couldn't hold a candle to BCM. Why is that specifically? End of thread. Goto "The Chart" and run the BCM info up against it... then decide if $485 plus another $160 for a charging handle and bolt is worth it. M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension M4 Feed Ramp Flat Top Receiver In developing the USGI M4 carbine as one of the primary weapons for today’s infantry, some modifications were performed to the original M16 platform to enhance the reliability of the shorter barreled carbines. With the shorter carbine gas system and the increased gas port pressure, the carbine cycled faster, and at times the cycle rate could be faster than the magazine would feed ammunition. One of the modifications done to increase reliable feeding included enhancing the angle and the length of the feed ramps. This USGI modification was done to both the barrel extension and the upper receiver, creating a longer and steeper feed ramp. These Mil-Spec M4 feed ramps are part of the original CNC manufacturing process. As a result, the factory machined M4 feed ramps on the receiver are hard coat anodized which adds significant strength to the aluminum. This feature is offered on all BCM uppers and all BCM barrels. T-Marked Upper Receiver The contemporary M16/M4 rifle is built around the concept of modularity. All of the BCM flat top uppers feature a USGI type laser etched T-marks to provide addressing for the remounting of tactical accessories such as optics, laser sights, etc. This enables the weapon platform to be easily configured and then accurately reconfigured for each specific mission. USGI 1/7 Twist Rate The USGI 1/7 twist rate of all of the BCM barrels is the preferred twist rate by most professional infantryman. This twist rate has proven very versatile and can effectively run the new heavier 5.56 ammo that is hugely popular with military and private security personal for its’ superior ballistics. Mil-Spec Barrel Steel (Mil-B-11595E) BCM barrel steel is Mil-Spec per MIL-B-11595E. The 4150 grade (CMV) of steel is a Mil-Spec steel used in the USGI M16 family of rifles; it is stronger and will last longer than the typical barrels offered in the commercial market. The Mil-Spec grade 4150 gets its’ additional strength and rigidity from an increase in carbon and/or vanadium in the alloy. This will offer increased barrel life and performance through use in all types of extreme environments and temperatures. Chrome Bore and Chamber One of the first modifications that were made to the original M16 in the mid 1960’s was the addition of the chrome lined bore and chamber. It is now a world wide standard in the industry for a battle rifle. The chrome bore and chamber is harder than the barrel steel and on the USGI M16/M4 rifles will aid in chambering, extraction, and reliability. It increases velocity, and also resist against fouling and corrosion from extended use in the field. This gives the end user a longer barrel life with less required time in maintenance and cleaning. Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish Barrels are parkerized with the manganese phosphate finish (Mil-Spec A-A-59267). Military specifications also state that the entire barrel surface is phosphate finished to create a porous surface to absorb oil as to resist against corrosion from the elements. BCM barrels are phosphated before installation of front sights. This is a much more extensive assembly operation, but insures that the entire barrel is finished and protected . . .even under the front sight base. 5.56 NATO Chambers The USGI 5.56 NATO chamber is the best choice for effective deployment, reliability, and compatibility, of higher chamber pressures of military ammo. Mil-Spec F-Marked Forged Front Sight Bases Mil-Spec for rifles issued to the troops require taller front sight bases on all flat top AR rifles. Many commercial offerings use M16A2 height front sight bases on all of their barrels regardless of what type of upper it is installed on. As a result, owners of rifles and carbines with the flat top receiver configuration can have problems getting a proper 'zero' for elevation with Mil-Spec back up iron sights. As all of the BCM uppers are built for flat top uppers, all have the proper Mil-Spec F marked front sight base to insure the correct height for iron sight zeroing when using military iron sights. Mil-Spec taper pins secure the forged front sight base with the sling swivel secured by tubular rivets. Government Barrel Profiles Duty rifles are built to be carried - day in and day out. The USGI barrel profiles (often referred to as the Government Profile) enable the operator to carry their weapon for longer periods of time and deploy them faster than the heavier commercial H-Barrel counterparts. The government profile barrel is also compatible with the current M203 mounting systems. HPT / MP Inspected Barrels Military specifications require that barrels undergo a HPT (High-Pressure Test) load as a part of quality assurance procedures. Commonly referred to as a proof load, the M197 HPT is rated for 70,000 psi. BCM barrels are proof loaded and then MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) to detect any possible flaws in the barrels surface. The barrels are MP inspected with both circular and longitudinal magnetic fields per ASTME1444-01 (current Mil-Spec) to assure a high quality finished product. All BCM barrels are marked HP MP as our proof load marking. Copyright © 2005-2009 Bravo Company MFG, Inc. Features M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension (USGI) M4 Feed Ramp Flat Top Receiver T-Marked Upper Receivers USGI 1/7 Twist Rates USGI 5.56 NATO Chambers Mil-Spec 11595E - Barrel Steel (CMV) Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish Mil-Spec F-Marked Forged Front Sights USGI Government Profile Barrels HPT (High Pressure Test) Barrels MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Barrels How much time do you have? I would seriously like to hear somespecifics. Thanks. |
| I appreciate the response, but all I'm seeing are specs for the BCM. How do the RRA specs stack up? I'm not seeing why RRA can't hold a candle to BCM. I'd like to hear some specific data to quantify the original statement that RRAs are notably inferior to the BCM and not just different. Personally, I tend to agree with the other poster. BCM seems to be the current flavor of the month. I don't doubt that they are excellent uppers, but I'm not going to be easily convinced that they vastly superior to any of the other quality uppers /complete rifles out there. Just my 2 cents. |
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I appreciate the response, but all I'm seeing are specs for the BCM. How do the RRA specs stack up? I'm not seeing why RRA can't hold a candle to BCM. I'd like to hear some specific data to quantify the original statement that RRAs are notably inferior to the BCM and not just different. Personally, I tend to agree with the other poster. BCM seems to be the current flavor of the month. I don't doubt that they are excellent uppers, but I'm not going to be easily convinced that they vastly superior to any of the other quality uppers /complete rifles out there. Just my 2 cents. (IN OTHER WORDS.)Crap... i could of had a MUCH HIGHER QUAILTY upper then my RR for about the same coin.Now im going to trade off my RockBOTTOM.. err River for a BCM.  
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I appreciate the response, but all I'm seeing are specs for the BCM. How do the RRA specs stack up? I'm not seeing why RRA can't hold a candle to BCM. I'd like to hear some specific data to quantify the original statement that RRAs are notably inferior to the BCM and not just different. Personally, I tend to agree with the other poster. BCM seems to be the current flavor of the month. I don't doubt that they are excellent uppers, but I'm not going to be easily convinced that they vastly superior to any of the other quality uppers /complete rifles out there. Just my 2 cents. The only thing RR has that a BCM has is a Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish,Chrome Bore and Chamber (an option on a RR).That's IT( thats on the list that Righteous put up).RR cuts corners to get their rifles out as fast as they can to the hobby shooters. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I appreciate the response, but all I'm seeing are specs for the BCM. How do the RRA specs stack up? I'm not seeing why RRA can't hold a candle to BCM. I'd like to hear some specific data to quantify the original statement that RRAs are notably inferior to the BCM and not just different. Personally, I tend to agree with the other poster. BCM seems to be the current flavor of the month. I don't doubt that they are excellent uppers, but I'm not going to be easily convinced that they vastly superior to any of the other quality uppers /complete rifles out there. Just my 2 cents. The only thing RR has that a BCM has is a Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish,Chrome Bore and Chamber (an option on a RR).That's IT( thats on the list that Righteous put up).RR cuts corners to get their rifles out as fast as they can to the hobby shooters. This.... They do almost nothing right... Seriously, please don't make me go get the chart... Oh, fine, I will.  BCM is a Colt (for purposes of comparison to RRA)... This chart may be old, since I'm pretty sure Colt uses the correct FCG pins now. |
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I appreciate the response, but all I'm seeing are specs for the BCM. How do the RRA specs stack up? I'm not seeing why RRA can't hold a candle to BCM. I'd like to hear some specific data to quantify the original statement that RRAs are notably inferior to the BCM and not just different. Personally, I tend to agree with the other poster. BCM seems to be the current flavor of the month. I don't doubt that they are excellent uppers, but I'm not going to be easily convinced that they vastly superior to any of the other quality uppers /complete rifles out there. Just my 2 cents. The only thing RR has that a BCM has is a Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish,Chrome Bore and Chamber (an option on a RR).That's IT( thats on the list that Righteous put up).RR cuts corners to get their rifles out as fast as they can to the hobby shooters. This.... They do almost nothing right... Seriously, please don't make me go get the chart... Oh, fine, I will. http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/Lamarbrog/chart.jpg BCM is a Colt (for purposes of comparison to RRA)... This chart may be old, since I'm pretty sure Colt uses the correct FCG pins now. Correct on both counts. |
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I appreciate the response, but all I'm seeing are specs for the BCM. How do the RRA specs stack up? I'm not seeing why RRA can't hold a candle to BCM. I'd like to hear some specific data to quantify the original statement that RRAs are notably inferior to the BCM and not just different. Personally, I tend to agree with the other poster. BCM seems to be the current flavor of the month. I don't doubt that they are excellent uppers, but I'm not going to be easily convinced that they vastly superior to any of the other quality uppers /complete rifles out there. Just my 2 cents. The only thing RR has that a BCM has is a Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish,Chrome Bore and Chamber (an option on a RR).That's IT( thats on the list that Righteous put up).RR cuts corners to get their rifles out as fast as they can to the hobby shooters. This.... They do almost nothing right... Seriously, please don't make me go get the chart... Oh, fine, I will. http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/Lamarbrog/chart.jpg BCM is a Colt (for purposes of comparison to RRA)... This chart may be old, since I'm pretty sure Colt uses the correct FCG pins now.      
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I have the BCM with the 12 DD rail you describe in the OP. I love it. Fit and finsh is great. Get you a BCM BCG and charging handle to go with it! why is it not inlcuded? since the test fire it why dont they include those installed? as a newbie I would like an upper I can lock on an dgo. |
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better than RRA? they seem to cost more as this comess WITHOUT the bolt and charging handle. They run circles around RRA. BCM is the highest quality on par with Colt... 2nd only to Noveske. I don't want to bring up the chart... But if you look at it... BCM is WAY up there. RRA is lacking... I have both RRA and BCM middy uppers. Both have a very nice finish, and quality is top notch. The BCM, however, has better barrel steel, and a faster twist. I think its unfair to call RRA "lacking" though. |
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better than RRA? they seem to cost more as this comess WITHOUT the bolt and charging handle. They run circles around RRA. BCM is the highest quality on par with Colt... 2nd only to Noveske. I don't want to bring up the chart... But if you look at it... BCM is WAY up there. RRA is lacking... I have both RRA and BCM middy uppers. Both have a very nice finish, and quality is top notch. The BCM, however, has better barrel steel, and a faster twist. I think its unfair to call RRA "lacking" though. Why? Better steel, correct twist rate, parkerizing under the FSB, F marked FSB, the feed ramps aren't dremeled by Bubba... |
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better than RRA? they seem to cost more as this comess WITHOUT the bolt and charging handle. They run circles around RRA. BCM is the highest quality on par with Colt... 2nd only to Noveske. I don't want to bring up the chart... But if you look at it... BCM is WAY up there. RRA is lacking... I have both RRA and BCM middy uppers. Both have a very nice finish, and quality is top notch. The BCM, however, has better barrel steel, and a faster twist. I think its unfair to call RRA "lacking" though. Why? Better steel, correct twist rate, parkerizing under the FSB, F marked FSB, the feed ramps aren't dremeled by Bubba... +1 Many people instantly dismiss the parking under the fsb, but I don't at all. The way I see it, if a company goes the extra mile on something that some claim to be trivial, it gives me alot more confidence in the time and effort they put into the undeniably important areas. Its attention to detail. Bravo has it, RRA doesn't. |
I also have both and other than the QA testing, I don’t see a lot of difference. I see a lot of people throwing up impressive looking charts without much thought given to where the data comes from. The chart above clearly states it’s a culmination of data from various sources. Sources such as some of the experts we have on this forum (myself included).
The chart above states that RRA does not have properly staked carriers. How is it possible to arrive at that conclusion with so much variance from weapon to weapon? It also states that RRA does not have 1/7 twist rate or chrome bore?? The data and it’s presentation is clearly skewed and not representative of all RRA weapons. I’m not trying to argue that RRA is better than any other brand, because it’s not. But it’s far from “lacking” in my opinion. One other thing. Impressive chart or not. I will never believe that a Charles Daly is better than my RRA… never. 
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I also have both and other than the QA testing, I don’t see a lot of difference. I see a lot of people throwing up impressing looking charts without much thought given to where the data comes from. The chart above clearly states it’s a culmination of data from various sources. Sources such as some of the experts we have on this forum (myself included).
The chart above states that RRA does not have properly staked carriers. How is it possible to arrive at that conclusion with so much variance from weapon to weapon? It also states that RRA does not have 1/7 twist rate or chrome bore?? The data and it’s presentation is clearly skewed and not representative of all RRA weapons. I’m not trying to argue that RRA is better than any other brand, because it’s not. But it’s far from “lacking” in my opinion. One other thing. Impressive chart or not. I will never believe that a Charles Daly is better than my RRA… never.
No, it is not skewed. It lists a specific model, the "M4 clone" and compares it. RRA stakes all carriers the same, it is how they build them. You can believe all you want to justify how you spent your money but facts are facts. Get over it.
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I also have both and other than the QA testing, I don’t see a lot of difference. I see a lot of people throwing up impressing looking charts without much thought given to where the data comes from. The chart above clearly states it’s a culmination of data from various sources. Sources such as some of the experts we have on this forum (myself included).
The chart above states that RRA does not have properly staked carriers. How is it possible to arrive at that conclusion with so much variance from weapon to weapon? It also states that RRA does not have 1/7 twist rate or chrome bore?? The data and it’s presentation is clearly skewed and not representative of all RRA weapons. I’m not trying to argue that RRA is better than any other brand, because it’s not. But it’s far from “lacking” in my opinion. One other thing. Impressive chart or not. I will never believe that a Charles Daly is better than my RRA… never.
No, it is not skewed. It lists a specific model, the "M4 clone" and compares it. RRA stakes all carriers the same, it is how they build them. You can believe all you want to justify how you spent your money but facts are facts. Get over it. Well, since 3 of my RRA M4 clones have 1/7 chrome bores and what I consider to be properly staked carriers... I got over it the moment I saw the chart. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - does BCM make a good upper? (Page 1 of 2)
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