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Posted: 5/3/2009 8:27:54 AM EDT
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I did a search, but I couldn't find what I needed.
Is one that much better than the other? Thanks! |
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You mean steel vs. chrome lined steel?
Chrome lining makes military barrels more resistance to rust under conditions which cause rust. Think car bumper. Also, no match barrels (and no stainless steel barrels) are chromed lined; however, most military barrels are chrome lined. So if you plan on slogging it out through the jungles of Maryland, you may need chrome lining. If you plan on shooting at the range and then cleaning your gun, it won't matter. |
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Quoted: That is completly incorrect.Well this is an English lesson. Chrome lined Chrome Molly Two different terms for the same thing. One is the same as the other. One is a subset of the other. Chrome Molly is a plain carbon steel barrel, not unlike most other barrels on sporting arms. Chrome Lines is a chrome molly barrel with chome bonded to the bore. It not only protects against corrosion, it increases barrel life and improves extraction (thus aiding in reliablity). |
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They are not the same. Chrome Moly means chromium moludenum. Most barrels are made of Chrome Moly steel. (It's an alloy that you find it in bike frames and other things too). Chrome lined means the bore and chamber have been plated with chromium. It makes the bore harder (and last longer) and easier to clean. Some say non-chrome lined barrels are more accurate. For most people, I don't think you will notice the difference. So, you can have a chrome moly, chrome lined barrel. Some barrels are also made of stainless steel (again, more on the accuracy side of things). You will see 410 and 416 stainless (410 being more corrosion resistant). You may also see "4140" and "4150" steel. Best explanation is this is the hardness / quallity of the steel. 4150 is mil-spec and better. Used by Colt, LMT, BCM, etc. Other less $$ manufacturers use 4140. My advice, unless you are buying a very accurate tack driver type rifle, stick with chrome lined barrels. You will get a better barrel life out of them and they will be easier to clean. If it doesn't specifically say "chrome lined", it isn't chrome lined. |
Thanks for the help... er, I think...
I did some further research and found this link to add some mud to the water... LINK |
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Quoted:
They are not the same. Chrome Moly means chromium moludenum. Most barrels are made of Chrome Moly steel. (It's an alloy that you find it in bike frames and other things too). Chrome lined means the bore and chamber have been plated with chromium. It makes the bore harder (and last longer) and easier to clean. Some say non-chrome lined barrels are more accurate. For most people, I don't think you will notice the difference. So, you can have a chrome moly, chrome lined barrel. Some barrels are also made of stainless steel (again, more on the accuracy side of things). You will see 410 and 416 stainless (410 being more corrosion resistant). You may also see "4140" and "4150" steel. Best explanation is this is the hardness / quallity of the steel. 4150 is mil-spec and better. Used by Colt, LMT, BCM, etc. Other less $$ manufacturers use 4140. My advice, unless you are buying a very accurate tack driver type rifle, stick with chrome lined barrels. You will get a better barrel life out of them and they will be easier to clean. If it doesn't specifically say "chrome lined", it isn't chrome lined. +1 |
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Quoted: I'd suggest reading that ENTIRE thread. The OP goes into the decrative chrome process, not the industrial one that is used for AR barrels.Thanks for the help... er, I think... I did some further research and found this link to add some mud to the water... LINK Some people will tell you that Chrome-Moly barrels are more accurate, and I'd point out that 99.99% of shooters could not tell the differences (as it's less than a MOA). So unless you're shooing in the President's 100 don't worry about the accuracy degredation. (I'd also point out the FN sniper rifle uses a chome lined barrel from their machinegun line; the chroming process has greatly improved from 50 years ago). |
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Quoted:
I did a search, but I couldn't find what I needed. Is one that much better than the other? Thanks! From the very first Q & A posted in the tacked thread at the top of this forum, AR Discussions FAQ & General Information Resource (Read First) 
Material:
There are three common materials used in making barrels: 4140, 4150, and stainless steel (I believe 416 is the most common). Each has advantages and disadvantages. 4150 is the spec (as I understand it) for the military. There have also been discussions of 4150vs CMV which are over my head. Some companies use these terms interchangeably, and others do not, some will list their barrels as “4150 CMV“ while others will use one term or the other. In my mind these terms are interchangeable, but if someone wants to straighten me out, have at it Regardless, 4150 is apparently somewhat better than 4140 in standing up to the heat and abuse from full auto firing. I am not a metallurgist, but the folks who seem to know on page two say that the "40" vs. "50" has to do with an amount of carbon in the steel. More carbon gives a stronger steel, which is slightly harder to machine, but also more durable. The consensus seems to be that 4150 slightly better, slightly more expensive, and possibly a little harder to work with, but the differences may not be detectable in a rifle which is not used to shoot full auto. Either of these materials can be chrome lined. Chrome lining is a process which bonds chrome to the inside of the chamber and or barrel in a very thin layer. This is advantageous in that the chrome lining is harder and has more “lubricity” or “slipperiness” than the underlying chrome moly steel (4140 or 4150). This extends the life of the barrel (possibly 2-3 times as long) as well as making it easier to clean. Some companies offer only chrome lined barrels, some offer both, and some offer only non chrome lined. The general consensus seems to be that chrome lining is easily worth the few extra dollars you pay for it. It does have one down side, however. The process of bonding the chrome to the inside of the barrel is not as exact as the process of cutting the barrel in the first place, thus overall chrome lined barrels are SLIGHTLY less accurate than non chrome lined barrels. This is a generalization (as evidenced by the impressive accuracy of the FN SPR series which usually shows incredible accuracy in spite of having a chrome lined barrel). Most shooters will never notice the decrease in accuracy seen due to chrome lining, but if you are that good, and it is that important to you, then think about getting a rifle without it. Many say that the amount of accuracy lost is less than or equal to ½” at 100 yards, so if you shoot Wolf like me, you will never see it... Personally, I look at as a reliability issue and think chrome-lining my chrome-moly barrel is worth it. |
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Well this is an English lesson. Chrome lined Chrome Molly Two different terms for the same thing. One is the same as the other.
Way to go, professor.
Chrome lined = barrel bore is lined with a thin layer of hard chromium. Chrome-moly = steel alloy the barrel is actually made. Can be chrome lined after rifling/chambering. |
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That is completly incorrect.
Well this is an English lesson. Chrome lined Chrome Molly Two different terms for the same thing. One is the same as the other. One is a subset of the other. Chrome Molly is a plain carbon steel barrel, not unlike most other barrels on sporting arms. Chrome Lines is a chrome molly barrel with chome bonded to the bore. It not only protects against corrosion, it increases barrel life and improves extraction (thus aiding in reliablity). This is also incorrect. "Plain carbon steel" is literally iron and carbon, with some impurities such as sulfur. 1050, 1090 are examples of plain carbon steels. 4140 and 4150 are not plain carbon steels because they have other alloying agents such of molybdenum.
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That is completly incorrect.Well this is an English lesson. Chrome lined Chrome Molly Two different terms for the same thing. One is the same as the other. One is a subset of the other. Chrome Molly is a plain carbon steel barrel, not unlike most other barrels on sporting arms. Chrome Lines is a chrome molly barrel with chome bonded to the bore. It not only protects against corrosion, it increases barrel life and improves extraction (thus aiding in reliablity). This is also incorrect. "Plain carbon steel" is literally iron and carbon, with some impurities such as sulfur. 1050, 1090 are examples of plain carbon steels. 4140 and 4150 are not plain carbon steels because they have other alloying agents such of molybdenum. Uhh this isn't a metalurgy lesson "plain carbon steel' as opposed to 'Stainless steel'. We're trying to get across basic concepts not get into a discussion of the finer points of 4140 vs 4150 |
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Quoted: You are correct Chrome Molly is different from 'Carbon Steel', but this is a thread discussing Chrome Lined vs Chrom Moly. I'm trying to explain the difference in the most simple if not metalugically correct terms to get a point accross in reference to the OPs question.But it's better to learn the correct terms from the beginning than to have to un-learn later. Chrome-Moly Steel is called such to distinguish it from "plain carbon" steel. If you guys want to start a thread discussing barrel steel steel by all means start one and put a link over to it. We have not had a good 4140 vs 4150 vs 410 & 416 stainless in a long long time. |
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chrome moly is what the cheaper vendors call there non-chrome lined barrels to confuse there customers. It is a type of steel alloy.
Chrome lining is one of the things that was updated in the M16A1 to increase reliability. the original M16's didn't have chrome lining and this along with no cleaning kits, and a change in powder, etc., caused the rifle to jam. Chrome lining is still standard in the military M16A2, A3, etc., and M4 series. It's NOT the same thing as a chrome plated car bumper. It makes the barrel last longer. It prevents corrosion** It makes the barrel easier to clean It aides in extraction. for general use, I prefer 1:7twist chrome lined barrels. |
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chrome moly is what the cheaper vendors call there non-chrome lined barrels to confuse there customers. It is a type of steel alloy. Chrome lining is one of the things that was updated in the M16A1 to increase reliability. the original M16's didn't have chrome lining and this along with no cleaning kits, and a change in powder, etc., caused the rifle to jam. Chrome lining is still standard in the military M16A2, A3, etc., and M4 series. It's NOT the same thing as a chrome plated car bumper. It makes the barrel last longer. It makes the barrel easier to clean It aides in extraction. for general use, I prefer 1:7twist chrome lined barrels. Thank you. I was wondering when the "I'm right, you're wrong" about metallurgy was going to end... |
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chrome moly is what the cheaper vendors call there non-chrome lined barrels to confuse there customers. It is a type of steel alloy. Chrome lining is one of the things that was updated in the M16A1 to increase reliability. the original M16's didn't have chrome lining and this along with no cleaning kits, and a change in powder, etc., caused the rifle to jam. Chrome lining is still standard in the military M16A2, A3, etc., and M4 series. It's NOT the same thing as a chrome plated car bumper. It makes the barrel last longer. It prevents corrosion It makes the barrel easier to clean It aides in extraction. for general use, I prefer 1:7twist chrome lined barrels. Thank you. I was wondering when the "I'm right, you're wrong" about metallurgy was going to end... You're welcome 
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I'm sure most of the posters know this, the OP or other readers may NOT; some of its been said, some of the things said were confusing, hopefully to make it a little clearer.
Chrome Moly is a type of alloy of steel, it is one of the better, high quality, hard, durable steels. Its used in lots of applications, but is more expensive, so you usually see it only used in things that need high strength or in a demanding environment, like a rifle barrel. Chrome Lined means the bore is chrome plated. Chrome plating is mostly Nickle with a little chrome, it is harder and smoother than steel, including chrome moly steel, doesn't rust and fouling sticks to it far less. It should wear less, but like mentioned, the most barrel wear comes from throat erosion that is the result of heat & pressure, NOT friction. Chrome being harder than steel, I would "think" would stand up better to the throat erosion, but I don't know that. Seen it stated enough times from reliable sources that chrome lined bores last longer to just dismiss it. Non chrome lined still last 1000's of rounds, so don't get the impression you have to have chrome lined, most agree it isn't necessary for most range AR's. |
| it seems alot of people cant find there ass with both hands on this issue. chrome lined barrels are nice. but if you find the rifle you like and its not chrome lined it shouldnt be a big enough consideration for most shooters to make them pass on a particular gun. the same is true for mil spec vs normal crmo barrels. most of us, the majority, will never shoot enough rounds to wear out a standard barrel. regardless of mil spec or chrome lined. you would have to shoot 20k-30k rounds thru a standard barrel just to begin to see enough wear to affect accuracy, and probubly more than 50k to get that to an unacceptable level. id submit if your spending several thousand dollars on ammo to accomplish this feat you can dam well afford a new barrel every now and again. |
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You are correct Chrome Molly is different from 'Carbon Steel', but this is a thread discussing Chrome Lined vs Chrom Moly. I'm trying to explain the difference in the most simple if not metalugically correct terms to get a point accross in reference to the OPs question.
But it's better to learn the correct terms from the beginning than to have to un-learn later. Chrome-Moly Steel is called such to distinguish it from "plain carbon" steel. If you guys want to start a thread discussing barrel steel steel by all means start one and put a link over to it. We have not had a good 4140 vs 4150 vs 410 & 416 stainless in a long long time. 
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Some info:
4140 is chrome moly steel with "40 points of carbon" = .4% 4150 is chrome moly steel with "50 points of carbon" = .5% CMV is chrome moly steel with vanadium added (usually 4150 in barrel steel). The various alloys have different performance as they get hot. Milspec CMV has more resistance to wear at high temperature than non vanadium 41XX. Industrial hard chrome lining of the chamber and bore (if done properly) increases bore life and helps resist corrosion. Hard chrome can be applied to any of the alloys used for barrels and will have the same beneficial effect. There is no nickle in industrial hard chrome plating. It is done over bare steel. |
| Nickle and chrome coatings are both beneficial to corrosion (we use them every day when putting tools in wells with high co2 & H2S present) resistance but chrome is much softer than any of the other steels used for barrels and therefore only providing corrosion resistance, not extra barrel life because its harder (because its not). But the barrel life is extended due to lack of corrosion factors you get from a chrome lined barrel. |
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chrome moly is what the cheaper vendors call there non-chrome lined barrels to confuse there customers. It is a type of steel alloy. Chrome lining is one of the things that was updated in the M16A1 to increase reliability. the original M16's didn't have chrome lining and this along with no cleaning kits, and a change in powder, etc., caused the rifle to jam. Chrome lining is still standard in the military M16A2, A3, etc., and M4 series. It's NOT the same thing as a chrome plated car bumper. It makes the barrel last longer. It prevents corrosion** It makes the barrel easier to clean It aides in extraction. for general use, I prefer 1:7twist chrome lined barrels. "well put" finally!
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There is no nickle in industrial hard chrome plating. It is done over bare steel. I did a quick check and now realize this is correct, "Decorative" Chrome Plating is alloyed with Nickle or done in several layers with Nickle being a layer, "Industrial HARD" Chrome Plating is pure Chromium deposited on the metal. Might explain why Industrial Hard Chrome Plating is often Dull or Flat until its been polished by friction between moving parts and Decorative Chrome Plating is shiny from the get go. Someone mentioned Chrome is softer than Steel, in my quick research I saw several references as "Industrial HARD" Chrome being extremely hard, several times harder. Remember, Hard Coat Anodizing is much harder than the underlying aluminum, as hard as steel, BUT it still can be scratched and dinged. A thin coat is NOT the same as a solid block, a thin coat, even if it is harder and stronger offering better protection, can still be scratched and dinged off. Just because the tougher coat can be scratched or dinged off does NOT mean its softer than the underlying metal. Another quick fact for the Stainless Steel Barrel fans, saw a quick reference Stainless Steel is a Steel Alloy with at "least" 11% Chromium in it, most SS alloys have a lot of nickle as well. |
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