AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/31/2009 4:55:22 AM EDT
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Hello,
I've been thinking about another rifle and was thinking about a Colt 6920. The only problem is that I'd like to use the AR at the range at targets out to 600 - 800 yards with the right handload. I'm looking for a factory gun that shoots sub MOA and would like to know what you all would recommend. |
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Any HBAR carbine is capable of good accuracy at that sort of range with handloads. However, it takes more skill because you have a shorter sight radius, and the shorter barrel means a bit less velocity, which translates to bigger drop at long range. So, your 6920 would work, but it wouldn't be optimum. You'd have to really be on top of your game.
Any of the Varminter type rifles would work well. Rock River's Varmint rifle seems to be fairly popular. Any of the DCM National Match rifles would work very well for this too. Dublin's comment about 6.5 Grendel is well taken. It's flat shooting, aerodynamic, and remains supersonic past 1000 yards. An excellent choice for long range shooting. |
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The thing is, I've already got a DPMS sweet 16 that's plenty accurate for slow aimed target shooting. I was thinking about getting something like the colt 6920 because it's generally considered to be more reliable and better enabled to handle abuse than my sweet 16 is. Colt has so many different versions of there rifles that I don't know what rifle woud be better suited for what I want. Does the Hbar just have a heavier barrel? What's the more accurate & compact Colt without getting into the long accurized rifle?
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No chrome lined milspec rifle liek the 6920 will give you what you want. People love to overstate what a milspec gun can do. Sub MOA? At 600-800? The 6920 is the las thing you want. Get an 18-20" stainless match barrel with a Wylde chamber if you want it to eat anything. Or get a Noveske that can handle MK262 with its proprietary chamber. Get a 1/7 or 1/8 twist so you can at least use 77 grain ammo to buck wind and even then I think youd be better off with a caliber better than 5.56 because 5.56 sucks in the wind.
You goals almost cant be further than what a 6920 will give. If you insist on .223 and a short barrel for long range (which is a pretty poor idea IMO), get a Noveske 16" midlength upper. Again... a 6920 is NOT an 800 yard sub MOA match rifle. |
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For factory guns check out:
http://www.jprifles.com/ http://www.lesbaer.com/ http://www.wilsoncombat.com/index.htm |
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Quoted:
The thing is, I've already got a DPMS sweet 16 that's plenty accurate for slow aimed target shooting. I was thinking about getting something like the colt 6920 because it's generally considered to be more reliable and better enabled to handle abuse than my sweet 16 is. Colt has so many different versions of there rifles that I don't know what rifle woud be better suited for what I want. Does the Hbar just have a heavier barrel? What's the more accurate & compact Colt without getting into the long accurized rifle? Get the 6920 for a defensive carbine, and trade your 16" upper for something similar in a 20" length. |
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Quoted:
The thing is, I've already got a DPMS sweet 16 that's plenty accurate for slow aimed target shooting. I was thinking about getting something like the colt 6920 because it's generally considered to be more reliable and better enabled to handle abuse than my sweet 16 is. Colt has so many different versions of there rifles that I don't know what rifle woud be better suited for what I want. Does the Hbar just have a heavier barrel? What's the more accurate & compact Colt without getting into the long accurized rifle? ok the premise that you need a supposed more reliable better enabled to handle abuse rifle than your sweet 16 so you can shoot 800meter target ? are these going to be shooting back at you? dont understand the need to justify buying a colt. just about as much as i dont like slighting dpms over colt. ive seen more pos colt ar`s than anything i can think of so i guess you can count me as not even wanting to smell there coolaide much less taste it. if you really want to go for accuracy, a match grade upper, varmint styles too, heavy bullet twist if u must stick with .223 and any lower with a great trigger group, great optics and you should be in buisness. id pay as much attention to the trigger and sights as i would to what upper you get. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The thing is, I've already got a DPMS sweet 16 that's plenty accurate for slow aimed target shooting. I was thinking about getting something like the colt 6920 because it's generally considered to be more reliable and better enabled to handle abuse than my sweet 16 is. Colt has so many different versions of there rifles that I don't know what rifle woud be better suited for what I want. Does the Hbar just have a heavier barrel? What's the more accurate & compact Colt without getting into the long accurized rifle? ok the premise that you need a supposed more reliable better enabled to handle abuse rifle than your sweet 16 so you can shoot 800meter target ? are these going to be shooting back at you? dont understand the need to justify buying a colt. just about as much as i dont like slighting dpms over colt. ive seen more pos colt ar`s than anything i can think of so i guess you can count me as not even wanting to smell there coolaide much less taste it. if you really want to go for accuracy, a match grade upper, varmint styles too, heavy bullet twist if u must stick with .223 and any lower with a great trigger group, great optics and you should be in buisness. id pay as much attention to the trigger and sights as i would to what upper you get. My AR-15 is just for range use, but I wouldn't mind taking a coyote or ground hog with it if the situation presented itself. I'm actually pretty surprised at what I'm hearing about the Colt 6920. I expect a rifle costing over a grand to shoot less than 1 moa at 100 yards and I don't think that's asking too much out of the manufacturer. I've read so much online about how my lowly dpms wouldn't hold up to a colt, bushmaster, whatever, but it shoots very well and is compact & handy. I appreciate everyone helpful advice, but the more I read the more I think I should just buy another DPMS sweet 16 or bull 20. I appreciate the help everyone! |
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My AR-15 is just for range use, but I wouldn't mind taking a coyote or ground hog with it if the situation presented itself. I'm actually pretty surprised at what I'm hearing about the Colt 6920. I expect a rifle costing over a grand to shoot less than 1 moa at 100 yards and I don't think that's asking too much out of the manufacturer. I've read so much online about how my lowly dpms wouldn't hold up to a colt, bushmaster, whatever, but it shoots very well and is compact & handy.
I appreciate everyone helpful advice, but the more I read the more I think I should just buy another DPMS sweet 16 or bull 20. I appreciate the help everyone! Just because a rifle cost over a grand doesn't mean it will be MOA. The 6920 is a Combat rifle, quality = reliability here. You want long range accuracy, you need to look for a rifle made with those paramiters in mind. I would go with a 20" LaRue personally but, judging by your responses in this post, a DPMS or Rock River with probably be more in your ball park. Edit; You may want to give one of the Remingtons a look too. |
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Quoted:
My AR-15 is just for range use, but I wouldn't mind taking a coyote or ground hog with it if the situation presented itself. I'm actually pretty surprised at what I'm hearing about the Colt 6920. I expect a rifle costing over a grand to shoot less than 1 moa at 100 yards and I don't think that's asking too much out of the manufacturer. I've read so much online about how my lowly dpms wouldn't hold up to a colt, bushmaster, whatever, but it shoots very well and is compact & handy.
I appreciate everyone helpful advice, but the more I read the more I think I should just buy another DPMS sweet 16 or bull 20. I appreciate the help everyone! Just because a rifle cost over a grand doesn't mean it will be MOA. The 6920 is a Combat rifle, quality = reliability here. You want long range accuracy, you need to look for a rifle made with those paramiters in mind. I would go with a 20" LaRue personally but, judging by your responses in this post, a DPMS or Rock River with probably be more in your ball park. Edit; You may want to give one of the Remingtons a look too. I know that just because a rifle costs a lot that it's not going to be the perfect rifle. I was just trying to get the idea across that I expect better out of a $1000 rifle than I do a H&R handi single shot for $200. I've personally fired a Colt over in the sandbox and had it jam on me, so the reliability isn't really where the AR platform shines as far as I'm concerned. I understand that there is less of a chance of a part breaking in a colt AR. I just want a rifle to shoot where it's aimed. I'll take a look at the LaRue 20". I'll give this all some more thought. |
| just about any rifle might produce a sub moa group. some maybe more capable than others, speaking mechanically. if you want to shoot 800 meters then a rifle should be built to allow the shooter to approach that level . this means sights trigger and a heavy barrel. other factors imo are stock and barrel length. longer barrels do seem to lead to accuracy. maybe they are easier to hold steady. some people can shoot pretty good with the lighter stuff. but 800 meters is a fer piece . your rig imo should be a varmint/target/sniper type. all have simmilar aspects which i listed . most would likely be close to moa. did you ever sandbag your sweet 16 to see where you stand with several ammo types? you may have a moa rifle right now. |
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Quoted:
I know that just because a rifle costs a lot that it's not going to be the perfect rifle. I was just trying to get the idea across that I expect better out of a $1000 rifle than I do a H&R handi single shot for $200. I've personally fired a Colt over in the sandbox and had it jam on me, so the reliability isn't really where the AR platform shines as far as I'm concerned. I understand that there is less of a chance of a part breaking in a colt AR. I just want a rifle to shoot where it's aimed. I'll take a look at the LaRue 20". I'll give this all some more thought. Think about it: If the basic Colt battle carbine could shoot MOA out to that kind of distance, then military snipers would not need SPR's. There is a reason why the military has DMR's and SPR's and dedicated sniper rifles.... because the basic carbine is not going to be accurate enough at those ranges regardless of who's behind the trigger. |
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Quoted:
For factory guns check out: http://www.jprifles.com/ http://www.lesbaer.com/ http://www.wilsoncombat.com/index.htm JP rifles gets my vote in their CTR 20" model. Since this is in AR disc and not AR variants I assume the OP meant in 223. |
| I used to have a 12BVSS in 223 that was great out to 800 but it was setup exactly like you're talking, great trigger, long barrel, nice heavy stock, decent scope. I've shot my dpms off of sand bags, but mostly off a bi-pod and I was very surprised, but it shot just about everything between 7/8" to 5/8". Some handloaded groups got into the 1/2" or maybe a fuzz better range but that was the exception. I know I felt pretty good about stocking up on the PMC 223 55gr FMJ because those shot under 1" out of my rifle and I didn't think I could ask for anything better than that out of the cheapest brass cased ammo I could find. I've run some hornady 55gr FMJ & 55gr JSP w/c through the rifle and that ammo is right in there around the 5/8" with the JSP w/c doing a little better than the FMJ. When using some 69gr matchking loads that I worked up for the 12BVSS mentioned earlier, those were closer to the 1/2" give or take a little. Using a burris ballistic plex reticle I was able to get out to 500 yards pretty easily & accurately last time out at the range. Next time I'm out at the range I'll hang a paper target at 500 instead of just shooting steel to see what the rifle & I can do. I have no complaints about the sweet 16 for accuracy, but one guy at the range did mention that it has a heck of a muzzle blast. |
| The real problem with using a carbine for 800 yard shooting is you start with less velocity at the muzzle. This means a much larger drop downrange, and makes you a lot more susceptible to wind drift. Now, I believe that with good ammo my carbine will hold 1 MOA (2" groups) at 200 yards if I am on top of my game, but there's a big difference between shooting targets and steel at 200 and going for match grade accuracy at 800. Once you get past 300 or 400 yards, a lot of things start coming into play that weren't so important at lesser ranges. |
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What is the weapon going to be used for?
Shooting paper at 600/800M ? If so then you want a Target/Match Rifle As a civi I have a LMT M4 That I use for protection and Practice at the range I will never be shooting BG at a long range and if so it would be a few feet |
| For me shooting past 400 yards is really just for fun and not anything serious. I like to hit what I'm aiming at still, but I'm not as serious as guys who compete. The 600-800 yard max I figured would just be where the bullet is just out of gas. In my 12BVSS the 223 couldn't hardly scratch paint past 800 yards if I was lucky enough to hit the steel. I'm not expecting the same distance with my dpms, as I was getting with the 26" barreled savage, that'd be pretty unreasonable. That's why I was wondering if the Colt would do any better or if something else would do better. |
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Quoted:
Hello, I've been thinking about another rifle and was thinking about a Colt 6920. The only problem is that I'd like to use the AR at the range at targets out to 600 - 800 yards with the right handload. I'm looking for a factory gun that shoots sub MOA and would like to know what you all would recommend. For best long distance...DPMS Super Bull 24 http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=4 This is THE ONE I have & I'm not suggestions it cause I have one. I simply believe it's the truth accuracy is 1inch groups at 200yds with factory ammo. |
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I use one of these and that will get you you long range accuracy:
Bushmaster SV Ground hogs @ 600 is not a problem. 
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I own a Sabre Heavy Bench that's sub MOA with Federal Gold Medal 69gr factory loads,at the ranges your talking about. 24" SS barrel,smooth consistent trigger,a real pleasure to shoot.All stock,the way it left the factory.
I recomend taking a look at what Sabre has to offer. 
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I vote JP. Going on 10 years now that I've been using my Grade 1 upper assembly I bought from them in 1998-1999. I've killed California ground squirrels out to 400 yards and jack rabbits out to near 600 yards. They've got years of experience going beyond what Les Baer and Wilson have managed. Very happy with their products and innovation. When I first got my rifle several factory loads as well as handloads were all sub-MOA. Now after 10 years it's still subMOA but it's mostly with handloads. I had 2 handloads that used to average around 3/4 of an inch for 10 shots, multiple 10 shot groups, while using mixed brass. |
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