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Posted: 3/8/2009 1:54:43 PM EDT
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OK,
New to site and going to test your level of tolerence with this question. Also, I think I have picked the right forum, if not plese enlighten me on where this should be posted. As stated above, new to site, not to weapons. Now to the point. I have built/modified Mini-14's and have shot various AR platform waepons owned by others. That is the part that is going to change. First of all I am thinking of a $800.00-$1000.00 budget number, I know this is not a fair question without going into what style I would build, but the bottom line question is will I get more value by buying parts and building or just buy one off the shelf. Optics, mounts, lights, would not be included in this number as I already have. I am very mechanical/technical if that matters. Thanks 
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if you to build and want it quick, m and a is about it, or if you catch parts on the ee.
if you want to go 6.8 look at petes ad on the ee for complete rifles and he will sell you an upper. and you can piece the rest together. ive got a RRA 6.8 complete chrome upper, a2 stock off the ee, an essential arms lower and a lpk off gun broker, 785$$ total , now if i could find some local ammo 
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| Building anything provides you a wealth of knowledge on how all the parts work and allows you to be able to troubleshoot any issues faster. Since you said that you are mechanical/technical, go for it and build one. If you just want an AR "right now", try shopping around for a good deal. My first two AR's were bought, and the last six were built. |
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If you build a rifle yourself you'll avoid paying FET on a complete rifle, and have just the rifle you want, not a company's standard generic offering. Taken slowly and in small steps, first time assembly of an AR is not exceedingly difficult, and most all the help and guides necessary can be found on ARF. |
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Thanks fo the input to date.
I was leaning toward the build just because it is my nature. Man, the options are staggering though. What I know for sure is: 1. It will become my SHTF/primary home defence weapon. 2. I want it as light as possible but I am a "buid it once/build it forever" kind of guy. 3. I really like shooting 69 gr PP FMJ for goofing around and have no reason that I can think of not to use 75GR 5.52 TAP LE for it intended purpose. 4. Will be putting my Aimpoint ML2 on it. 5. That I don't know what else I want. Thanks for the feedback so far. What I expected to see was that great big bold print "NOT THIS AGAIN" |
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Quoted:
In this market, get what you can when you can. Buy good stuff of course, but don't dawdle. +1 After the Obamanation  I knew I had the BRD again . So I decided on new Build projects (2 in fact). Nevertheless, plans sort of changed when I spotted a Colt 6920 for sale. Well now I have 1 complete rifle and 2 semi completed builds minus optics added to the collection. In otherwords, if you can find a complete rifle I would suggest getting it. It seems that Parts (especially) uppers are harder to come by. But who knows how long this would last before the Democrat hammer falls on our heads.
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I am also trying to decide whether to buy or build. (SPR MK12.0)
I think I am going to just buy uppers and lowers. In normal times, building was probably the way to go. Now with the backorders of parts out of sight and prices out there too, it seems that building your own method is more of a way to nickel and dime your way to a more expensive rifle. The postage for buying one piece here and another there because no one seems to have half of what you actually need in stock, makes this option unattractive. If you want to buy it now, you are often choosing to buy from multiple guys who paid high speculative prices, and are trying to double their money for a fast instant profit. That’s OK, but ruins this option for a lot of people. I went on line today to come up with a build option, using quality parts and options I actually want….. I looked through many different web sights and auction sights. For me, it seams cheaper and much easier to buy a complete LMT lower even at these inflated prices, and ADCO SPR upper. |
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To be honest I would build one. It may take longer but you will learn more in the process and end up getting more of what you specifically want. For example you could buy a complete RRA, S&W,
Bushmaster for about $1000-1100 or built a quality lower and put a top of the line upper (the most important part) like LMT, Sabre, or BCM on it for the same price. |
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Quoted:
Thanks fo the input to date. I was leaning toward the build just because it is my nature. Man, the options are staggering though. What I know for sure is: 1. It will become my SHTF/primary home defence weapon. 2. I want it as light as possible but I am a "buid it once/build it forever" kind of guy. 3. I really like shooting 69 gr PP FMJ for goofing around and have no reason that I can think of not to use 75GR 5.52 TAP LE for it intended purpose. 4. Will be putting my Aimpoint ML2 on it. 5. That I don't know what else I want. Thanks for the feedback so far. What I expected to see was that great big bold print "NOT THIS AGAIN" I've discovered a lot of people on this forum that are tired of these questions, usually just steer away from the thread. Plus this is more of a technical subforum and mods seem to try and keep it pointed that direction (if you posted this in GD - general discussion, that would be a different story). 
Anyways onto your rifle... The subforum a few down from this one, the "build it yourself" forum has the instruction you will be after if you decide to build the rifle. In the current gun market, you might be better off buying a complete rifle if you want it now. I say this because like you I built mine the way I wanted it from the start, under the buy once, cry once moto. But many of the parts I used when building mine I see are out of stock everywhere, and rarely do I see them in stock for long. So, if you can wait to find the parts your after, or don't mind paying a premium to get the part now then building it is the route I'd go with. Good luck with your choosen route. |
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I had so much fun building my last rifle. It really feels like mine and I beam with pride when I talk about it. Even if it cost more to do I still think it would be worth it. Fortunately it doesn't cost more. Be sure to drop some dough on a premium barrel. Save your scratch on the upper and lower forgings (since they are all pretty much the same) and drop some more dough on good internals.
Good luck and enjoy BRD. |
| I own both manufacture built, (Stag, Colt) and a couple I have built myself. The ones I enjoy the most are the ones I built. I see you like the 69gr bullet so I would go with a SPR type build. I used a Douglas SS 18" on my SPR and love it. Buying a good barrel is the key. Doing a build you will know exactly what you have without wanting to upgrade because you picked the parts out. I went with a two stage trigger for example and if I would have just bought a gun; then I would most likely spend more money on the trigger to get it where I wanted it and increased the cost of the store bought AR. Doing a build yourself will just take patience. Need instant gratifacation, go with a complete rifle (carbine). Really no wrong answer just different answers. |
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Quoted:
Thanks fo the input to date. I was leaning toward the build just because it is my nature. Man, the options are staggering though. What I know for sure is: 1. It will become my SHTF/primary home defence weapon. 2. I want it as light as possible but I am a "buid it once/build it forever" kind of guy. 3. I really like shooting 69 gr PP FMJ for goofing around and have no reason that I can think of not to use 75GR 5.52 TAP LE for it intended purpose. 4. Will be putting my Aimpoint ML2 on it. 5. That I don't know what else I want. Thanks for the feedback so far. What I expected to see was that great big bold print "NOT THIS AGAIN" A good option for you might be a Delton M4 kit, with 1/7 barrel. I bought one just after the election, haven't fired it yet but the rifle kit met my expectations. Del-ton has plenty of options available for purchaes, price is cost effective. If you can find a decent price on a lower, you should be able to build an M4 around the Delton kit for $900 or so. If I were you, I'd buy the kit with a free float rail, I picked up mine with the standard car handguards because I wanted a straightforward rifle in my collection. I've since sold a number of my floated rifles to fund the downpayment on a new mustang GT I picked up a couple of weeks ago. Now I wish this rifle had a ff. Lesson is, your needs might change. better to buy with everything your budget can tolerate at the time of purchase. |
I am building my first, I figured I better because it might not be possible in the future. If you decide to build one it will take a lot of patience it took me four months of looking before I found the Noveske 18" SPR barrel I wanted. That being said I already have four complete rifles so that tends to give me a little patience. I don't think you will save money building but you would get just what you want and the satisfaction of doing it
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a minority of mine have started off as complete rifles. Even my complete Noveske and LMT had the uppers and lowers acquired separately. It's rewarding to me to do your own custom thing. I'm still a bit mechanically challenged so I send the upper components to ADCO for assembly (more often than not I'll be getting the rails or some other component from them). This is my latest custom job. Sabre Defense lower, I installed the LPK and stock. Sabre Defence 14.5" midlength upper with extended FH, BCM upper receiver and BCG. This is one of my favorites.
This was put together with an LMT lower, VLTOR MUR-1 upper, Noveske 16" recon barrel and DD Lite Rail 
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Quoted:
a minority of mine have started off as complete rifles. Even my complete Noveske and LMT had the uppers and lowers acquired separately. It's rewarding to me to do your own custom thing. I'm still a bit mechanically challenged so I send the upper components to ADCO for assembly (more often than not I'll be getting the rails or some other component from them). This is my latest custom job. Sabre Defense lower, I installed the LPK and stock. Sabre Defence 14.5" midlength upper with extended FH, BCM upper receiver and BCG. This is one of my favorites. http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/jcrowl/IMG_1715.jpg http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/jcrowl/IMG_1720.jpg Ya know, other than picking up a spare barrel, BCG and LPK, I thought I had drawn a line on BRD even tho I kept having visions of building a railed midlength w/ a 14.5 barrel. Then I actually actually see a pic of the rifle I've been daydreaming about and know I'm helpless to the disease. Thanks crowl, thanks alot. |
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To all,
Thanks for the input. I was really leaning to the build option and these responses make me have confidence that I was thinking somewhat clearly. I have started looking at the various manufacturers and now begins the laborous task of trying to sort through the way too many options. That looks like the difficult part. Looks like I may have to bump my budget up a bit as I am not in the position to have multiple builds so I need to be carefull and resist my natural urge to build a specialty weapon. Yet I am all about quality. You know the drill, Range Rover taste on a Ford, GM, Chrysler budget. I like the 1:7 idea as stated in one of the replys as I do like the heaver bullets. I am thinking also of the chrome lined barrel. I am loving LMT and Daniel Defence stuff but WOW$$$$.I also am thinking the high quality trigger group gig is the way to go. Son of a B(&%^ I think i am getting a bad case of the F**6&%$ AR bug. Here goes the 50% of my portfolio that the stock market has not taken. Thanks again and do not refrain from adding suggestions as I do not expext this to be an overnight project. Now off I go to try to make some sense of all the stuff that is out there. Any other input about the kit gig. One of the replys seemed pretty positive about it?
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| I just built my first rifle, and had the same concerns and questions as. First of all this forum is an excellent resource, and I found the members to be more than willing to share their experience and advice. That being said I purchased a lower and equipped it with a NM trigger, tango down grip, Magpul stock and Troy sling attachment. The upper I purchased on the EE and am waiting for my free float rail and buis to show up. The overall package will be a rock river 10.5 SBR with all the bells and whistles for around $1200 including extra mags and ammo. I have the exact rifle I wanted and had the enjoyment of selecting my parts and puting it together exactly as I wantd it. |
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Quoted: Prior to the last election, LMT complete uppers sans BCG were in the $500 range. Scarce as hens teeth they are now...Catman2 I will understand if you don't want to reply to this rude question, but I will ask it anyway. Using the LMT/Sabre grade of components are you in the $1000, $1500, or more range? |
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I vote for "both", depending on what you can find. I bought a complete 16in middy as it was actually cheaper than trying to buy the parts to put one together. But then I have put together four or so personal builds as I fine tune just what I want.
A Cav.Arms lightweight lower with a M-4 upper and a .22 conversion kit just for fun at the range or in the field, and its cute (under 6 pounds) My middy with a scope and two stage trigger because it shoots so darn well. A 24 inch bull with a BIG scope to terrorize the local varmint population. (reach out and touch someone...) A M4 MilSpec gun with EoTech, YHM BUIS, single point sling, etc........To rock and roll with Oh...and a 20 Std sized rifle......just because everyone should have one. Build it, buy it, but get it! |
It may, in todays political climate, be a bit more expensive to build a rifle from scratch, even if its not for any other reason than that you half to pay shipping from a different store for every little part However, that being said, I am a firm believer in the old "buy once, cry once" saying. You could buy a complete rifle, and then buy and replace every part in it that you didn't care for, and end up paying more than if you'd just built the bloody thing the way you wanted it to begin with.  Good luck mate..............................and get a doctor to look at that case of BRD. I prefer the Bui-anudder-wryffle treatment myself.
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Quoted:
Catman2 I will understand if you don't want to reply to this rude question, but I will ask it anyway. Using the LMT/Sabre grade of components are you in the $1000, $1500, or more range? Not a rude question, using a LaRue BCG or LMT if I could find one I would hope to realistically stay sub k. Thats knowing exactly what I want, take my time (quickly) and not experimenting or changing my mind along the way which is what someone in a first build may do. You keep saying there are so many options. Yeah there are. I would buy my first AR complete from someone like Del-Ton, don't rebuild it and fill up a parts box rather use it as a starting point for future build ideas. Because I don't care how close your first rifle is to a one and only dream rifle, with more experience and the more you look the more you're going to see other rigs that you'll pine for. It's a disease, kinda like Harleys but less $$$. |
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Ok Guys,
This is what I have picked. Not ordered yet as I want some oversight/opinions. Do not care about wait time. Have other guns to play with. Again, I intend to put my aimpoint on it and a tac light. Did I forget anything? Do my choices make sense (parts all work together)? A decent SHTF weapon? Opinions welcome. Please explain any changes/delete opinions if you will. Please no recycled non experience related statements. fM4 Rifle Kit -Barrel:DTI 16" M4 1x7 Chrome Lined M4 Rifle Kit / Rifle -Handguards:DPMS Free Float Tube Rifle Kit / Rifle -BC:TiN Bolt & Carrier Rifle Kit / Rifle -Buttstock:M4 Buttstock - Black Rifle Kit / Rifle -Grips:A2 Grip - Black Rifle Kit / Rifle-Carrying Handle:None Rifle Kit / Rifle-Flash Hiders:A2 Flash Hider Rifle Kit / Rifle-Gas Blocks:Standard A2 Front Sight Rifle Kit / Rifle-Lower Parts:Lower Parts Kit with Rock River Arms 2 Stage Trigger Rifle Kit / Rifle-T Handle:Standard Charging Handle Rifle Kit / Rifle-Uppers:A1 Upper with brass deflector and forward assist All for 768.00 @ Deltron. Thanks, Jeff
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Definately build!!!!!!!!! Be patient and you will end up with a better grade AR.
Example: Took me from Feb. 4th until Feb. 25th........ Bravo Company 16" M4..CL bore and chamber..1/7" twist LMT S/A BCG Essential Arms lower CMT/Stag extension kit Magpul MOE stock CMMG LPK Noveske double heat shield handguards Total after tax, shipping and transfer = $970.30 
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| get yourself an EA or one of the second ammendment stripped lowers and wait on getting a LPK until they come into stock. Everyone wants $90+ for them on the EE. I'd get an inexpensive stripped lower and wait out the EE "deals" and buy from the retailers. I'm considering buying another stripped lower and building a budget rifle I can throw around and not worry about. Call it a duty rifle and shoot everything I can find with it. Then keep my Noveske for nice pretty ammo and those 800 yard shots in the desert. |
I think building can be cheaper or WAY more expensive than buying, depending on the rifle. I just started my precision rifle build, and I'm looking at close to $900 just for the completed lower
I started with a Dennys Billet Lower, plan on a Magpul PRS, Magpul MIAD, and Timney Trigger. The nice thing about building a high end rifle is that you don't have to drop the large amount of coin all at once, spreading it out by doing little by little makes it less painful on the wallet. My BRD is definitely worsening. 
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In this market, get what you can when you can. Buy good stuff of course, but don't dawdle. +1 After the Obamanation I knew I had the BRD again. So I decided on new Build projects (2 in fact). Nevertheless, plans sort of changed when I spotted a Colt 6920 for sale. Well now I have 1 complete rifle and 2 semi completed builds minus optics added to the collection. In otherwords, if you can find a complete rifle I would suggest getting it. It seems that Parts (especially) uppers are harder to come by. But who knows how long this would last before the Democrat hammer falls on our heads.
Buy first, then build.IMHO |
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Once again I am going to take advantage of your paitence.
Fact: I AM BUILDING Fact: I have some money in hand and am going to begin ordering parts this week Fact (Kind Of): I can see by reserch and the forum that putting together various parts seems to be the norm so thats is what I feel like I will get the most quality for a price that will not hurt as much as buying what I really want all at once. Now for a stupid question. As stated before, I am very technical/mechanical but annal in nature. Question 1: It would seem to me that the lower/LPK, BCG are the meat and potatoes work horse of the gun. If something there fails, my mind sees no bang send a piece of metal down the barrel. So from a reliability perspective, would it not be smart to get the very best in this area. It would seem to me that barrels, and handguards would affect accuracy but are the second area of importance as far as CQ reliability. Stocks, rails, bells whistles, ... while cool and neat looking,can always be added but have nothing to do with the band=flying metal deal. I ask this because if I am right, I am liking the LMT Defender lower and will go from there. Am I even close or should I take up another project? Thanks, Jeff 
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