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Posted: 1/26/2009 7:51:47 AM EDT
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Went to the range saturday. First I was shooting through a dirty gun. Best groups I got were around 1moa. Most were around 2.5 to 3moa.
First I shot AE 193- I figured this would group pretty decent. It was around 3moa. Second I tried Wolf MilClassic- This was terrible. I'll never buy it again. My Stag jammed up with it about 5 out of 20 rounds and it didn't group well at all. Third I shot Ultramax- This grouped pretty well, multiple 1 moa groupings. A lot of 2 moa groups and not much bigger than that with this ammo. Now I know my stag can shoot more consistent than this. I know it can shoot 1 moa consistenly. Where can I find breathing techniques and such for shooting? I feel like a jerk when i pull the trigger, would a two stage help? I've shot a lot of ultramax and my rifle likes it. I need to get some black hills again, it was the most accurate through my gun so far. Conditions at the range were aruond 30 degrees. I was shooting off the bench with a bipod through a Model 2 stag, ff tube and a 3-9x40 scope. The range is not level. You shoot downhill into the berm, which i didn't like. 5mph winds. thanks for the help |
| I understand I am using reman stuff and crap russian steel cased stuff, but I still feel like I am jerking a little when I pull the trigger. If anyone has information of breathing techniques or any of other information on consistency it would be much appreciated. |
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What was the range to target?
1 MOA is just over an inch at 100 yards, so that size groups aren't bad really. If it is inch groups at a lot closer then I don't know how to say this my friend, but its probably not the gun. Take a breath, let it out slowly, just before the bottom of your breath stop, take up the trigger slack, then squeeze the trigger slowly all the way to the rear.... repeat That is called the respiratory pause. If you have a standard trigger you should have some take up... Use it to your advantage. |
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how do you "know" your rifle can shoot 1MOA?
how many rounds per group? statistically a larger round count will give you a better idea of your true accuracy. the fact that your ultramax groupings were varying from 1MOA to 2MOA is an indicator that you may not have the mechanical accuracy you are claiming... none of the ammo you mentioned is what i would consider "match grade", i wouldn't expect better than 2-3MOA out of them, get some black hills 69gr SMKs or Federal Gold Medal Match, and see what you can do... a 2-stage trigger will give you a lighter cleaner break, and should help on your end. if you are feeling a "jerk" in the trigger, it is probably you. you can put some moly lube on the sear contact surfaces and "break" it in, which should make the trigger feel a LITTLE better... also try some dry fire drills where you put a coin on the end of the muzzle, if the coin falls when you are pulling the trigger, you are either anticipating the shot and flinching OR jerking the trigger rather than smoothly squeezing the trigger until it breaks... the most telltale sign of improper breathing is vertical stringing... if your groups are consistent in windage, but are varying in elevation, you aren't breathing right... if your groups are varying in windage, that usually means you aren't maintaining a consistent sight picture... if you posted some pictures of your targets it could help, also username "Molon" has some really good threads on shooting accurately with ammo reviews, measuring groups, etc. |
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Quoted:
What was the range to target? 1 MOA is just over an inch at 100 yards, so that size groups aren't bad really. If it is inch groups at a lot closer then I don't know how to say this my friend, but its probably not the gun. Take a breath, let it out slowly, just before the bottom of your breath stop, take up the trigger slack, then squeeze the trigger slowly all the way to the rear.... repeat That is called the respiratory pause. If you have a standard trigger you should have some take up... Use it to your advantage. Range to the target was 100 yds. |
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Quoted:
how do you "know" your rifle can shoot 1MOA? how many rounds per group? statistically a larger round count will give you a better idea of your true accuracy. the fact that your ultramax groupings were varying from 1MOA to 2MOA is an indicator that you may not have the mechanical accuracy you are claiming... none of the ammo you mentioned is what i would consider "match grade", i wouldn't expect better than 2-3MOA out of them, get some black hills 69gr SMKs or Federal Gold Medal Match, and see what you can do... a 2-stage trigger will give you a lighter cleaner break, and should help on your end. if you are feeling a "jerk" in the trigger, it is probably you. you can put some moly lube on the sear contact surfaces and "break" it in, which should make the trigger feel a LITTLE better... also try some dry fire drills where you put a coin on the end of the muzzle, if the coin falls when you are pulling the trigger, you are either anticipating the shot and flinching OR jerking the trigger rather than smoothly squeezing the trigger until it breaks... the most telltale sign of improper breathing is vertical stringing... if your groups are consistent in windage, but are varying in elevation, you aren't breathing right... if your groups are varying in windage, that usually means you aren't maintaining a consistent sight picture... if you posted some pictures of your targets it could help, also username "Molon" has some really good threads on shooting accurately with ammo reviews, measuring groups, etc. I know it can shoot 1 moa because I've shot it and a buddy who is a better shot than I has shot 1 moa. I feel that I am the problem and want to fix this. I do believe I need some black hills and try again at the range. Thanks for the idea about the coin. I'll be trying that right after classes today. If anyone else has any training or technique that you can do at home that'd be great. I might take a trip to the gun store later this week and try to locate some good black hills stuff. thanks again. Cassidy |
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http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Modern-Reloading-2Nd/dp/B000N8OKAU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1232996551&sr=8-1
Seriously, there may be some "match" ammo out there that will give optimum accuracy in your rifle, but what you need to do is custom load if you want max accuracy. It's all about the "jump" into the lands of your rifling. two consecutively serial numbered rifles can want two different loads to achieve optimum accuracy. |
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How many shots to make the 1MOA grouping?
I can get lucky and land a 1" 3-shot group with WOLF at 200m, Matter of fact, I have. The next 7 shots covered a 4" area though–– just because "It has shot 1moa on a few occasions" doesnt mean that it is a consistant 1MOA shooter–– As mentioned above–– Get some Match ammo (Black Hills, Federal, or PRVI-Yes, PRVI.), check your technique, get a good solid 5-10 shot grouping a few times with a few different match ammos (or handloads)... THEN you'll really "know" what your rifle's group size is... As far as 2-3 MOA with Cheap ass ammo?––- Expect it. Hell, Unless you have rounds that just LOVE your barrel, it's hard to get under the magic 1 MOA that everyone brags about... GL and have Fun! |
Your stag jammed with 5 times in 20 rounds with wolf ? Thats odd, I have ran over 1,000 rounds of wold rapid and slow rate of fire throught my Stag with zero problems(except accuracy). Your rifle shouldnt jam that much even with cheap ammo. Not even Vulcans jam that much
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Lay off the caffeine for a couple of days, it works wonders for me. And some barrels are picky about what you
feed them, you may have to reload to really find a sweet spot for the gun. 1" groups show it has the potential. Also copper fowling in the throat causes havoc. If your groups continue to open up I would suspect it. |
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Quoted:
Your stag jammed with 5 times in 20 rounds with wolf ? Thats odd, I have ran over 1,000 rounds of wold rapid and slow rate of fire throught my Stag with zero problems(except accuracy). Your rifle shouldnt jam that much even with cheap ammo. Not even Vulcans jam that muchthis rifle has never liked wolf. none of it. |
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Clean the gun very well, make sure the barrel and chamber are spotless, if its pretty new, it should be silver not grey after cleaning. Let your breath out about half way or more and stop, hold on target and sqeeze the trigger, surprise yourself with the shot. keep on target for a second after the shot and repeat. If your jerking the trigger, practice dry fireing. You can even buy some snapcaps and have a friend load them randomly in the mag. Then if you flinch(and no shot) you'll feel like and idiot. It actually helps a lot. Sounds like the main thing you need to do is practice not flinching. When I first started shootign, I went to my friends property by myself and shot close range with my eyes closed and focused on sqeezing and not flinching(learned this from archery). It cured me real fast.
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