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Posted: 12/27/2008 6:14:58 PM EDT
| M855's. First mag, 1st 3 rounds ok. After that, every round fails to eject. Do I need to go heavier to "break" in? Other possible causes? |
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Did not "clean and lube". Let me say, I have owned at least 10 (no exageration) 6920s and have always popped a mag in and went to town. The round does not make it all the way out of the chamber. Tada. You should always clean a brand new gun - it comes with a coat of some kind of grease to protect it during long periods of storage. Otherwise you'll have problems like what you described. |
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Check the gas-key.
Check the gas-tube/FSB fit. Is the rifle 100% KAC, or have you bolted something else onto it? I had an enidine buffer one time that would prevent function in my otherwise 100% rifle. What M855 is it? Is it that IGMAN crap (lime-green nose)? Or are you using IMI/Winchester/LC M855? Have you tried it with something other than this M855? Maybe you are using Radway SS109 that is watered down? Check the ammo... I am thinking there has to be something physically amiss here. I have shot colts covered in grease (used RIG+P by itself for lube once, just to see), and my Sabre was test-fired by sabre bone-dry, as in never had lube put on it. Unless the rifle is dirty from lots of shooting, I just don't think that "clean and lube" is going to be your answer. |
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Did not "clean and lube". Let me say, I have owned at least 10 (no exageration) 6920s and have always popped a mag in and went to town. The round does not make it all the way out of the chamber. Then you got lucky 10 times, and this time the odds might have caught up with you. ALWAYS field strip and clean a new weapon before firing it. You don't want to be burning all that packing grease and cosmoline in the chamber. |
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Did not "clean and lube". Let me say, I have owned at least 10 (no exageration) 6920s and have always popped a mag in and went to town. The round does not make it all the way out of the chamber. Then you got lucky 10 times, and this time the odds might have caught up with you. ALWAYS field strip and clean a new weapon before firing it. You don't want to be burning all that packing grease and cosmoline in the chamber. I have never seen a rifle that is shipped in all this stuff, not new colts, not my Sabre, and nothing at my local gun-stores has had enough grease on it to matter. Much less Cosmoline. |
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Did not "clean and lube". Let me say, I have owned at least 10 (no exageration) 6920s and have always popped a mag in and went to town. The round does not make it all the way out of the chamber. Then you got lucky 10 times, and this time the odds might have caught up with you. ALWAYS field strip and clean a new weapon before firing it. You don't want to be burning all that packing grease and cosmoline in the chamber. I have never seen a rifle that is shipped in all this stuff, not new colts, not my Sabre, and nothing at my local gun-stores has had enough grease on it to matter. Much less Cosmoline. Really? My new 6920 was practically dripping with it when I took it out of the plastic. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did not "clean and lube". Let me say, I have owned at least 10 (no exageration) 6920s and have always popped a mag in and went to town. The round does not make it all the way out of the chamber. Then you got lucky 10 times, and this time the odds might have caught up with you. ALWAYS field strip and clean a new weapon before firing it. You don't want to be burning all that packing grease and cosmoline in the chamber. I have never seen a rifle that is shipped in all this stuff, not new colts, not my Sabre, and nothing at my local gun-stores has had enough grease on it to matter. Much less Cosmoline. Really? My new 6920 was practically dripping with it when I took it out of the plastic. All of my factory new rifles have been soaked in said oil/grease/whatever. Colt, bushy, RRA, LMT. |
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030,
It is a new SR-15 E3. I'm going to clean it and try some different ammo through it. I'll report back to let you know how it goes. I'm also going to try to study a little closer and see if I can zero n on exactly what is going on. If need be, I'll send it back to KAC. I appreciate your help. |
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I would guess it is the gas key, Im sad to say we've seen one E3 rifle have to go back forthis already. I would bet heavy that it wasnt the gas rings or needing to clean a brand new rifle  +1 I have *heard* that KAC does not stake the castle-nut on these as well (don't know about their gas-key stakeing). Is your castle nut staked well? *just curious* |
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I would guess it is the gas key, Im sad to say we've seen one E3 rifle have to go back forthis already. I would bet heavy that it wasnt the gas rings or needing to clean a brand new rifle +1 I have *heard* that KAC does not stake the castle-nut on these as well (don't know about their gas-key stakeing). Is your castle nut staked well? *just curious* My gas key is properly staked on my E3. My castle nut on the buffer tube is not staked. I have done two days and alot of rounds through mine with no noted movement. I have marked mine to keep an eye on it. How the hell do you stake a castle nut anyways? |
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Alright, an update. Changed ammo (Remington .223 55gr) and went to a new HK mag.
Did not fail to eject this afternoon. First 4 rounds: failed to chamber 4th round properly and the bolt slammed against the round, denting the casing. Next 5 rounds: ok Next 7 rounds: Bang, bang, failed to chamber round. Bang, failed to chamber round. Bang, failed to chamber round. I stopped. Do I need to send in the complete rifle or just the upper. So far, I am disappointed. My wife more so bc of the dough this thing cost. I'll call KAC tomorrow to return. 
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KAC is top of the line. Dont feed it crap ammo like Remington. My buddies bought a case of that stuff and we had so many bad rounds while shooting out in the desert. Bullets set back into casing or ones that werent crimped and just fell out. Had tons of fail to loads too with bullets going into casing. This was in an LMT rifle. Luckily we had Lake City Federal and Winchester ammo. Zero problems after that. Clean and lube properly. If you emailed KAC you would get bitched out by Colonel Lutz. He personally wrote me an email saying (with pictures) that it is impossible for them to send out a defective RAS II rail!!! He was right! It was Eotech's fault putting out 552s with canted rails. Try with better ammo and use a good lube like CLP or Tetra Gun. Not that Hoppes crap. If you drove a Rolls Royce would you put Rotten Robbie gasoline into it or Shell with V- Power? Dont be cheap. Use good ammo.
Also you got lucky with the Colts. When your luck runs out with shooting guns coated with cosmoline- it will explode. I saw an AK47 do it and also a Tommy gun. Both owners at the same time purchased it and went right to the range in the gun shop without cleaning. First three shots went fine and then BOOM the receiver blows and flies backwards hitting the rear wall. Then a few mins later the Tommy Gun does the same. Luckily no one got hurt! F tards! |
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KAC is top of the line. Dont feed it crap ammo like Remington. My buddies bought a case of that stuff and we had so many bad rounds while shooting out in the desert. Bullets set back into casing or ones that werent crimped and just fell out. Had tons of fail to loads too with bullets going into casing. This was in an LMT rifle. Luckily we had Lake City Federal and Winchester ammo. Zero problems after that. Clean and lube properly. If you emailed KAC you would get bitched out by Colonel Lutz. He personally wrote me an email saying (with pictures) that it is impossible for them to send out a defective RAS II rail!!! He was right! It was Eotech's fault putting out 552s with canted rails. Try with better ammo and use a good lube like CLP or Tetra Gun. Not that Hoppes crap. If you drove a Rolls Royce would you put Rotten Robbie gasoline into it or Shell with V- Power? Dont be cheap. Use good ammo. Also you got lucky with the Colts. When your luck runs out with shooting guns coated with cosmoline- it will explode. I saw an AK47 do it and also a Tommy gun. Both owners at the same time purchased it and went right to the range in the gun shop without cleaning. First three shots went fine and then BOOM the receiver blows and flies backwards hitting the rear wall. Then a few mins later the Tommy Gun does the same. Luckily no one got hurt! F tards! Hrmmm...remington is crap? I freely acknowledge its not the best, but it has fed just fine in EVERY .223/5.56 rifle I have. A dozen or so. It should feed just fine in his KAC if it were functioning properly. I have talked with KAC before, and was unimpressed. You might be right about him getting bitched out if he e-mailed them. However, some very upstanding (from what I have seen in this forum) people from KAC have already told him how to get his rifle fixed. Pat Rogers has run AR's on vagisil and piss before (not mixed, lol). He doesn't need some Vunderlube to make his AR run. PLenty of people here get them to run bone dry (for a short time anyways). That is how Sabre test-fires for function in fact. So you are saying that the cosmoline stopped up the bore AFTER firing a few shots? Sounds like some reloads/squib load to me... |
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We need just the upper with bolt and carrier. It sounds like there is a gas leak problem . We will fix it and turn it around as fast as possible. There will be a one wk. delay for posting on a forum before you contacted us direct. Just Kidding! Now THAT is customer service right there! I about spit my drink out. 
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Quoted:I'll call KAC tomorrow to return.
Should have just started there...would have saved time and aggravation. With the symptoms you described I'm curious why no person here suggested the load one and shoot to test for definitive short-stroking. Or also why no one here suggested inspecting the extractor claw for burrs or defects. Instead we have discussions of cosmoline fouling.... 
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Quoted:
KAC is top of the line. Dont feed it crap ammo like Remington. My buddies bought a case of that stuff and we had so many bad rounds while shooting out in the desert. Bullets set back into casing or ones that werent crimped and just fell out. Had tons of fail to loads too with bullets going into casing. This was in an LMT rifle. Luckily we had Lake City Federal and Winchester ammo. Zero problems after that. Clean and lube properly. If you emailed KAC you would get bitched out by Colonel Lutz. He personally wrote me an email saying (with pictures) that it is impossible for them to send out a defective RAS II rail!!! He was right! It was Eotech's fault putting out 552s with canted rails. Try with better ammo and use a good lube like CLP or Tetra Gun. Not that Hoppes crap. If you drove a Rolls Royce would you put Rotten Robbie gasoline into it or Shell with V- Power? Dont be cheap. Use good ammo. Also you got lucky with the Colts. When your luck runs out with shooting guns coated with cosmoline- it will explode. I saw an AK47 do it and also a Tommy gun. Both owners at the same time purchased it and went right to the range in the gun shop without cleaning. First three shots went fine and then BOOM the receiver blows and flies backwards hitting the rear wall. Then a few mins later the Tommy Gun does the same. Luckily no one got hurt! F tards! This post represents everything hilarious and wrong about this board, with a misplaced sense of brand loyalty, confused understanding of the characteristics of a fighting gun, mixed up with an insane "anecdote == evidence" mentality. |
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Yea, I don't get the cosmoline thing. When I first responded, I asked for more info., like whether it had been cleaned and lubed properly, etc.. That is the FIRST thing that should be done with ANY firearm. Besides making sure that there is no "crap" inside your bolt and barrel, it gives you the chance to inspect things like the extractor, gas key staking..etc..
Quoted:I'll call KAC tomorrow to return.
Should have just started there...would have saved time and aggravation. With the symptoms you described I'm curious why no person here suggested the load one and shoot to test for definitive short-stroking. Or also why no one here suggested inspecting the extractor claw for burrs or defects. Instead we have discussions of cosmoline fouling.... |
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Check the gas-key. Check the gas-tube/FSB fit. Is the rifle 100% KAC, or have you bolted something else onto it? I had an enidine buffer one time that would prevent function in my otherwise 100% rifle. What M855 is it? Is it that IGMAN crap (lime-green nose)? Or are you using IMI/Winchester/LC M855? Have you tried it with something other than this M855? Maybe you are using Radway SS109 that is watered down? Check the ammo... I am thinking there has to be something physically amiss here. I have shot colts covered in grease (used RIG+P by itself for lube once, just to see), and my Sabre was test-fired by sabre bone-dry, as in never had lube put on it. Unless the rifle is dirty from lots of shooting, I just don't think that "clean and lube" is going to be your answer. BTW Ive seen SOME RADWAY test hotter than M855 Test was done by LTC Chuck Santose |
| wait you had fteject, changed mags and ammo, now you have ftfeed. Your mags dont work with that setup obviously. go back to origional mags with new ammo and keep it wet, you should be 100% after that. New dry guns dont work, and thick packing grease will proly bind you up too. Detail the gun, clp/remoil/hoppes9 the thing and then get back to us. |
| The owner of the company already replied that it sounds like a gas leak problem. I would have to agree, because these rifles eat anything outta just about any mag when 100%. I think the quickest resolve will be the customer sending in the upper and getting it back after any issues being resolved. I "broke in" mine with extra lube and about 6 different types of ammo. Most good, but even used some wolf and winchester white box to check for function. 100%. When he gets it back, it will run with any ammo that will funtion. I even did one mag with everything dry just to see if it would still run. No problems there either. I always check my rifles for adverse conditions before they get to go to the "I can trust that rifle" list. My E3 is on that list as it is mechanically sound as an AR possibly could be for my intensive purposes. I might be a lowly civie that doesn't run classes all year, but I ran my E3 as hard as I would ever have to and it didn't hiccup even a little. |
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KAC is top of the line. Dont feed it crap ammo like Remington. My buddies bought a case of that stuff and we had so many bad rounds while shooting out in the desert. Bullets set back into casing or ones that werent crimped and just fell out. Had tons of fail to loads too with bullets going into casing. This was in an LMT rifle. Luckily we had Lake City Federal and Winchester ammo. Zero problems after that. Clean and lube properly. If you emailed KAC you would get bitched out by Colonel Lutz. He personally wrote me an email saying (with pictures) that it is impossible for them to send out a defective RAS II rail!!! He was right! It was Eotech's fault putting out 552s with canted rails. Try with better ammo and use a good lube like CLP or Tetra Gun. Not that Hoppes crap. If you drove a Rolls Royce would you put Rotten Robbie gasoline into it or Shell with V- Power? Dont be cheap. Use good ammo. Also you got lucky with the Colts. When your luck runs out with shooting guns coated with cosmoline- it will explode. I saw an AK47 do it and also a Tommy gun. Both owners at the same time purchased it and went right to the range in the gun shop without cleaning. First three shots went fine and then BOOM the receiver blows and flies backwards hitting the rear wall. Then a few mins later the Tommy Gun does the same. Luckily no one got hurt! F tards! Hrmmm...remington is crap? I freely acknowledge its not the best, but it has fed just fine in EVERY .223/5.56 rifle I have. A dozen or so. It should feed just fine in his KAC if it were functioning properly. I have talked with KAC before, and was unimpressed. You might be right about him getting bitched out if he e-mailed them. However, some very upstanding (from what I have seen in this forum) people from KAC have already told him how to get his rifle fixed. Pat Rogers has run AR's on vagisil and piss before (not mixed, lol). He doesn't need some Vunderlube to make his AR run. PLenty of people here get them to run bone dry (for a short time anyways). That is how Sabre test-fires for function in fact. So you are saying that the cosmoline stopped up the bore AFTER firing a few shots? Sounds like some reloads/squib load to me... Exactly. You mean to tell me that if I use hoppes I could have a malfunction, and simply switching to CLP would cure it??? Come on!!!! These rifles are not that sensitive! And taking a new AR out of the box without cleaning it should be no problem. If its packed with cosmoline, then yes clean the shit off. But any AR on the shelf of any dealer, you can stick a mag in it and it will run. A bone dry AR should run 250-500 rounds before malfunction.
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List examples which represent how typical this is. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that you are wrong so far as what I've seen. Always looking for better info. Do you have it? Someone at work had a KAC rifle that refused to work without preposterous amounts of lube, as soon as it dried out a little it would start short stroking. We couldnt try out a different bolt because no one else had one of thier style bolts/carriers, so we tried switching buffer weights and stuff around, but could never get the thing to run without tons of lube. Thats one out of like 3 I have seen around here, so not really a good sample size, but I guess it does happen. for what its worth the gun that worked the best around here was also a KAC. |
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Ok lets simmer down guys.
First off, I have shot XM193 through my E3 all year , at 3 gun matches and 300 yard matches (local gun club thing), no problems, even right out of the box with NO lube. Second, take 030's advise, send that puppy in for a check up, then report back, those that don't have first hand experience, lets keep the speculation and hearsay out of this thread. |
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Initially sent in upper. KAC replaced the BCG, I think. Once received, I went out and shot it with 1 malfunction. I ended up sending it back and KAC did a great job of refunding my $ this past week. i think some people are missing this from the OP Yep, reading is fundamental. |
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