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Posted: 10/4/2008 4:19:44 PM EDT
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Here's your homework assignment! Assignment #2 Assignment #3 That should keep you busy for awhile. I strongly suggest you purchase a Team Membership. This gives you unlimited access to the Archives and Search Engine. Every question you can ever ask or think of has been asked already and is in the archives somewhere. Welcome to the disease! ZM |
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ZekeMenuar - WOW, that is some fantastic information! I've been reading since you posted and already I'm learning a lot. Thanks a million! CLICKBANGBANG - As for what I like so far... well don't flame me if I don't completely understand my choices but I like the 16" barrel option, chrome lined, flat-top upper, adjustable stock, optics later on, and somewhere in the above links I read about a mid-length gas system- I like what I read about that. As far as brands, the only brand I've heard of prior to doing any research was Colt and Bushmaster. Now I'm seriously looking at Noveske. It seems like the N4 Light Recce Basic 16" has everything I want in an entry-level Noveske AR. Looks like I can do plenty of additions later on. Here is the link to it: http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=r-lrb-556&cat=47&page=1&search=&since=&status= What do you think? BTW, thanks again for the great links- I plan to read them thoroughly in the next couple of days. |
I think you have to be printing $100 bills in your basement. Colt and Noveske is very good stuff. If you have the money get the best you can afford. Set aside money for ammo, reloading, specialty tools for the AR and training. If there is training available in your area, do it. There is one more thread here about what parts break in a carbine class. It's pretty long but there is a lot of good info in it. This is one I built based partially on the "carbine class" thread. I like simple AR's. It doesn't get much simpler than this.  |
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LOL, well the Noveske I was looking at is $1425, which is a couple hundred dollars more than what I planned to spend but if we're talking spending a couple hundred more for something that is going to last for years longer or a lifetime, I'm all for it. I did take a hard look at Bushmaster in the beginning, which seems to be pretty reasonably priced. I am still looking at them, just not sure yet. I plan to go to some local shops to talk to some guys and see what they have and recommend. I also am not very patient, so I won't wait 6-8 weeks to a gun to arrive. Timeline will be a major factor in what I end up ultimately buying. |
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When I bought AR #1. I bought a complete Stag lower first. Then bought a complete upper from another company later on. One popular option is to buy a stripped lower then buy a rifle kit, like this one. This kit for example has a complete assembled upper, lower parts kit and adjustable stock. Add your stripped lower and you can build an AR in an hour with no special tools. There are several board sponsors here that might have something you want in stock. Also if you buy the gun in pieces, you avoid paying a %11 federal excise tax on complete firearms. |
| I started with a Bushmaster and have never looked back. What to start with will depend heavily on what your primary purpose for buying it is (home defence, recreation, hunting.) If it's just fun at the range and possible defence. I'd stick with a standard 1 to 9" twist chrome lined barrel (the most common type.) 16" carbines are the most popular barrel length. I personally prefer A3 type rifles (removeable carry handle) so that optics can be mounted down the road. Past that it all comes down to maufacturer preference and budget. |
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Thanks for your continued advice guys! I've begun looking at Stag Arms quite a bit. They have a "T" (tactical) version that comes with the rails to install goodies, all for $1125. I figure for the price of the Noveske I can get a Stag 2T, cleaning kit, lots of extra mags and a rail-mounted light. The optics will come later. I really, really like the Stag 2T, I think it may be a keeper. I've got a few weeks yet so I'm going to keep looking. Thanks again for your advice, keep it comin! |
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I just bought a NOVESKE yesterday from RAINIERARMS. Of all the AR's that I have owned in the past, this one is definitely the nicest. Fit/finish overall quality is fantastic! This is the model that I purchased. I tried ordering one back in May from NOVESKE, but was told there was a slight wait. I called RAINIERARMS on Thursday, and to my luck they had one in stock. 
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I concur. + 1 for Noveske and LMT I have both. You can't go wrong with Colt(still need to get one) And a +1 for Rainier Arms. Sir James... |
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Well, so far I'm thinking: Stag Arms 2T Streamlight TLR-1 w/remote Lasermax LMS-UNI red w/remote (10) 30-rd Magpul mags Hogue rubber grip Cleaning kit Sling Prices out at $1,696.85 without shipping. Of course those prices are straight from each manufacturers website, if I checked online I'd no doubt find a better price on every item. I'm planning on adding a decent scope for distance shooting later on, probably something in the area of $300-500. My local range has 100-yard rifle lanes and that's about the only place I'd get to shoot so I'd need to optic-up for that range. For home protection the light and laser will do the trick. Of course not all of the above is set in stone but I have done a fair amount of research and feel like a have a pretty middle of the road weapon. What do you guys think? |
I would say start with a better gun and worry about accesories later. The mags are important though. If you want 10 Pmags I say go for it. I'd look into an LMT Defender which I think will be the least expensive of the top tier rifles. Forget about the visible laser and the TLR-1. If you only want a rail to mount a flashlight, you could look into one of the picitany mounts that clamps to the front sight base with a surefire light on there. As far as slings I would say either Gear Sector or Vickers Tactical. If you are not planning on running this gun hard then the Stag is fine. Just make sure you stake the bolt carrier properly and replace the bolt with one from BCM or LMT. That way you know it is GTG. Or buy a complete carrier assembly from BCM or LMT and sell off the CMT one that comes with it. I would save the money from the lasermax and put it toward an Aimpoint. I would save the money on the streamlight and put it toward a Surefire. The grip is subjective. I like the Tango down and the Magpul MIAD. Some like the ergo and the hogue as well. You'll just have to find out which one suits you the best. I would hold off on that for now because you may just as well like the A2 grip that comes standard. |
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Hmm, good advice! Makes sense. Nicer gun and slowly add accessories. I guess I've just been bitten by the BRD so bad I want it all now, just need to slow my role a bit. I'll take your advice and do some more research before I go ape and order everything at once. Thanks man! In looking at some of the rifle choices I really, really like the uppers that allow the addition of accessories. The plastic-looking uppers don't really appeal to me. I first started looking at the following Noveske: Click Here but its just too plain for me. I've been drooling over this one for quite some time, that's just a heck of a lot of money. Click Here What do you guys think? The problem is I only like the expensive uppers- that expensive taste has gotten me into trouble all my life. |
| Why dont you get a Colt 6920 ($1195 shipped from Midwest Distributors) and add a Daniel Defense Omega rail for $250 and you have the exact same rifle you've been drooling over for $400 less? Plus it's a Colt which is the closest you're going to get to an actual M4. I have this EXACT same set-up that I purchased last week and couldn't be happier. Plus the Colt will hold it's value much better than any other brand out there. I realize guns are not an investment, but it's nice to know if you HAD to sell it you could get most of your money back. |
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I would definately go for the Colt, Noveske, or LMT. If you're talking about spending that kind of money, I would look into a complete LMT MRP. A complete MRP rifle will have the SOPMOD stock (my personal favorite) and an Ergo grip. The rail system and upper receiver are all one piece of machined aluminum. Check out the MRP thread in the Uppers, Barrels, Lowers, and more section of this site. Considering the quality of LMT, and all the goodies that come with the MRP (SOPMOD stock, Ergo grip, built in rail system), I think that is a killer deal. Check out MSTN.biz |
That, my friend, is a good idea. Do you have a link to Midwest Distributors? I cant seem to find them online. On a side note, I think I found what I want. The best of both worlds. I really like the idea of a Noveske but I also want the nicer upper. This is what I found. It's the Noveske N4 Light Basic but I have an option to add the OMEGA Rail for $210 more. Its perfect!! What do you guys think? |
Okay, just so you know where my knowledge is, I had to go to the LMT website to figure out what a BCG was. Could you do me a favor? If you were to build a very very nice LMT rifle, (tier 2 or lower tier 3) would you post the description of each part you would buy? I mean, one could always buy the most expensive of everything LMT but that doesnt necessarily mean its the best. If I bought one of each of what you recommend is that enough parts for a complete rifle? Do I need extra parts? Just curious, I'm not sold on building it myself but I am starting to think about it. Especially if I can have a quality rifle for under $1K. I'd be able to put another $1K in accessories if that's the route I took. My personal budget is probably $2250 for a gun and accessories. |
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What he was describing was a complete rifle, minus a rear sight. There is really nothing to "build" if you went that route. The lower is already pieced together, as is the upper. The only thing you would have to would be to put the two halves together and push the takedown pins in. A chimpanze could do that. Even cleaning your AR15 is more complicated than that, so don't let the word "building" intimidate you. I am glad you want to do it right the first time. I see so many people that want to buy the most dirt cheap AR they can get and then load it up with all the Tapco or CTD stuff they can buy. |
Edited to link what the OP was referring to. That would get you an assembled rig. Nice, cheap, and great quality. You would just need a buis(back up iron sight) or detachable carry handle for the rear sight and you have a rifle thats GTG. Then get the bitch shoot her and decide what you want to do with the rifle. To many options with the AR platform to easily plan ahead of time. Try to find others at the range with parts you would like for your rifle and ask to try out. You might think you will like stock A, but stock B might get you better cheek weld and faster shot on target, or Tango down battle grip might be a better hand hold for you verses the ergo grip. Its really hard to tell what you want by looking at pics. |
Okay that makes me feel better. I'm used to field stripping pistols, it sounds even easier than that to build. Thanks for the enlightenment! I do feel better about "building", that term actually makes me chuckle a little now that I see its more like putting a couple of pieces together. Thanks Glockin for filling in the blanks. So, guys...say I want to spend a liiiiittle more for some fancier features on an LMT, or another manufacturer for that matter. Would it be beneficial to upgrade the above parts? I see all sorts of lower options, are there more that may be better? I'm not sure what all of those lower options are. Also, I really like the monolithic rail platforms. I might go that route and maybe a lower-priced lower. Hmmm, it seems now that I'm getting more comfortable with the idea that I have even a harder choice at this point. LOL, thanks guys! |
There are no different tiers of LMT. LMT is a Tier one manufacturer. Your best bet is doing as stated before and getting an LMT lower, upper and BCG, pushing the pins in and calling it a day. Buy some mags and ammo and take it out shooting. Then decide what accessories, if any you are going to need/want. You will need to get a BUIS for it though. Larue or LMT for fixed or Troy for flip up. |
| Getwild, there are so many options that it makes things very hard to decide. Its all in what you want. My thoughts are build the basics with a good quality lower and upper and then as you get to know the platform upgrade from there. Its addictive and usually doesn't stop at just one Black Rifle! The MRP upper is nice and if that suits what you want start with that and get the cheaper lower. Then if you don't like the collapsible butt stock, or pistol grip you can easily change it out for something else. |
Okay, you guys are finally talking some sense into me. I tend to jump into things with both feet, and you're right...I'm sure this won't be my last black rifle so why not start out moderate and see what I like. GunshineState- I do really like the DD Omega Rail but I'm not sure how I would integrate it with the LMT setup above. I'm looking at the DD's on Rainier Arms and there are so many, could someone explain the difference? As you've read in this post, I really like the quad rail setup. I tend to mod things I purchase pretty heavily and I dont expect my AR to be any different. While I will wait before going nuts on mods, I do want the ability to do so. |
The omega rail drops in just like the standard plastic hand guards. The DD lite rail requires you to actually replace the barrel nut with a proprietary one. Basically the DD Lite is much harder to install but it is really nice. No matter what brand AR you buy you can put a rail on it. What you need to do is get your first purchase out of the way then when you have the gun in your hands and become more familiarised with how everything goes together you will have a better understanding of what parts you could change out and how they would be changed out |
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I have the enchanced BCG...In my OP, no need for it. Go with the Standard. 2-Stage trigger is not a must have...They are nice, but if it is going to be a blasting rifle, no need for it. Stock - Start out standard, you can always change it later if you want to. I personally like the Magpul CTR and they can be had for < $100. Rail options are up to you...You can purchase a free float or non free float. I like the drop in's for my blasting rifle. A 10 minute change. |
Thanks for the info!! I'm going to go with the standard BCG but the F/A instead of the S/A. As far as rail options- I'm still learning about those. No idea what free float, non free float or drop in all means. I assume drop in does just that, drops in, lol. I'm not looking for something incredibly difficult to install due to my lack of gunsmithing ability, however I'm going for that 4-sided rail system. I like the OMEGA DD but am clueless when I look at Rainier Arms' 12 different DD models. |
Beautiful! That's perfect right there! Would you happen to have a bigger image? I want to get a better look at your RAS. Can you explain the "H buffer"? That term is new to me. |
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2 stage triggers are "better" they let you shoot more accurately. intead of pulling the trigger until it shoots - you pull a little but then it stops - like it hits a bump - then you add a little more pressure and it fires. As far as rails - the regular ones install by pulling back the delta ring (handguard spring loaded retainer) pulling out your old handguards then putting the new ones in. takes about 30 seconds. The free float: free floats your barrel so that no matter how you hold the gun there is no toque on the barrel resulting in slightly better accuracy. You have to remove the front sight base and FH(flash hider). Then screw off the delta ring - take everything off and instal the new one - with the right tools it would take about 30-40 mins. Someone posted a tutorial video not to long ago that you should be able to find. Hope this helps and have fun! |
   H buffer slowers down the BCG. The H buffer helps the gun to be more reliable. LMT's come with a carbine buffer. |
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^ That is pretty much the exact same setup I have. The only difference is I have a SOPMOD stock, LMT rear BUIS, and a Surefire G2 LED on mine though. I love the SOPMOD stock. I should have just bought it from the start, instead of spending money on a plain M4 style stock that is now just sitting in the gun safe. |
I like the sounds of the "regular" rails (non-free float). I really like the DD OMEGA rails but I have no clue which ones would fit the LMT upper. Does anyone know? I'm looking at Rainier Arms HERE. I see a bunch of sizes and types but no idea which size. I'm assuming the 10.0, 12.0, etc. are the lengths. Thanks, as always guys!!! |
Basically AR15 parts are interchangable. An LMT, Colt, Bushmaster, etc carbine will accept the same size drop in rails: 7". When you start talking about free float rails it's a little different. I have 10" Free float rails on my carbine so that the gasblock is covered completely. My front sight it a flip up that is mounted on the rail. The amount of options is almost endless with these rifles. Omega rails will fit your rifle in the 7" or Carbine gas system size. I prefer rails that eleminate the entiere delta ring assembly. Such as the DD Lite or Troy MRF. Do you have any gunsmiths in your area that deal with AR15s at all? If so they would be able to install a rail systme for you if you were not comfirtable doing it yourself. |
H Buffer @ Bravo Company USA Bravo Company is one of the site sponsors and a great place to do business with. |
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Unfortunately my local gunsmiths are overpriced and overbooked. I like the price point of the DD Lite. I might be able to install it though. Is this what you were talking about? http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/050e3bff131a7a311a33319aca74f495.jpg Not a bad price @ $265. This is a free-float like you mentioned right? Makes a seamless connection to the upper? That's at least what the description says. |
Kick ass build! once its built send it to me for some testing and I will let you know if it is safe to shoot!  Dont forget to get lots of ammo!
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No problem my friend. We all have to contract the Black Rifle Disease somewhere . It look's like you will have a great build going on there. Once you have the gun in your hands and see how it all works you will get a far better understanding of the platform as well. This will be your first but I guaruntee not your last. Also, you are in the fortunate position of getting a gun that you will never have buyers remorse on. Every components on that list - LMT gun and SOPMOD, Daniel Defense, Troy, Magpul are all top shelf. The one suggestion I would make now is calling the place that you will be ordering the upper from. If you get the LMT upper from Ranier Arms they can probably install the DD Lite rail for you so it's ready to go as soon as you open the box |
That's good advice. Unfortunately I see that they are out of stock on the 16" upper I want but I'm not ordering for a week or two so maybe they'll stock up by then. If so I'll definitely take your advice, that would be great. Know anything about lights and optics? hering I'm thinking I want a scope instead of something like an Aimpoint. These are my thoughts. The primary purpose for this gun is plinking at the range at a distance of 100 yards, maybe shorter if I can find a range with a shorter distance. Anyway, that's too far for an Aimpoint. The secondary purpose for this gun MAY be home protection- I dont know though, I live in an apartment and I worry about rounds through walls. Then again I'd have that concern no matter what, honestly I need to pick up a shotty sometime for that purpose. So I'm thinking I want an actual scope in the place of an Aimpoint. I dont want to drop another $1000 in buying an Aimpoint and scope combo- mounting them both. I'm not made of money, lol. As for light I'm thinking a moderate Surefire or Streamlights are REALLY reasonable. Honestly the light will hopefully never be used, so why drop $500+ on one. I'd also like a Lasermax red-dot, those can be had with remote for about $200. I figure it would be a good investment since I'm not going the route of an Aimpoint. So to sum it up- I have a scope for the range, a light and laser combo for come protection. All set. Thoughts?? |
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As for optics I have an ACOG, Aimpoint and a 3x Magnifier. If your planning on shooting 100 yards or less an Aimpoint will be just fine. I don't see the point of investing another $200 in a visible laser when that can be put towards a red dot that will serve you much better or a weaponlight. An Aimponit T1 Micro on a Larue mount would fit that build like a glove. If you ever felt the need for magnification you could always get an Aimpoint 3x Magnifier to mount behind it. That is just my take one it. I hardly use my ACOG anymore because the farthest I ever shoot is 100 yards. I would take an AR over a shotgun for home defense anyday. There have been a bunch of threads about this and a few schools of thought. |
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