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Posted: 8/26/2008 9:21:00 AM EDT
| Should I get a .223 upper, 6.8 SPC upper or 7.62x39 AR upper? |
The 7.62x51 won't (it requires an AR-10 lower) - unless you get the 7.62x51 belt fed upper, but IIRC BRP Corp (of Clinton MD) are out of those. |
The new 5.45x39 upper would be the cheapest for plinking, and is on par with the 5.56 round for hunting and home defense. The only downside to the 5.45x39mm round is that the surplus that is soo cheap is all currosive, which is a non issue if you clean your rifle after every time you shoot it. 5.56 ammo is ~$0.35/Round 5.45 ammo is ~$0.12/Round -ThaChad |
5.45 might be cheaper to shoot, but there are many "more better" loads available in 5.56 right now. Hornady TAP, Mk262, etc. Yeah, you can get 70gr Wolf 5.45, but Wolf is not premium self defense type ammo... |
You forgot .50 BMG and 8mm Mauser. 
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Surplus ammo is the same ammo that the militaries across the world use.... If it's good enough for men on the front lines where life and death is depending on that ammo, Then its good enough for me in the 1 in 1000000000000000000000 chance i'd ever need it for my own defense. I'm sorry but I seriously doubt 1-2 rounds center mass any human is going to live to talk about it. These super fancy rounds may look better on paper, or in simulated tests, but If it was the best thing for killing people, the military would be using it, cost doesn't matter, as its all our tax money paying for it. I love the 5.56 round, don't get me wrong. But for what he stated his use was for it, There is no reason the 5.45 round would not be equally as effective for his intended uses... Especially at less than 1/2 the cost per round..... I'd rather have 5000 Good rounds, than 1000 Great rounds. -ThaChad |
You'd be wrong
Some of it (MK262) is in use. I even know of a unit at Bragg that gets 75gr OTM delivered by the pallet But that doesn't mean the entire Army gets it. I don't know what you do but I know you are neither in the Military nor work with Defense Contractors if you think they get a free reign to spend whatever they want and get the best of everything. |
Quoted for truth and accuracy of information |
http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/index.php |
As others have noted, the 5.56 is the way to go for a 'one and only'. Lots of specialized calibers out there, but the basic military round is the place to start. If you like the platform but aren't satisfied in some way, then you can try another caliber. Moon |
| I own both 7.62x39 and 5.56 AR's and I prefer the 7.62. If you use c-products mags you will not experience feed problems. 7.62 ammo is slightly cheaper and more versatile since you can legally hunt large game (not long range) and take out a threat with one shot instead of 2-3. Plus the added bang is more fun. M4's are cool but a 7.62x39 A2 carbine is a blast. |
Let me guess.. You also think .22lr isn't deadly because its "Just a .22"? At close range (Self Defense) I seriously doubt you will get much better/different results from 5.56 vs 5.45. Even at longer ranges, The 5.56 only fragments if a handfull of things are "Just Right" otherwise the bullet just yaw's, which the 5.45 bullet is also known for. For the 3 items that were listed as the use for this upper, I have not seen any reason the 5.45 would not be a great choice. But again, I love 5.56 too, The ever increasing cost of 5.56 is what makes me turn more toward the 5.45 round. After all, If you can't afford to shoot/practice with it, you might as well just buy a sling shot. As I said before I'd rather have 5000 good rounds, than 1000 great rounds. (I just noticed in your sig that your an AK hater anyway, so you'll argue to no end just because the 5.45 is a soviet round) -ThaChad |
 There is a difference beteen "Posibiity of lethal', 'stops the threat immediately' and 'Dies weeks later of septis'.
Again you're wrong. Consult "Wounding patterns of military rifle bullets", Martin L. Fackler,International Defense Review, 1/1989, pp. 59-64 for more details on the military rounds. And consult some of the work of Dr Roberts for the Mk262 and 75gr OTM. Much of this has even been graciously preserved in the Ammo forum for people such as yourself.
Talking about stretching the truth. Fregmentation is depending on specific criteria. That criteria depends on the bullet. There are a variety of 5.56 bullets that will fragmetn reliably (Hornady and Nosler OTMs are some examples) and even more that reliably expand. The only one I'd worry about NOT fragmenting reliably at typical social distances would be M855 from a carbine - which nobody recommends as a 'Go-to' round.
Considering all your assumptios were wrong I can. I can also see one more. If you want cheap shooting, easy training of new shooters, or need to shoot on indoor ranges nothing beats .22lR. All the.22 conversion kits on the market work with .223/5.56 their chamber adapters will not fit in the chamber of a 5.45.
I can do both - cheap practice with .22LR, and the best in 22 caliber defense ammo with 75gr TAP.
Talk about seeing something that isn't there. I suppose you're one of those that belives if you don't vote for Barak you're a racist? The only merit 5.45 has is it's cheaper. It's corrosive, it's terminal performanc is lacking, it's not reloadable, there is NO domestic manufacture of it, and quite frankly .22LR is far cheaper. |
Because YOU say so? Your another worthless poster of BS based on your BIAS opinion. Yet another AK hater. Your the type I'd love to shoot with a 5.45 round and when your lying flat on your back bleeding to death, stand over you and ask "Believe me now?" I'm done replying to your posts, because frankly its a waste of my time falling on the deaf ears of someone soo set in their wrong ways you can't tell them anything. For the origional poster, for your use get 5.56 or 5.45 and you will be happy, For sake of argument, just get the 5.56 simply because there's more support/information/options available. -ThaChad |
Wow missed the references I posted from some of the top Terminal Ballistic reserchers in the world? Did missing your nap make you grumpy? I'll be glad when schools back in session. |
Look, I'll try and be nice here. The 5.45 round is decent in performance. It is similar to the 5.56 round, but there are far better bullets for the 5.56 which make the 5.45 completely useless in comparison. Yes, the 5.45 round is cheaper. Yes, it's better than nothing at all. It is not better than the 5.56 overall with the proper application of bullet. And yes, you're wrong based on the leading experts in the area of ballistic research. You have an opinion based on nothing b/c you've never taken the 5.45 round into combat or direct fire action, and have probably not even done any informal testing with the round. These experts being referred to have taken real world results, along with a specific testing regiment, and published their findings. It can't be any more black and white than that. And I happen to love the x39 rounds. I have plenty of AK/PSL/SKS weapons and experience. I am also smart enough to know the difference between my gut feelings and scientific facts... |
Several COC violations. Check your IMs. |
DTECH is in northern MN and offers a variety of calibers, including WSSM. www.dtechsuperstore.com/Wildcat.htm
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Why do the newbs always come in with no education on a subject and act like they know WTF they are talking about? Yes 5.45 is as effective as 5.56 and FMJ handgun ammo is just as effective as the best modern HP ammo... You know, I saw a cool show on the Discovery channel jus tthe other night where a guy had a freak auto accident and a piece of rebar flew through the windsheild, popped him in the forehead, and exited the back of his skull. He had to be restrained becasue he was wide awake and wanted to pull the bar out of his brain that had impailed his head to the headrest and he had full use of his right hand. He made a recovery and only has the symptoms of a stroke... one hand like Bob Dole but he can walk around. The human body can sometimes fall to the smallest wound or survive devastating trauma. It is always better to select something like MK262 or better yet 5.56 TAP to stack the deck in your favor vs a non fragmenting round like the 5.45 rounds. The permanant wound channel sizes are not close. To the OP, get a 5.56 upper. |
You also quoted saying you want this for: 'Hunting, home/self defense, and plinking.' It sounds like you have an AR already and want an upper to use for the three items you mentioned. That being the case, I would recommend the 6.8 SPC. It is a tremendous hunting round, legal in all states that allow center fire rifles. It has great ammo choices for the home/self defense. Plinking is where it gets expensive, but only if you don't happen to reload. Last but not least, every major manufacturer makes rifles/uppers for the 6.8 (except Colt)!!! Check out 68forums.com here: www.68forums.com/ It has by far the most information on the 6.8 SPC and a great group of people that are more than willing to answer your questions.  Take care, Cohibra45 |
 Wow. Are you serious?
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