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Posted: 7/21/2008 6:22:23 PM EDT
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Fellow Enthusiasts, First let me say, I know people are very opionionated about their choice of rifle, and some will engage in bitter , often savage discussions about brand comparisons, but this isnt what this question is about. We all hear, and have probably seen evidence of BM drop off in QC of late, but I was wondering when this occurred? I for one, am a happy BM owner with an on-going project rifle circa 2003-2004 build going now. Ive changed a few things here and there since i bought the rifle new in 03' and was wondering if we could set aside brand loyalty for a few, and have a good informative discussion on tthis one. |
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Bushmaster sells more civi AR's than any other manufacturer, so nightmare stories are naturally going to be more common. Speaking from experience, Bushmasters are excellent for the average civilian (like me). Many of the features touted on here as being "essential" are trivial unless you are going to regularly run your gun hard. Bushmasters are definitely not the best AR's on the market. But they work well and I would not be afraid to use one as a defensive rifle. P.S. If you're looking to run one in a carbine course, stake the carrier key and you should be OK. |
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I dont regualrly run my rifles hard but its good to know that the components ive chosen are capable of doing it if need be and there are a select few who offer those types of parts and assemblies.Im an average AR owner but I prefer above average compoenets even if im not running the rifle hard all the time..Id rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Bushmaster is not at the level of others offerings in the more critical areas of Bolts and barrels and carriers wich is why ive rebuilt my factory Bushmasters with the components that are made to be run hard.I laso think that if your gonna stamp something MP than it should be individualy MP inspected.In the end its what you want and what you expect from your weapon from use in situations perceived or otherwise encountered. |
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I was looking at a Bushy carbine in the fun shop just today. I was seriously tempted. The quality on it looked excellent. I've never owned a Bushmaster but from having been around the hobby for many years I believe their quality is just fine. P.S. Also in the fun shop today they had an FAL! |
| I had a chance in 86 to get a commonwealth FAL..love that rifle.ARs remind me of them the way they break down plus the pistol grip inline configuration.I love my M14 and think its more accurate but the recoil on the FAL felt less and follow up shots were quicker like on an AR,the feel is about the same except the .308..shoulda snagged that just didnt have the $1200 at the time for what this guy wanted for it. |
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here's my take, and i sell em all the time: ive probably sold 30 or more bushys of all types since i started in the gun business about 6 months ago. ive shot a lot of our customers guns who are now my friends. i have yet to see one totally fail. there have been some FTEs a couple times, but after a good cleaning that goes away. i think theyre a good deal for the money if youre joe schmo and know shiz about AR rifles. if you run your rifle hard and would stake your life on said rifle, id say dont buy a bushmaster, build a gun yourself. i dont trust their BCGs and i dont think their trigger is anything to write home about. i think theyre accurate enough but anyone who mass produces so many firearms is bound to have some flops in QC in a batch or two. the last 12 we bought looked like crap in exterior finish. we just got in another order of 5 and they look awesome. who knows. . . maybe the QC guy sleeps sometimes on his shift. |
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I've had a Bushy Carbine a couple of years, fed it MilSurp, Commercial, Wolf, and 22.lr via Ceiner adapter, Nary a problem, FTF, Nada. If however Civil War II ever fires up I think I'll put it in the gun safe and pick up a liberated Colt, Issue type. I hear so many good things about them, Army & Marines have done well with them and there will be no need for paperwork as everybody will have one, well, 'cept in Kalifornia, they will be using Thompson Center Hawkens. Both sides can surrender and put in for foreign aid at either Capitol, Pocotallo, I daho or Corn Cob, Georgia...  |
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I am a 4 time Bushmaster owner. Every gun I ve had purchased from 2005 to 2007 have had to return to the factory more than 3 to 5 times each. It was very annoying. The only good thing was that Bushmaster paid for shipping each way. Overnight to them and then ground back to me which was slow as hell. The gun got more and more scratched up each time it came back- the finish was missing from somewhere on the gun. The last time I was so pissed about the canted front sight being returned to me the 5th time that I called Bushmaster President Richard Dyke personally and told him about the problem. I received a call back asap from his secretary apologizing for the bad fixes. Then the next call was from Bushmaster Customer Service Manager who apologized for my problems. Then the next call was from Bushmaster Master Gunsmith Jim Eden saying Mr. Dyke said to give you whatever you want so I will custom build an upper with flip up front and rear sights for you and whatever else you want. So my M4A3 carbine became somewhat of a custom gun after being warrantied for defects. Now my guns all work properly but it did take a bunch of leg work. After this I got a Bushmaster Piston gun. The upper and lower fit was very loose. You could feel the upper and lower move significantly by shaking or just using your hands. The gun was quite expensive to have rattle. It jammed too while shooting in the Nevada desert. Gun had to be sent back 3 times. 3rd time I called Jim Eden again and he personally fixed the gun as he remembered me from a few months back. Now I got back a gun that has a tight fitting upper with zero play. They tossed in a accu wedge too but I did not need it. |
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After a few short strokes during the first 150 rounds our new bushmaster has run 100% on all ammo used incl. steel cased Monarch (Russian), PMC, Federal 5.56 and Winchester 5.56. Good fit and finish on this one too. Ours is a 20" A3 and with the right ammo I'm sure would be a 1 MOA gun. This is our second Bushmaster. Never really had any problems with my first one (a carbine) except for a worn extractor which I replaced. I added an O ring too.. I'd buy another Bushmaster. EMSflyer |
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Thanks for the replies so far. Heres what ive noticed about mine. Ive stripped it to the bone, and actually compared it the LMT CQB MRP sitting next to it in my gun room, and all of the usual complaints that i hear from most people like the improperly staked gas key etc isnt a problem on this one. They staked this one so good, it wouldve made Dracula cringe. I know I probably got lucky, but HOOYAH! Ive replaced the original upper from the 16' Heavy barrel to a M4 type upper with surefire M73 foreend. Eotech 512. Tangodown Vertical grip. ACE SOCOM stock. Hogue grip, and finally the Troy BUIS. From what i can tell this one will rock with its LMT or Colt counter parts. I would be surprised if it didnt. I have a LMT CQB MRP gas piston rifle on order anxiously awaiting delivery |
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Got a Bushmaster 16" here. Other then choking on too dry a setup and dirty ammo (Guess which brand). I haven't had a single issue. If you run it wet or at least not bone dry it will eat anything. The gun I am eye balling now is the AA 6.5. Waiting for approval from the steering comitee (wife). |
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I've got two Bushys and nary a problem - with the exception of one FTE/jam. And that, of course, was my doing: I wanted to see what I could run through it w/o cleaning. Using nothing but Wolf, the failure finally happened at around 800 rds - over three or four sessions. Personally, I find them to be perfectly acceptable rifles - especially, for the price. And, lord knows, I would never let my rifle get that fouled in the field! Would I stake my life on either of them? Probably. But, I'd also pick up something a bit more robust, if I survived the 1st day. Sorry to hear some of you guys have had such issues. Like's been said, you make that many rifles . . . |
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I bought a couple Bushmaster lower receivers in 2003. They all turned out to be good rifles, but the markings on the sides (the snake) were different quality. One of them I wouldn't have let through QC. It was a very weak strike. In the early 90s I had a complete Bushmaster rifle. It functioned flawlessly, but it had, what I thought, was alot of slop between the upper and lower receiver. An accuwedge tightened it up. I can't speak for there current rifles as I don't own one. my 2 cents |
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IMHO they are like some other manufacturers. They make good bbls, and I like them for building AR's. My SBR build has a BM bbl, and I've been very happy with it. I've had a comblete BM upper in the distant past, but wasn't totally happy with it. I prefer to buy quality parts, and assemble an AR to my (affordable) likes. This holds true for other manufacturers. IMHO DBAR |
the problem with bushmaster is not that they've had a "drop-off in QC", but rather the internet has given voice to a ton of people who don't know what they are talking about and continue to spread things they've heard as fact. the above post is a perfect example. bushmaster does indeed use the correct method to stake carrier keys, but somewhere along the line someone said they don't, and now people here repeat it ad nauseum. ETA: and to prove my point, even the OP opened up his bushy and the carrier key was *miraculously* staked correctly... 
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Exactly what i noticed about mine when i compared to the LMT. Both were staked so tight that it would take some real, and i mean REAL effort to remove it. I can see no problems in the manufacturing or assembly. |
| My first AR was a Bushy. It is nearly 20 years old and has been modified over time. But is has been as reliable of a gun as anyone could want. It has survived numerous courses and even some neglect from time to time. But I know that if it's oiled, it will shoot. What more could you want? |
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I used to be all Bushie, all the time ! My first was an 11.5"/5.5 carbine from 1989. It worked well at first, but after a few hundred rounds started into short stroking. Sent the upper back and it was returned a week later and has been flawless ever since. Second was a 20" HBAR A2 with full fluting in 1990. It has been 100% flawless since the day it was built and has about 5500-6000 rounds downrange. Most accurate weapon I own. Then came number three; a 14.5" M4A2 in 2005. I'm convinced that the dealer either sold me a used piece or messed it up themselves. Right out of the box, the weapon was filthy and just didn't look right. Had the "bug" so bad, I decided to throw caution out the window and go ahead and get it anyway. when I finally got this thing to the range, it shot 2 1/2 feet left at fifty yards! On furthur examination, the barrel nut had a few teeth stripped off, and was all chewed up. Sent it to Bushie and had it back in twelve days along with almost all new parts except the barrel itself. Even came with a test target and note from Mr. Eden. That is the extent of my Bushie experience because from that point on a bunch of other options became available, and my horizons were expanded to include new Colt LE models, CMMG, and ArmaLite. I would still buy another Bushie, but not without a real close inspection. 
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please bear in mind, i'm not saying that bushmaster makes the BEST product out there or anything. i'm just trying to help people understand that 1) bushy still makes a good, solid, product like they always have, and 2) most of the "problems" you hear about are not just overblown, but also wildly inaccurate. in my opinion: you can do a little better then an off-the-shelf bushmaster. but you can do a LOT worse as well. |
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Bushmaster makes fine parts, but (as with others) they don't always get put together correctly. The majority of the time, I'm sure they are just fine. When you build that many AR's, there are a few that will slip through. With that being said. The growth of the internet has created a lot more experts. DBAR |
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I bought a Bushmaster in April , I bought it for two reasons because I was in a rush and it was the ONLY Massachusetts compliant one my local dealer had in stock . I fired 620 rounds through it and NO problems ( other than magazine related ) the fit & finish is awesome although the gas key was not properly staked I sent it back to them and they re-staked it , and while its better than before its still not as good as the one I have from LMT Should I have to send their bolt carrier group back for such a simple procedure? absolutely not , especially when they're asking a premium price http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/ScottiDucati/lmtVbm.jpg |
| I've had my Bushmaster Modular Carbine for almost a year now. It is reliable as heck and the only issue I have with it is that I had to put a accuwedge in to take up the slop between the upper and lower receivers. It is my precision medium range shooter and I am happy with its performance so far. |
| The annoying thing about Bushmaster is that things that need to change are so simple but they just continue to do the same stupid things.They suposedly have people assembling weapons that know what they are doing..they should have someone checking that work to make sure its up to snuff..thats quality control.That carrier should have been sent back to be restaked before it left the factory and left to the customer to send back to have it restaked. |
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Agreed Platypus. Ham-fisted key staking (mangling) is not needed, even on a SHTF rifle. Bushy rifles are fine, just like Sabre and Armalite and most of the...others. Last time I checked, it was primarily some old dude named Eugene Stoner that designed this thing. Don't go out and immediately buy a brand name, like the "Tier 1, MPI'd" fetish fan boys. Look more at fit, finish and uniformity-like a good consistent trigger and non binding of the moving parts. I do own both Colt and Bushy product, BTW. Like 'em all, just fine! BTW-If you really want to piss off a Colt fan-boy, remind them that: 1.) Their trigger & hammer pins are not MILSPEC. 2.) Colt is consistently the lowest government bidder for the M4. 3.) Colt is financially solvent. They have only filed for bankruptcy like 6 times in 20 years. 4.) Colt would never sell out like Ruger and plug the lower receiver with gimmicky chingaderas or proprietary parts to appease the "anti's". 5.) Colt was thoughtful enough to screw together the upper and lower for you. 6.) Colt is 100% AMERICAN!!! Except when the Japanese owned them for a while... 7.) Samuel Colt invented the 1911, AR-15 and...the Colt 2000. 8.) Colt customer service and parts pricing is Tier 1 too...cough...cough... 9.) Colt MPIs' the front sight post. 10.) Colt rhymes with...Cult. Let the flame-tards heave ho! |
Thanks........I needed that.
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There is actually a thread on fanboy central.net where one of the regulars hit a co-workers perfectly functioning RRA BCG with the MOACKS. When it stopped working afterwards, it was seen as showing that the weapon is cheap.  I am sure it didn't have anything to do with modifying the part... 
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