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Posted: 5/28/2008 2:59:21 PM EDT
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My new Elite CAR A4 has the match trigger, and on my first trip to the range I was less than impressed with it. Or, more accurately, I was less than impressed with my results with it. I guess I was just too familiar with the standard 2-stage triggers that my M1A and other ARs have had in the past (and which I no longer have.) However, I believe a big part of the issue is the fact that I haven't done any shooting in probably 4 years, and just need to build my skills back up. So, the question is, how many rounds would you recommend putting through the rifle before deciding to install a standard 2-stage trigger? I was thinking about 1K or so. I do a fair amount of dry-firing, but it still doesn't feel right. |
| Thanks. The triggers on the ARs that I've owned, and the M16s I've been issued, sure felt like 2 stages - there was a definite point which I could pull up to and hold it there, and fire it with little more than a breath on the trigger. This one, however, is definitely not a 2-stage. You touch it with your index finger, and it fires with a very small amount of force applied. There's absolutely no takeup at all, it just fires. |
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OK, let me clarify. There's about 1/4" of "travel" before the trigger stops, and a slight amount of pressure at this point will fire the rifle. The "travel" feels more like "slop" than "take-up" to me, but maybe it is the 1st stage of the trigger. It doesn't feel like it's doing anything with the sear, it just feels like the trigger has to move 1/4" before it's in place to trip the sear. In comparison, my RPK trigger feels more like what I consider a 2-stage trigger to feel like - there's a small amount of slop, then as you keep pulling it you can feel the sear beginning to move. At a certain point you can stop, and know that another ounce of finger pressure will fire the rifle. ETA: When in doubt, open the damn thing up and look at what's going on. The 1/4" of movement in the trigger is definitely caused by the sear hook moving on the hammer. Any further pressure on the trigger will fire the rifle. So I guess it is a 2-stage, it just doesn't FEEL like any 2-stage I've ever used before. |
The RRA trigger you describe is the definition of a 2-stage trigger. If other triggers you consider "2-stage" don't feel like that, they're not 2-stage. AKs, Mosins, and I would guess your RPK, based on your description, don't have 2-stage triggers. They have long, creepy single stage triggers. |
| I was basing my description of a 2-stage trigger on the way my M1A's felt. It required some effort to pull it through the first stage and set it on the breaking point, whereas the RRA's first stage is so light and without any resistance whatsoever (and with quite a bit more travel than my M1A's had) that I wouldn't be surprised if I could get the trigger to wiggle back & forth by shaking the rifle. I'm not exaggerating by very much when I say I could blow on the front of the trigger and move it - the first stage is that light. I think that's what messes me up the most - going from a (for example) 4oz first-stage pull to a 4lb 2nd-stage pull. |
| Well after doing a couple hundred dry-fires a day since first starting this thread, I think the trigger & I have come to an understanding. It feels MUCH better now, most likely from a combination of my finger getting used to it and the dry-firing wearing the parts in. Now I just hope I can get to the range next weekend for some more shooting. The first stage is still very light - I can EASILY pull it by resting the tip of my thumb on the pistol grip and using the very tip of my pinky finger - but at least now I can fire it every single time without that telltale flicker of the eyelid that signals a flinch. |
| Muscle memory equals minimum 3000 cycles. Looks like your on your way. This is why practice is important. Also why a lot of time is spent at Police Ranges dry firing with new recruits. Plus its cheaper than using real ammo...............I've got 5 RRA NM triggers and probably end up with 6. I'm definitely satisfied.....................lol |
I find on my match triggers that I MUST use my fingertip pad to pull the trigger back. The normal grip on the AR pistol grip always seemed to put my second finger joint (not the fingertip pad) on the trigger. I finally solved this by replacing the standard grip with the Magpul MIAD (the thickest backstrap) which placed the grip perfectly. Now my fingertip is always on the trigger  PS, I have an RRA 2-stage match trigger on the way. It will live in my Colt Match HBAR lower... I am using CMC SuperMatch triggers (single stage) in three of my ARs, those are probably my favorite. The Timney is also a nice unit. 
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I've always used only the tip of my finger to pull triggers. And I don't have huge hands, but my first knuckle is what falls on the trigger if I just pick up the rifle. So I guess it's out with the Hogue and in with the Magpul. |
There are several on the market. There is a Bushmaster 2-stage NM trigger that is built into their DCM service rifle competition products; it can be purchased separately. If you like drop-ins the Timney unit seems pretty nice, and Chip McCormick will also sell you a two stage which complies with the CMP rules (4 12 lbs total pull, so a 3 1/2 lb first stage and a 1 lb second stage will meet the rule). The Timney and CMC drop-ins are nice in that the unit can be installed in minutes by a competent AR-15 armorer or gunsmith. So installation is reasonably low cost.
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