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Posted: 4/30/2008 1:57:01 PM EDT
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Black or blue? I can never remember 
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On a carbine, I would say big time. Rifle? Meh... I never had an issue on a 20", but I upgraded anyway. You should replace the extractor spring with the correct 5 coil spring at the same time. You probably hace a 4 coil spring, and it will not last long under heavy use in a carbine. Here is your easy fix. The first time you do it the spring will be hard to compress and you'll doubt yourself. Just muscle through it and you'll be in great shape. Bravo Company Extractor Spring Upgrade Kit |
I stand corrected. Perhapse Sabre was referring only to their line-up when they told me that. Is the gold spring "stiffer" than the 5-coil when installed? |
I'm with you, 12 gauge. I've never seen that before. And I thought the BCM kit was the bomb... |
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I'm getting slow, TheMocoMan beat me to it.............. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s204/TheMocoMan/AR-15%20Technical/Gold_Spring.jpg |
| There was an article about extractor springs in Guns magazine or whatever one it was. Anyway they stated the blue ones, the dfender, o rings, etc. They did however state that Chrome Silicon seemed to be the best and last forever. They also stated that if you use a Chrome Silicon spring, don't use an o-ring or defender in conjunction with a CS as it applies over 400% more spring tension which is way too much. |
Good question and I honestly don't know. The gold spring is MUCH stiffer than the spring I replace it with. But how it compared to the 5-coil I couldn't say. It's not that big of an issue. Some just like the added insurance. I'm not a fan of the o-ring as I feel it's an out-of-spec modification and can add that 400% more tension like the post above me stated. I mean Jesus Christ people the extractor is SUPPOSED to have some movement otherwise the fu** thing wouldn't work at all.  I'd leave well enough alone until you see problems. Recreational shooting with the blue insert and spring will probably last years. |
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There is only so much room for the spring. Why does everyone think that a five coil spring has to be stronger than a three or two coil one? home.earthlink.net/~bazillion/design.html#prin Just noticed the spell check is back. 
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Good link. It's the new math. |
There is no functional differenece. The color is only used a vsual marker for the installed spring type. There is ZERO benefit to using a black insert over a blue insert... not even a little bit. |
We disagree. Perhaps you are correct in regards to look alike parts. In USGI buffers the blue one is demonstratively squishier then the black one. I would not be surprised if commercial look alike buffers are available in different colors with many of them the same other then color. In USGI weapons the color of the buffer has never been a visual marker for the spring. The buffer and spring can be separated so the color of the buffer serves no purposes in ID'ing the spring. I will post up details with hand puppets, visual aids, here in a bit. |
That is my approach. One Quib directed me how to get the extractor off the bolt, I installed an o-ring that I have by the dozen already.A much simpler, quicker and cheaper way to make sure that the extractor was the cause of the double feeds on my 11 1/2" barrel. If it solves the problem then I may do the other upgrade when the o-ring is worn out. |
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I surprised to hear the o-ring would be a deficient solution, since BCM threw in one for free with my purchase of one of their bolts. No one has said a bad word about them. Anyhow, do you just put the o-ring down and re-install the extractor...compressing it all down? The o-ring didn't seem to fit over the spring (with blue insert). |
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This is a extractor guide for OEM, USGI, Colt, FN, etc, has nothing to do with cheapo look alike parts. The extractor buffer is a buffer for the extractor spring. It is not a color coded spring identifier, that is why it is called a buffer rather then a color coded spring identifier. The original idea was to extend extractor spring life. For example, in December of 1965 a lot of 4,800 rifles was almost rejected because one had a extractor spring break during a endurance test (508 RFW-122).  From left to right: original spring 1959-1971 white buffer 1972-?? red buffer ??-1982 blue A2 buffer 1982-1993 or so black buffer 1994-current (still in use on M16A3 and A4) black buffer with M4 gold spring 2003-current SOPMOD O-ring Extractor springs are the same for USGI rifles/Carbines other then the original spring, and the new M4 gold spring. The black buffer is demonstratively stiffer then a black one. Here is a blue A2 buffer compared to a black one:  Pic by CJan_NH. Here are some measurements I took with my trigger pull gauge. This is what the gauge read for the weight needed to get the extractor fully extended: long spring, no buffer: 4.0 lbs White buffer: 3.0 lbs Red buffer: 3.5 lbs Blue buffer: 2.25 lbs 2.5 lbs Black buffer used on M4's, and the M16A4: 3.5 lbs (well worn M4A1) 4.0 lbs (brand new M16A4) 2.25 lbs (well worn M4A1) Black buffer, with gold spring as used on late M4's: could not get a good reading, kinda stiff ya know, well over 5.0 lbs Black buffer, with standard spring, and SOPMOD O-Ring: could not get a good reading, well over 7 lbs on a well worn M4A1 These are not real scientific, too small a sample. There is some debate in regards to when the blue buffer was introduced. In regards to the SOPMOD bolt upgrade kit, this was a Band-Aid for the old M4A1 extractor set up, that is the black buffer and silver spring. Due to the location of the gas port on the M4/A1 some of them had extraction problems (had one myself). Colt's had developed the specific gold spring and black buffer for the M4/A1 to address this, but the Big Army did not want to add another part to the system (gold spring). So SOPMOD came out with the doughnut to fix it. Since then Big Army has approved Colt's gold spring set up, and M4/A1's are now delivered with them, and I would not think the SOPMOD kit is needed on these. |
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