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Posted: 4/14/2008 2:27:49 PM EDT
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Hi all! I need to find some pictures of the original, first generation USGI M4 Carbines. I'm thinking of putting together an accurate reproduction, so a parts listing would be helpful too. |
It was an exact copy of a rifle that Colt made for a middle eastern country, can't remember which one. First batch of M4s delivered to US military were basically just M16A2 upper and lower with the 14.5" M4 barrel, old style CAR stock and updated markings on the lower. They might have had 4 position receiver extensions but I'm not sure. Not the real thing, but here's the clone I built once upon a time: 
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The M4A1 carbine that we got issued during early 95 and the following features. Removeable carrying handle (don't remember if the evalation wheel was 8/3 or 6/3) Safe, Semi, Auto 14.5" chrome lined bbl, A2 FH Double Heat shield hand guards Side Sling mount 4 pos stock older CAR type A2 pistol grip Fenced lower and brass deflector on upper CD |
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There was supposed to be like 2,000 fixed handled M4 Carbines issued out, in say late 1994. It is mentioned in BRII. I never found any documentation, or photographs to substantiate this. The closest I can find are Colt Model 727 M16A2 carbines, and the Navy bought several thousand of those in the late 1980’s. These are currently being updated to M4 or M4A1 configuration. |
Standard M16A2 upper gets it 
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The first M4 carbine i ever owned has A2 style upper skinny CAR handguards, 14.5inch barrel with the M4 profile barrel, chrome lined M16 carrier charging handle A2 flash hider Marked CMP 1/7 5.56...some thing else I can remember.... It did not have the following M4 feed ramp, it had standard feed ramp side sling swivel F mark front sight. It is an exact copy of the Dubai gun...I had it back in 1989. I had it mounted on a Colt AR15 lower pre-1989 ban of course. CAR stock and A2 grip. ARMS A@ handle mount with two rings holding an Aimpoint 5000. surefire 6P with a barrel clamp. barrel lengthen with a DTM mill brake...sigh..OLD SCHOOL LOL |
| If you can get a copy of the reference "Black Rifle II", it includes a chapter on the XM4/M4 with a lot of photos. It states that only one production of fixed handle production M4s was produced and that in 1992 the flat top version(s) were introduced, one retaining the M4 designation with a burst fire control, and the second, the M4A1, with full auto. Shipments of these configurations started in 1994. |
Detailed description and parts break down for Colt carbines: jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=296919 The carbine you ask about is not described in that I have found no evidence that it exists. |
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This is a Colt Model 727 M16A2 Carbine: groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VABMGIEaUIPb0pIBLaGJrivhm1JIcIrSnohPK7D5U7OaSu6dzD44IldFlQR59ivkMpyN4GSN5kqiXKSRTl0T8RU1QHROH4l85VMYg9oUzdkZjFdMVTGxIwUQCqjhz7bm/Recon.jpg?dc=4675362117540332316 The is a experimental only Colt Model 720 XM4: groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VgDfDigbHLza9XvH0Fzy3C8yN1LhYktfO0h!cRdDVgSQ4tJKEfzr5CS9ymnQK7vBeMOB0gILVRKttIU0HNqNDQclyNSBGXUNRgH9M*J6LQ9vzEUWWiiOjKfQVkCmpqlv/earlyM4.jpg?dc=4675362120544073370 And this is a standard USGI M4 or M4A1: groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WADsHQ4c*QkctwkuAN51nObBQbpsanIZXNF5zui!s3zSOmn3kegYdk*sxW4YHinRO2EfgtoBhRCAFwuQVuo!l1ur9NTjlH6YBDgX5Q4x6bjiccrU!LVWGq5icKBrhMWudgAAAP****8/currentM4.jpg?dc=4675362120541762042 |
It looks like the 727 used the CAR handguards rather than the M4 handguards...would that be correct? |
Yes, the standard carbine handguards. My understanding is that the last year or so of production Colt offered M4 handguards on the 727 as an option. |
| What about the SEAL hybrid models with 653 carbine lowers and telestock and M4 fixed handle uppers.I have a book on Seals by hans halberstadt..page 98,99 has a great pic of a fixed handle M4/M203 older grey color,old castle nut and regualr carbine handguard,flash hider is timed so the closed bottom is on top. |
The first Army issued M4 operator's manual shows the M4 with a fixed A2 carry handle. The M4A1 is shown as having a flattop. The NSN listed for the M4 in that manual is the same exact NSN as the current M4 with flattop. If these were ever issued, I am sure they have been retrofitted by now...... |
Correct, however the XM16E1 manual has pictures of AR-15 rifles (Model 601) in it, don't mean they were ever issued to the Army. Optimally the manual is in print before the product is in production. I would have to go back and look, but at the front it should have a date for when the M4 was added to it, and I bet it was something like 1992.
“Abu Dhabi Carbine” is at best slang for a Colt M16A2 Carbine Model 727.
The Navy purchased several thousand Model 727 carbines in the late 1980's, and the Navy SEALs were a high profile user of these carbines until they got thier M4 carbines. Some early Model 727 carbines had an aluminum buttstock and a A2 lower machined out of a A1 lower forging. Don’t have a copy of that book, but here are some good pictures of an early Model 727 with an A1 lower forging: www.autoweapons.com/photos05/may/952m16.html |
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