AR Sponsor
Posted: 1/29/2008 8:06:21 PM EDT
|
Okay. Lately I've been thinking about selling my FS2000 so that I can build a new AR. There is no way I can get the funds for this build with out selling it, just ask my wife. I've been thinking about the fact that another AWB may be just around the corner. Now I love the look of the FS2k, but If I ever needed a rifle in a pinch (SHTF) I would always choose my main AR. And I would feel more comfortable with having easy access to parts and having another gun that takes the same parts as my others, so I can stock up on common parts. So I have some questions for you guys. What im looking at building is a Recce style rifle (I really liked the pic thread on here about them) I would be starting out with a RRA Car 4, and would want a rifle in the end thats accurate and that would handle all standard and surplus ammo. (im not going strictly 223). Now I've built AR's before, just standard ones and I dont know too much about the different barrels, or specialized accessories. I do know chrome lined is good and what I prefer, but how much different is the stainless? 1. Should I sell the FS2000 and build the Recce 2. Should I go with their stainless barrel 1:8 twist or chrome moly 1:9, or do you have a better option? Keep in mind I will be shooting 55 and 62 grain bullets, and maybe if I can ever afford it some BH. 3. Who makes a low profile gas block that will allow a 12" rifle length quad rail to be installed over the top. 4. Im looking at a TA-31F ACOG to mount on it, What do you guys think? BUIS are for a later day, Cause I think that just getting the basic rifle, quad rail, gas block, vortex flash hider, and ACOG would drain all my funds and then some. Lets hear your words of wisdom. Any help would be great. thanks |
|
The Reece by definition is supposed to be an accurate 16" carbine. CMMG CL barrels though reliable will not meet your accuracy expectations. If you want to co CL, I suggest getting an LMT or Denny's Operator. If stainsless I would go Lilja, Krieger, or Obermeyer cut from a .224 rifle blank. The original ones from Crane were carbine 1/8 Lilja barrels with carbine gas system with a fixed FSB. I have seen pictures of some from from a co-worker who just recently retired from the using organization. His and his units had a flat top with and a short A1 style stock. Optics varied, but his had a TA31F style scope. I personally don't know why people get so wrapped around the axle about this rifle. They have tools availble that put these tools to shame. Like tools from HK and some other company's that you never even heard about or seen picturs of. |
| I just finished a recce type build and I went with a complete Larue Stealth upper which has a stainless 16" barrel with a 1:8 twist. From all reports this barrel should delivery very good accuarcy, but it is pretty heavy as most precision stainless barrels will be. My 6920 with a DD Omega rail, Bobro VG and Aimpoint M4 feels down right svelte compared to my recce rifle which has the same stock, grip and BUIS as the Colt. |
|
What's wrong with your carbine as it is? Are you wanting something for SHTF, or for paper punching duties? More than likely, your present carbine in it's stock form can be very accurate, if you just add the ACOG and the right ammo, it will perform very well. I have a recce, and even though it's very nice, I have a hard time looking at it as a SHTF weapon, for some reason. Mostly because I don't have an acog but a big 3 x 9 in a Larue mount, and it's accuracy is best realized with a bipod or sandbags. Although being accurate while standing doesn't hurt either. But either way, it makes it a heavy package. If I added a light for SHTF it would make it that much heavier. I think a carbine with an ACOG is probably about the best SHTF set up you could get. Or maybe an Aimpoint instead. But most AR's are very accurate already, it's just most people don't take the time to find out what ammo it likes. After saying all that, recce's are very cool though. Got any pics of your set up now? Plus, you admitted that you are going to "afford" black hills ammo all the time. If it was me, I'd just buy good ammo for your carbine now, find out what it likes and if you have money for the ACOG, too, go for it. If you're just wanting to build a recce for having a recce, then my advice is silly. |
Final thoughts - As far as staying on budget, spend money were it counts but don't get suckered into spending more then is reasonable to get the job done. Examples.. 1. Don't buy Billet receivers when standard forged receivers cost much less and work just as well. 2. Don't spend $50 on a Vortex FH when it's only fractionally better at reducing flash then the $25 Phantom FH. 3. I'm sure Noveske makes some very nice barrels but unless your a top level shooter or better, I doubt you will see any difference between a Noveske barrel and a more reasonably priced barrel like WOA. Don't forget about getting a decent trigger and don't forget the EE can be your friend when it comes to finding some good deals on parts  Good luck and post pics when you're done! |
| Thanks guys. I am looking at the Recce because my current rifle is starting to get pretty old, has a lot of rounds through it, and mostly because I want to build a rifle that has the capabilities that I want in it. I love the look of the recce's. plus I like the idea of having the ability to extend your range a bit and still be accurate. Yes this would be one of my SHTF rifles, my others being my M4 Bushmaster with an Aimpoint, and my NM M1A. And no I would not be able to buy Black Hills all the time, just once in a while. |
If you are going to still use it as a plinker and feeding it crap ammo. I would go LMT or Denny's operator to get around 10K out of the barrel while retaining MOA accuracy capability. Otherwise you are limited to 3.5 ~ 4K out of stainless barrels before the throat starts to burn out. It's a waste of money to go with a match barrel and feed it crap ammo. You won't tell the difference between a good barrel and a OK barrel with crap ammo anyway. |
|
I do have to say. Mine shoots WWB very, very well. Q3131,3131A, and the old VP's. Easily 2MOA 5 shot groups. But shoots better ammo better. I didn't realize your CAR was getting old. Yeah, give it an overhaul!!!!!! I would highly recommend a WOA barrel. I might suggest getting some flutes cut in it. Mine isn't all that heavy, but to me, the lighter the better. Another thing you could do if you were gonna try and do it more cost effective is get one of those RRA / Wilson M4 barrels, put a low gas block on it and mount it under a FF tube. I would think it would give you pretty decent accuracy. I think most AR barrels are capable of good accuracy. But some are less picky than others. My colt 20" A2 is VERY picky. It shoots Black Hills 52's, 68's, 75's and 77's pretty darn good, 1.5-2 MOA but it just hates most low buck loads. I'll get like 4-6 MOA with WWB, and I had some adcom and it threw it out at a whopping 7 MOA. It's very picky. I think the higher quality barrel, the more consistent it will be. |
SHTF = CARBINE  Best Home and Self protection would be a 10.5 12.5 would be even better all round barrel Us CIVI`S wont be shooting past 100 yards ammo 5.56mm 75gr TAP I AGREE WITH JJREA most AR15`s can shoot under 2inch at 100yards with good ammo I have a LMT Defender 2000 M4 14.5 barrel and I get ragged hole group useing good ammo |
|
Are you interested in a trade? I have a Recce style carbine that I've only function fired (40 rounds), it was perfect. The weapon is perfect, not a blemish on it. With the reprofiled barrel it balances very well. Specs: Adco 16" Wilson SS, Mid Length, 1/8, Wylde chamber reprofiled under the hand guard to .740 CMT A3 upper and bolt carrier group with Badger Ord. Tac Latch Troy rail system and BUIS, La Rue low profile gasblock, YHM Phantom FH Noveske N4 lower with RRA LPK, Ambi selector, KNS 2nd gen. pins, Magpul trigger guard,and OD Ergo grip Magpul CTR stock on a ACE Ltd 7 position RET Spectre 3 point sling Old pics, I've since added the OD green CTR stock and 2nd gen KNS pins.   If you're interested IM me. I can send you a current pic after SHOT. The Acog stays with me. |
| Thats a sweet rifle. What model ACOG do you have on it? I am currenly looking at the 31F. I would love a rifle like that, but on limited funds I dont know. Right now Im thinking about building the upper and throwing it on my bushmasters lower. The one thing that I really want to get with the funds is the ACOG. Im not one on throwing crappy rounds through the gun (wolf), I use only brass cased ammo, yes I will use the cheap brass cased ammo. My SHTF ammo is mostly SS109, with a little 55 grain in the mix (SA battlepacks). But yes this gun will see a lot of rounds through it, well if the price of ammo ever goes down. Currently my Bushmaster has between 10 - 20k trough it. |
Here are a few pics of the Rifle I have now. Bushmaster M4 Olymic free float No name BUIS (I hate this sight, need a folding sight) Aimpoint M3 4 MOA (really big dot at longer ranges, thats why im thinking ACOG) Surefire weapon light The lower is off my first AR that I bought back during the ban, its origanal configuration was a 20" A2 with no flash hider or bayonet lug. During the ban I picked up an old Colt SP1 and built an M4 out of it using a new Bushmaster upper and DPMS lower parts kit (dont worry I didnt ruin a factory SP1, someone had already done that for me, I purchased it just for the lower). As soon as the ban sunset I swapped the M4 parts over to my Bushmaster lower.   Now dont get me wrong, This has been an amazing rifle and I will always keep it, It has had a lot of rounds through it. Im just looking to build a new go to gun, and its always fun to build AR's. |
|
Nice! My point was, with optics and the right ammo, you'll probably realize the kind of accuracy you were looking for, as long as the barrel isn't shot out. Which it probably isn't. But, there's nothing wrong with building a new one, eh? What are you gonna do with that barrel if you get a new one? Or were you gonna use it? You could get a FF rail and a low gas block and just use that barrel. But, a brand spanking new recce type barrel wouldn't be a bad thing either. My WOA is a very good barrel. ADCO built my upper. |
Im going to keep anything I take off as spare parts, you never know when you will need them. The barrel is still good. Right now Im thinking that I will just build a new complete upper in a Recce style, save the old one and get another complete lower later when I have the cash. Although I am also thinking about keeping the Bushmaster as is and taking my stock DPMS M4 and using its lower. |
|
I would sell the FS2000 in a heartbeat, but that's just me. for my recce I went with Adco's Mini Mod 1 upper, but with a rifle length handguard. WOA 1:7 twist stainless barrel, WOA upper and BCG, and Daniel Defense 12.0 rail. It was like $925 I think. optics are a TA-11F ACOG with Troy BUIS; lower is a standard Armalite with RRA NM trigger and M93B stock. overall the carbine is very accurate, easily MOA or less with my 77gr BTHP reloads, extremely well balanced, and reasonable weight. I could have spent more going with an MSTN or Noveske configuration but what I have is accurate enough (meaning more accurate than I can shoot it). I've owned both the TA-11 and the TA-31 and IMO for this type of rifle the TA-11 is the better choice, albeit slightly more expensive new and harder to find used. pics (I no longer use the VFG):   |
Okay, Who is WOA? and how is the TA-11 different than the TA-31F? I dont know much about the different configs of the ACOG's |
| WOA = white oak armament Here. They make barrels for alot of other companies that you see. Not sure about the ACOG's |
| the TA-11 is a bit heavier/larger than the -31. also the magnification is 3.5X vs 4X. but the big difference is the eye relief: 2.5" for the TA-11 and 1.5 for the TA-31. This means that the TA-11 is much more forgiving of unusual positions, you can see more around the optic (the FOV on the TA-31 is larger so you see more *through* it). it's just all around faster for action-type shooting. |
Okay whos CMT? Ive heard of a lot of the different brands... But CMT? |
Hey man what kind of buffer tube is that? I see it looks marked, very cool!!!! I love that rifle, and I bet it looks alot cooler now with a CTR 
|
There is your answer right there. A good carbine with an ACOG on it is hard to beat. As for the CMMG barrel, whoever said it is not that accurate is crazy, they are damn accurate. I was very suprised by the accuracy I get out of mine, and yes, you should take the time, just as JJREA stated to see what your rifle shoots best. I reload my own and I developed loads for my rifles. It takes time but it is very much worth it to see what your rifle will do better with.  
|
AR Sponsor