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Posted: 12/29/2007 6:02:02 AM EDT
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I am looking at the Rock River Predator or varmint rifles. .223 caliber. 1in 8 twist rate. 62 grain ammo, Bushnell 4200 Elite 6-24X scope. What accuracy can I expect at 600 yards, figuring little wind?????????? I know a heavier bullet may be in order, but I don't have any yet. I want to shoot up to about 75 grain ammo. Thanks Good Shootin!! DarryH Nebraska |
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Dude, every barrel is prejudiced. You may buy that stuff and find out it shoots it well. You may buy that stuff and find that it shoots it terrible. Before you buy 500 rounds and expect to get great results at 600 yards, find out what you barrel likes at 100 or 200. This is true with any rifle. If it shot it well enough once you tested it, I wouldn't have any qualms about putting that weight ammo at 600 yards. There are definitely better choices, but it could be done. Especically if your just aiming at big targets and you got glass. |
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My experience with a 7" twist in my national match upper is that it won't accurately shoot anything shorter than the 69 gr. BTHP beyond about 400 yards. I like to shoot flat base soft point hunting bullets at shorter ranges and practice, but I think my 7" twist overstabilizes the short bullets because it will create a "Halo" effect on the target at long range making it IMPOSSIBLE to hit the center. Interesting is that it will flat-out drill holes with the 75 gr. Hornady or the 80 gr. Sierra at these longer distances. Difference is night and day. Just something for you to interpret. time to experiment. Try your projectile and fire enough to notice the patterns it creates, but also try the 80 gr. Sierra. it's a tough bullet which will not deform or create too many unknown fliers. You will, of course, single feed these rounds. Your 8" twist will probably be much friendlier to you than my 7". Try to interpret your results as compared to mine. Many like Varget, I like Varget but also prefer IMR4064 because it is cleaner. |
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16inch 1-8 Twist Lilja Barrel, 69grain and 77grain SMKs, 1-4x SFP Meopta Scope with 29.5 clicks elevation, I was making repetable, consistent hits @ 650 yards on a "half man sized" silhoutte. The measurements would have been just under and at MOA. Good barrel, good ammo, consistent trigger pull and breathing makes long shots @ 650 easier. While having a thick ass, heavy varmint barrel is always good, it definitely isn't needed. A fellow shooter going to it on my rifle: 
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so a 12 percent (roughly) difference makes a fool? I know nothing about hand loading. So I hesitate to judge anyone, but really? 62 grains makes a fool, but just 13 more grains is A OK? |
I think it depends on how small of groups you're wanting. The marines shoot at 500 meters with M855. It's a pretty big target, but they hit it. Calling it foolish is IMHO a little strong. |
| the farther out you get the more stability you need that bullet to handle, and while barrels are prejudice heavier bullets do carry more mass and will hold a better trajectory the farther out you go. I would not say 62 grn is foolinsh at 600 yards, but if I had the option in a match I would go into the 70's |
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With my M1 Garand, prone at 600 yards, I can keep most of my shots in the 9 ring, with an accasional slip into the 7 or 8 ring. This means my groups run about 8-12 inches. Yes, I do hit the 10 ring too, just not as often as I would like. This is with a stock, WWII dated Garand, and military ball ammo. I won't say I am satisfied with those groups, but I am 47, not in the best shape any more, and I had not shot that gun in at least 10 years. All considered, not too bad. The weight of the gun ruins my off-hand shots. I can keep it steady for about 6 shots before the barrel starts moving around a lot. I know physical conditioning can help a lot, but I a lso have back problems that limits my ability to exercise effectively. My shoulder throbs from the weight of the gun before I can finish an off-hand string. The trip home in the truck is no fun at all!!!!! I am looking at The Rock River Predator Pursuit rifle. It has a 20" heavy barrel. The weight is supposed to be about 8 pounds without a scope. I am worried that might be about a pound too heavy. I have a set of Warne extra high rings, plus a Bushnell 4200 Elite scope. The gun also comes with a National Match 2 stage trigger. I am wondering if a lighter, fluted 24" barrel would make more sense???? It might be getting too front heavy for my shoulder. If there were more gun shops around I could try these guns out for feel. The closer I can keep the weight of the gun to the rear, the better I will be for my shoulder. I am really appreciating all the input. I only want to buy one more AR, so I want to make sure it is the right one for the job, for me. Good Shootin!! DarryH Nebraska |
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You are claiming you get better than 2 MOA with your Garand and ammo. If you get that on a regular basis, you are shooting pretty darn good and I'm totally skeptical. I'm not saying it's not true. But that is a pretty bold claim. Will a decked out AR shoot that good. Probably. Will it with just surplus ammo. Probably not. I personally haven't seen Garands shoot that good on a regular basis with surplus ammo either. I get the occaisional really good groups with my Garand. But 3-4 MOA at 100 yards is usually the norm. |
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During the last match, I was teamed with a retired Col. He commented on how accurate my M1 was. It is very tight. The gun was made in 1945, and never issued. It was sold through the DCM a long time ago. Off-hand......I have missed the entire target. NOT OFTEN! I do not have much consistency off-hand. Prone I do very well, not even too bad in rapid fire, although in rapid fire I sometimes send shots to the 6 ring. I should note, at the previous match I was using a 1903MKI Springfield. It is all matching. I shot a better off-hand string than I did a sitting string. I never have cared much for peep sights at long range. I actually shoot my Krag rilfe better due to it's very fine sights. I do not recall what TARGETS we are using. They are very large, and are set in frames in target pits. I do not call my shooting good compared to others out there. A couple guys with AR's take matches regularly. I have been it the pits and marked scores. Some of their 600 yard groups are 4-6 inches. They are using optics. The Col.'s M1A shoots great, and even though he is older than me by a ways, he shoots pretty darned good. His groups are better than mine. Sorry if you can't believe it, but I have been shooting for over 42 years. I have learned a few things, and sent many many rounds down range in all sorts of guns. I especially like military and cowboy guns. If you are ever in the Omaha, Nebraska area on a Thursday morn, stop out. They welcome everyone. Good Shootin!! DarryH Nebraska |
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I can't shoot at 600 anymore. Too many miles, too many cups of coffee, too much sugar, too much avois dupois. At that, I was never worth much with 5.56. There was only 55 gr. when I was shooting seriously in the 80s. Nowadays 300 is max. I accept that and am good with it. I'll stretch beyond, but only with my 7.62s and only with a scope. |
DCM issued some great Garands, when great Garands could be had at a good price. The Garand is an accurate rifle, when wood lockup is tight. Several HMs I know earned their HM using Garands off the rack in the early and mid-1950's. I have a Garand that was military overhauled in 1964, and partially bedded (pillar bedded), and honestly shoots 0.75-1 MOA with 168 grain Sierra and IMR-4895 powder at a mid-range load. The Garand can be built to shoot that well on a fairly regular basis, but finding someone who can do the work is difficult: time passes, and they get old or die. I learned how to build the Garand and the M14/M1A, but no one shoots those much in competition anymore. The AR is king now; it is a straight-forward, easy rifle to make it shoot 1 MOA, and good positioning is not needed for good groups. The AR can be driven where the bullet needs to go, but .30 cal rifles cannot. It is an easy rifle to teach others to shoot. 600 yard accuracy can be obtained with the AR, but, as some stated before, not with issue ammo. 68 grain and higher hold much higher hit probability. I prefer the Sierra 68 grain or 80 grain over the 77 grain. I have not had much luck getting the Sierra 77 grain to group much under 0.75 MOA: I get better performance from the Hornady 75 grain bullets. Accuracy rests in the three B's: barrel, bullet, brass...in that order. |
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