AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/17/2007 10:07:03 PM EDT
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As someone who has been firing an AR-10 for years, let me just say ..... how does one become use, familar, at ease, conditioned, whatever, to using the forward assist on the AR-15? __________________________________________ ("Having received all your letters over the years, and I've spoken to many of you, and some of you have traveled... y'know... hundreds of miles to be here, I'd just like to say... GET A LIFE!",--Shatner, (wtte), SNL) |
Now thats just dam funny |
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The FA is basically useless. It can be used for setting the bolt in quietly, or to properly seat the first chambered round, but it was originally designed as a halfass solution to a real problem. During vietnam with all the ammunition problems and fouling in M16s, rounds would sometimes not chamber properly, so they devised the forward assist to force cartridges in, which, imo, is a bad idea if they don't already feed properly on their own. Now its just a vestigial part that persists in the modern design (at least some companies are beginning to offer recievers without, like sun devil & vltor). You can push the bolt in with your finger on the smooth cut out of the carrier as a means to silently chamber or seat a round. You don't need to crank it in with a FA. |
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The forwrd assist is useful in this purpose other semi rifles have a forward assist in the form of a cocking handle attached to the bolt carrier FAL (excluded ) When the Army began to improve the m-16 to the m16a1 they decided to add a forward assist It is simple to use cheap to add and makes the rifle more soldier proof USE of FA: Sports: slap, pull, observe, release, TAP, squeeze to quietly load a round (as others have said in this thread) to get the bolt forward incase of mag failure in spring common malfunction the FA is not needed in benchrest shooting or plinking much to train in its use just develope the habit to hit it if you want or learn when to use it by riding the bolt & CH forward on a loaded mag they will stick one tap to the FA will place the rifle in battery |
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Thanks all but that does bring up another question. Is the FA the alternative the slamming the butt against the deck (please don't burn me at the stake) when the bolt jams after a misfire? ___________________________________________________________ (After "Eagle Eye" Carter shoots his flamming arrow at the German ammo truck .... straight into the wall. "This is why stayed around so long to help the youngsters out."--Newkirk grabbing the arrow and completing the shot., (w,stte), "Hogan's Heros") |
The original AR-15 and M16 had no FA because no FA was needed. The FA came about when the fucking Army changed powder and didn't inform ArmaLite Stoner or Colt. A bunch of our guys were killed in Vietnam as a result and the FA was tacked on in reaction to that fiasco even though lack of an FA had nothing to do with said fiasco !! Now the chambers WERE finally chromed and the weapon re-designed to function with the change in powder. T Oh, the Marines accepted the FA on the condition that it would do no harm. The Air Force refused to accept the FA at all until they were no longer able to get the M16 without an FA. |
Negative the Army requested the FA BEFORE the powder issue - you can see it present on the XM16E1. They Ordenance Dept wanted a manual method of ensuring bolt closure - just like they had with the M1 Garand, the M1 carbine and the M14. The Army having almost 3 decades of experience with self loading individual weapons under combat conditions recognized the need for such a device. |
A Vietnam Veteran friend of mine told me of an incident where he used the forward assist in combat, and the pin broke off, hopelessly jamming the rifle. He couldn't even get the rifle apart to try and clear it! Not a good thing to happen to you in the middle of a fire fight. Luckily he survived, but no one in his unit ever touched the forward assist again. He said if the first round out of the mag was reluctant to chamber, just jack the charging handle again, and that would solve the problem. Its no big surprise that his personal AR is an SP1. |
We have had those people respond to these kinds of threads before. People who were trained to use the forward assist as a response, used the forward assist, and claimed it saved them. People who were trained to use another method used that other method, and claimed it saved them. None of these anecdotes are useful, in my opinion. Stories where soldiers used the method they were taught only to have it fail are much more informative, but much rarer. I would also implore any newbies to NOT try to learn any history of the forward assist from this thread. With the exception of Forest's post, everything so far is pretty inaccurate. |
Wrong Wrong Wrong The advent of the foward assit predates the M16 jamming problems by 3 years. |
I would think that the frequency of the stories of it working put against the rarity of the times it failed should tell you something right there, but hey, what actualy happens in real life is useless to you I guess. |
That's why you roll the weapon counter-clockwise and hit it with the left. Easy to get used to if you charge with the CH: blade or hook the CH with the left, roll the weapon, hit the FA on the way back. |
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Does anyone here press check their rifle? I did a press check the other day while preparing for a hostage situation and I was sure glad I did when I came face to face with the suspect who was holding a pistol and the hostage. (I am not the one who pulled the trigger story) When I pull the charging handle back a little to visually verify there is a round in the chamber, I then push the forward assist to make certain the bolt is fully seated. |
I have heard of this more than once. |
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My rule for the forward assist is thumb presure only keeping your strong hand on the grip. This keeps you from forcing something so hard you really fuck something up yet will let the bolt close if that is the only issue. If you need to smack it with your palm, you really need to cycle the action instead. |
I press check every time I load the rifle for the same reason. Out of every time I did a chamber check in Iraq press checking was needed about 80% of the time. I do it reguardless now. |
| i dont have the link; but did anyone see that video of the kaboom with that asshat at the range with an AR and it wouldnt fire and he kept palming the FA.... LMFAO what an asshat.. he was like i don why it happened .. well jerkoff maybe b/c you kept jamming new rounds into a blocked chamber with the FA dummy |
You have a point that the proof is in the pudding. I should clarify and state that such stories are not useful in proving the necessity of the forward assist. The fact that a rifle worked with a forward assist present is not proof that it would have failed were the forward assist absent. That is my point. What the-better-to-have-and-not-need crowd always fails to point out is that the forward assist adds four parts, about a quarter pound (I think; don't remember where I heard that) and 10% in cost to a rifle. This is not a trivial price to pay, and I would damn sure want to make certain that I gained something in return. I have not seen anything to convince me that is the case. |
Now that is a very valid and well argued point. Kudos. 
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Seeing that the need for one has arised in more than one instance during actual gunfights I would say the increase in cost would be worth it to give me something else to help me survive, thats just me though. Chances are you might not ever use it but my luck I would be the minority. You never need anything in a firefight unless yo do not have it. |
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