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4/26/2007 8:44:31 PM EDT
I just picked up my new toy, a Colt AR15 model 614, with what looks like the original 20 inch upper.  The sale also included a non-Colt A2 style shorty upper, with bolt and carrier.

Now after looking at the carrier and bolt that are in the A2 non-Colt upper, I wonder if they actually belongs in the original Colt upper.

The carrier that is in the original upper does not have forward assist notches, which I assume is correct, but it does not have any Colt markings.

The carrier and bolt that are in the non-Colt upper have the correct forward assist notches, but they have what look to be Colt markings.

I would like to take off all the original parts, and just run the aftermarket upper, so what do you guys think?

First a few pics of the gun.
[http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3028/colt614001tx1.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9061/colt614006js2.jpg


And now pics of the carrier and bolt with the forward assist notches that are in the non-colt A2 style upper.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1702/colt614017mr7.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1439/colt614021pb1.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/502/colt614014fv5.jpg

Here is a pic of the non-colt upper.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/791/colt614012bm6.jpg

And here is a pic of the carrier/bolt that has no markings and no forward assist notches.
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7289/colt614018go6.jpg

Basically, I am wondering if the Colt marked carrier and bolt with the forward assist notches actually belongs in the original upper.
4/27/2007 1:29:19 AM EDT
[#1]
You would be better served posting this in the M16 forum

ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=123
4/27/2007 1:43:18 AM EDT
[#2]
take a look here also

AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
4/27/2007 1:54:15 AM EDT
[#3]
I believe the upper without forward assist/bolt with forward assist is correct.
The Model 614 was the export version of the Model 604, which was produced for the USAF without the forward assist.
4/27/2007 2:44:21 AM EDT
[#4]
i don't believe that neither one of the bolt carriers are original to the 20" upper because they are both full auto/m-16 bolt carriers.
dennis
4/27/2007 3:56:17 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
i don't believe that neither one of the bolt carriers are original to the 20" upper because they are both full auto/m-16 bolt carriers.
dennis


 Why wouldn't an M16 carrier be original to an M16?  Look closely, that aint no SP1.

~Augee

Sorry, but I can't help with the OP's question!
4/27/2007 3:57:51 AM EDT
[#6]
wheezy, did you buy this as an M16 on Form-4? that lower looks like its an NFA lower with full-auto sear pin. If so how much was it?

There are a lot of lowers that say Colt AR15 on them but are pre-86 registered NFA machine guns.
4/27/2007 4:08:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Your smooth carrier is probably correct for you gun.  The later carrier is a modern Colt piece.

Can you take a picture of the top of your smooth carrier.  Your bolt should be marked MP, not MPC if it is correct.

Your gun is 1967 vintage.

If it was later, then it would use a notched carrier even though it still doesn't have a foward assit.
4/27/2007 6:47:13 AM EDT
[#8]
The marked bolt group looks to be about circa 1995 (Scott, take a look at the bolt lug cuts).

The bolt group that has the non notched carrier would most likely be 1966 or 67.  Bolt should be marked MP.  For at least part of 1965 Colt still used quite a few chrome parts on the non notched full auto bolt groups, ulike the SP1 and the XM16E1 which transitioned to park the year earlier.

Barrel should be marked MP on the side, and a 12 on the muzzle.

Your lower has a mag button fense, and that combined with the bolt group dates it to 1967.  Serial number would be in the 400,000-7XX,XXX range (this range ran out of sequance).
4/27/2007 7:00:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Either way it's a beauty
4/27/2007 7:07:20 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
The marked bolt group looks to be about circa 1995 (Scott, take a look at the bolt lug cuts).



I new that.  It looks just like mine.  I was just saying it was much later than the gun.


Your lower has a mag button fense, and that combined with the bolt group dates it to 1967.  Serial number would be in the 400,000-7XX,XXX range (this range ran out of sequance).


I wasn't even thinking.  Yes it dates from 1967.
4/27/2007 12:25:33 PM EDT
[#11]
What a beauty!  If I ever hit the lottery.....
4/27/2007 12:45:22 PM EDT
[#12]



My 1973 sp1 No m-16 carrier w/notches.
4/27/2007 1:20:28 PM EDT
[#13]
augee,
you are right,my bad. i'm so used to looking at semiautos on arfcom that i overlooked the obvious.
dennis
4/27/2007 1:43:26 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The marked bolt group looks to be about circa 1995 (Scott, take a look at the bolt lug cuts).



I new that.  It looks just like mine.  I was just saying it was much later than the gun.



Was wanting to point out to you specifically the variation in the bolt lug cuts.  Have not seen that type of cut on a Colt bolt before, besides Diemaco.
4/27/2007 1:48:58 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
The marked bolt group looks to be about circa 1995 (Scott, take a look at the bolt lug cuts).



I new that.  It looks just like mine.  I was just saying it was much later than the gun.



Was wanting to point out to you specifically the variation in the bolt lug cuts.  Have not seen that type of cut on a Colt bolt before, besides Diemaco.


You mean those scalop cuts?  I've never seen them either until today.
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 2:50:01 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#16]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
The marked bolt group looks to be about circa 1995 (Scott, take a look at the bolt lug cuts).



I new that.  It looks just like mine.  I was just saying it was much later than the gun.



Was wanting to point out to you specifically the variation in the bolt lug cuts.  Have not seen that type of cut on a Colt bolt before, besides Diemaco.


You mean those scalop cuts?  I've never seen them either until today.


You thinking subcontractor?
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 2:52:52 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#17]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                I own a 614 as well - a great "value" of the Colt's - an M-16 in all but rollmarks. And yours looks to be in great shape.

Looks to me the bolts are switched. if the smooth BCG is marked MP and not MPC, it is probably the original 614 bolt. 
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 3:14:49 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#18]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                

Quoted:
I just picked up my new toy, a Colt AR15 model 614, with what looks like the original 20 inch upper.  The sale also included a non-Colt A2 style shorty upper, with bolt and carrier.

Now after looking at the carrier and bolt that are in the A2 non-Colt upper, I wonder if they actually belongs in the original Colt upper.

The carrier that is in the original upper does not have forward assist notches, which I assume is correct, but it does not have any Colt markings.

The carrier and bolt that are in the non-Colt upper have the correct forward assist notches, but they have what look to be Colt markings.

I would like to take off all the original parts, and just run the aftermarket upper, so what do you guys think?

First a few pics of the gun.
[img217.imageshack.us/img217/3028/colt614001tx1.jpg
img217.imageshack.us/img217/9061/colt614006js2.jpg


And now pics of the carrier and bolt with the forward assist notches that are in the non-colt A2 style upper.

img217.imageshack.us/img217/1702/colt614017mr7.jpg
img217.imageshack.us/img217/1439/colt614021pb1.jpg
img217.imageshack.us/img217/502/colt614014fv5.jpg

Here is a pic of the non-colt upper.
img217.imageshack.us/img217/791/colt614012bm6.jpg

And here is a pic of the carrier/bolt that has no markings and no forward assist notches.
img87.imageshack.us/img87/7289/colt614018go6.jpg

Basically, I am wondering if the Colt marked carrier and bolt with the forward assist notches actually belongs in the original upper.



I own the same gun . I bought in 1996 from armex out of california police trade in. $2295.00  The bolt carrier is the one that came with the gun , most companies didn't make m16 bolt carriers with out the notches. I built mine into an a2 , total rebuild got the parts kit from autoweapons.com  . They are the gray color uppers matches very well !! enjoy 
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 3:17:09 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#19]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                By the way what did you pay for your new toy?
                    
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 6:12:28 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#20]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                I think I got a pretty good deal at $12,000.00, I will post some more pictures of the carrier/bolt later tomorrow. By the way I belive that it is a fairly early model, the serial number is 208,xxx.
Thanks for all the helpful information
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 6:21:10 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#21]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                Oh, and here are a few of the barrel markings that are on the original upper.
Ekie, you are exactly right about the barrel.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6344/colt614004xj8.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2571/colt614005ox8.jpg

And one more of the receiver.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5207/colt614002eo3.jpg
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 6:58:15 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#22]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                Could be a Diemaco produced for Colt if you have seen the scallops on other Diemaco bolts.
                    
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 8:08:45 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#23]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                

Quoted:
Could be a Diemaco produced for Colt if you have seen the scallops on other Diemaco bolts.


were they doing that back in 1967?
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 8:53:38 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#24]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                

Quoted:
Could be a Diemaco produced for Colt if you have seen the scallops on other Diemaco bolts.


Not sure, but yes Diemaco bolts are like that.


Quoted:

Quoted:
Could be a Diemaco produced for Colt if you have seen the scallops on other Diemaco bolts.


were they doing that back in 1967?


No, Canada did not get their license until the 1980's.  Or do you mean subcontracting bolts?  That would also be a no, Colt made their own bolts in 1967.  Earliest I knew of colt subcontracting bolts was in this decade.
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 9:07:36 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#25]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                

Quoted:

Quoted:
Could be a Diemaco produced for Colt if you have seen the scallops on other Diemaco bolts.


were they doing that back in 1967?


The bolt with the

MP
C 

marking is what we think might be Diemaco.  It is unrelated to the 614. 
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
		

        
    
    
    

        
        

            
            

                

                    
   		                    
                                
                            
                        
                     4/27/2007 9:45:50 PM EDT
                

                

                    
                        [#26]
                    
                

            


            

                

                    
                I would be happy to buy it off of you for $12,000 if your having buyers remorse. 
Just let me know if there is another one for sale legally.
                    		
                 

            


            

        		
             

        

    
   
    

		

		
    

    
	

    

    
	
	
	
    

        
        

            
        

    


	
    

        
           

            
            

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